Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[magiccannabus]

Just to make things a little more confusing, I was looking at this page from Advance Lighting and it shows that regular HPS are even less powerful in that 600-700 range.

SPD charts are misleading at first because they are relative charts. The HPS has a much higher yellow output, and that spike is so large that it makes the red look small, but it's still probably more red than the CMH of the same wattage. If they show the objective intensity on each chart, you can use that to adjust the graphs to overlap, but that'd be a lot of work.

 

[brotherjericho]

Well I just ordered one each of the 150w Philips. 3K and 4K. I am going to try the 4K for some time and switch out to the 3K in the future, try to compare results. It will not be scientific though, just general perceived results.

 

[rives]

Here is some spectral testing done on the Philips Agro lamp for Cycloptics by Utah State University. Cycloptics new luminaire for these just hit the market, but as you can see from the component costs in the above Amazon links, it is pretty spendy gear.

Spectral analysis

BrnCow, the lamp that you have linked on Amazon isn't the Agro. The Agro is a T12, and the one in the link is a T9, with a single jacket.

I've started piecing together components to put some lighting together with these. At this point, I haven't been able to find a source for either the PGZ18 (for the single-envelope T9) or the PGZX18 (for the double-envelope T12) lampholders. If anyone can point me toward a source, I would be grateful.

For anyone who might be interested in this gear, my Mitronics lampholders were delivered today and appear to be quality pieces. They are of domestic manufacture, cost is 1/3 to 1/4 the cost of the Italian or German components, and they have a minimum order of 10 rather than 50 or 100.

The Mitronics parts are the PGZ18 style, rather than the PGZX18, so they will accept both the single and double-jacketed lamps. As a result, they should only be used in enclosed fixtures.

 

[whazzup]

Gavita is testing the agro at the moment. Can't give you a lot of details about it as the lamp is not yet released (probably next year), but in general:

Biggest difference in spectrum we measured is indeed just the extra spike in red. So it looks like the CHM with just one extra chemical included to spike the red. It is noticeable more red.

Biggest disadvantage will be the costs: Being just 315W you need three times as many fixtures as the HPS and the Philips gear is expensive. As an alternative you can use them side by side as with MH, but then you don't need the extra red and can use the standard CMH. The lamp emits NO significant UVA or UVB.

 

[rives]

Gavita is testing the agro at the moment. Can't give you a lot of details about it as the lamp is not yet released (probably next year), but in general:

Biggest difference in spectrum we measured is indeed just the extra spike in red. So it looks like the CHM with just one extra chemical included to spike the red. It is noticeable more red.

Biggest disadvantage will be the costs: Being just 315W you need three times as many fixtures as the HPS and the Philips gear is expensive. As an alternative you can use them side by side as with MH, but then you don't need the extra red and can use the standard CMH. The lamp emits NO significant UVA or UVB.

Whazzup, I don't understand about the agro not being released yet - there are several US suppliers that I found that are listing it as being available. I have spoken several times with the president of Cycloptics about their new fixture which is now available for sale and comes with an agro lamp. They are currently looking at a different ballast manufacturer that is making some pretty extraordinary claims for light output and lamp longevity, and it appears that they may be able to get the price of the package down significantly. However, even with a price reduction, in order to hit similar wattage levels it will still be far more expensive than HPS.

 

[whazzup]

ehm... well.. try to buy one

I have seen suppliers advertising the Agro first in Europe but then delivering it with the standard CMH, not the agro. So if you can get them go for it and try them out.

I don't think it is good practice to promote something that is not there yet to sell. And yes, as you say, it has to be competitively priced. Fixtures in Europe cost about €750. that's a lot more than a Gavita pro 1000. For proven technology that price should be less. CMH is not so new anymore.

 

[rives]

The 315 watt CMH appear to be very new, actually. The latest Philips spec sheet that I saw on the agro is dated March 10, 2012, and the sheet for the CDM-TMW Elite 315w/930 is dated February 11, 2012. Cycloptics is currently shipping their gear, and offered to sell me the bare lamps. However, I found a killer deal on the 315w/930 T9 lamps for a fraction of retail price and couldn't pass it up, so it'll be a bit before I can check out the improved spectrum of the agro.

 

[whazzup]

315W CMH has been around for a while already. Maybe they are releasing the agro earlier in the US but that would surprise me. The data sheets are updated regularly, sometimes even get the date you downloaded them because they are generated. The US OEM guide was already available in 2008 and I believe they were already available much earlier. Since then the lamps have evolved a bit though (like all lamps).

 

[rives]

Interesting information, Wazzup. I checked the packaging on the 315w lamps that I bought and they have a manufacture date of August 2009. They sure haven't made many inroads on the US market for having been available that long - when I was looking for lampholders, I contacted a couple of my old suppliers that are pretty big in lighting in Northern California, and neither of them had ever heard of the 315w stuff before. Something that might be pertinent to a US release of the agro lamp - these lamps are stamped as being made in the US, which surprised me.

 

[whazzup]

the 315 is a relatively expensive lamp. For the 150 you can get an original Philips fixture including ballast in The Netherlands for about $120.

edit: ps needless to say these are designed for ornamental lighting, not for plant lighting and contain a magnetic ballast.

 

[brotherjericho]

So, who else makes 250w 4000k bulbs besides Philips? I have a 250w magnetic HPS ballast I've never used, and I recently changed my growing areas around. I had a small box for vegging and a small custom closet space for flowering. I could only fit 3 plants in the flower space very tightly, so I bought a Secret Jardin 2x2 and I'm putting the veg space in the previous flower space. I was vegging with a custom made fixture that held 4 55w PLL tubes, but the fixture will not fit in the new veg space, will either have to make something else or work with the 250w ballast.

 

[whazzup]

it's not about the color temperature. It's about the spectrum.

 

[brotherjericho]

it's not about the color temperature. It's about the spectrum.

Indeed, but if I knew who else made some, perhaps they would have information on their spectrums too...

 

[whazzup]

lots of companies, HERE is something to get you going

 

[brotherjericho]

lots of companies, HERE is something to get you going

Yes, I know about the regular probe and pulse models, looking for ceramic.

 

[Sphongle]

whats up! can someone point me in what direction where and what i should buy, really want a 400Watt digital ballast whit the CMH bulb. looked at some lumitek so far, seems to be good ballasts? very thankful PEACE

 

[rives]

whats up! can someone point me in what direction where and what i should buy, really want a 400Watt digital ballast whit the CMH bulb. looked at some lumitek so far, seems to be good ballasts? very thankful PEACE

As far as I know, GE is the only one that is making a digital ballast that is compatible with the 400 watt CMH lamps. Philips and one other company (Global Energy & Lighting) make them for the 315w lamps.

 

[Sphongle]

thanks for the info man, i got my info wrong about lumitek then.. is there no 250CMH bulbs? just to clearify, Magnetic ballast is the other ballast that run CMH? thanks again! peace

 

[magiccannabus]

Lifelight ballasts supposedly support 400W CMH

 

[rives]

thanks for the info man, i got my info wrong about lumitek then.. is there no 250CMH bulbs? just to clearify, Magnetic ballast is the other ballast that run CMH? thanks again! peace

Check here (link). I don't know about buying from them, the reports have been kind of spotty lately, but there is quite a bit of information on there. Yes, a magnetic ballast for a HPS is what would normally be used for the CMH lamps.