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SEAttown206
Member
OK to use?
OK to use?
Thanks for the tip on this deal, Azeotrope.... I ordered the 3-pack.
My only concern: I am planning to use in a Sun System 2 enclosed Fixture, Model #MH250. I purchased used, can't find decent spec sheet, even on Sunlight Supply site
From your post I'm quoting, I think I'm OK (not sure if probe or pulse start, but either works).... Only reason I am question this is because from early in CMH thread, says 250 & 400 need HPS ballast, being that they are a "retrofit" bulb?
If anyone else can answer this for me, please chime-in....
Thanks again, AZE....
SEA
OK to use?
Thanks for the tip on this deal, Azeotrope.... I ordered the 3-pack.
My only concern: I am planning to use in a Sun System 2 enclosed Fixture, Model #MH250. I purchased used, can't find decent spec sheet, even on Sunlight Supply site
From your post I'm quoting, I think I'm OK (not sure if probe or pulse start, but either works).... Only reason I am question this is because from early in CMH thread, says 250 & 400 need HPS ballast, being that they are a "retrofit" bulb?
If anyone else can answer this for me, please chime-in....
Thanks again, AZE....
SEA
SEAttown - You are good to go.... The 205w bulbs are part of their "all start" family. They will run a Pulse Start metal halide or a Probe Start metal halide which is what you have. On the probe start they take just a little longer to reach full output. Nothing that will affect your grow. You won't even notice..... Phaeton is correct, the RetroWhite's that this thread has largely revolved around are the "conversion" type meant for a HPS ballast. There are Pulse start only CMH bulbs as well.
My next will be the Philips CDM 315w Elite Agro. I can currently get the 315w Elite in 3000k or 4k for wholesale pricing of $78 each and the specific ballast (the only one that will run them) that is electronic/digital & dimable for $278 each. Google the Philips ColorMaster 315w CDM Elite. They are way loaded in the right areas of the spectrum, have killer output and very long life. Just saving up. I am currently installing AC and going to a closed system with CO2 that is eating the budget up for now. Next fall for the 315w. Sorry...... Ramble......
Regards,
Azeo
My next will be the Philips CDM 315w Elite Agro. I can currently get the 315w Elite in 3000k or 4k for wholesale pricing of $78 each and the specific ballast (the only one that will run them) that is electronic/digital & dimable for $278 each. Google the Philips ColorMaster 315w CDM Elite. They are way loaded in the right areas of the spectrum, have killer output and very long life. Just saving up. I am currently installing AC and going to a closed system with CO2 that is eating the budget up for now. Next fall for the 315w. Sorry...... Ramble......
Regards,
Azeo
SEAttown206
Member
Thanks for the quick response Phaeton & Azeotrope.... I have been lurking around this thread since it began, am finally trying to get something started. I figured that I was ok from what I read in your post, but figured better to ask than find out the "hard way"....
I am a few weeks behind in this thread, did notice the 315w Agro though. Gonna hafta read-up on that. I hear you on stuff "eating up the budget"...........
SEA
I am a few weeks behind in this thread, did notice the 315w Agro though. Gonna hafta read-up on that. I hear you on stuff "eating up the budget"...........
SEA
I presume you mean a dali dimmable ballast, you need dali equipment to steer it. So that's $350 for a 315W system, $700 for a 630W system, $1,050 for a 945W system, and another $ 200 for a simple dali controller? At more than a euro per watt you don't even have the reflectors to go with them? Seems like a big investment tto me compared to what is currently available on the market. Granted, spectrum and light maintenance are much better than MH, but I would use it in a combination with HPS, just because CDM en CMH is only available at medium powers, to add some quality spectrum.
Hello whazzup. I can get the philips specified ballast that they have listed as the only acceptable for the CDM Elite (and Agro version). It is their digital ballast and they claim it is the only acceptable driver for this bulb line. I get them wholesale for about $350.00 for ballast and bulb together. I agree that a combination is a good recomendation. With the small footprint I work in these days (sadly reduced) CDM/CMH makes up the majority at 250w and I am supplimenting.
Just flipped to 12/12 and changed out to GE Chromafit 250w 3k cmh from philips 4k and kept the 150w 3.2k Venture Uni-Form Pulse start MH on an electronic for the suppliment. They are happy. I have boxes of ballasts and bulbs ranging the full gammet of HPS and CMH plus various halides available , but no space to use them in or I would be mixing more they are all 400w - 1k......... But, I do get very good healthy plants and good quality/yields for current medical needs.
Your input is greatly appreciated and wise!
Just flipped to 12/12 and changed out to GE Chromafit 250w 3k cmh from philips 4k and kept the 150w 3.2k Venture Uni-Form Pulse start MH on an electronic for the suppliment. They are happy. I have boxes of ballasts and bulbs ranging the full gammet of HPS and CMH plus various halides available , but no space to use them in or I would be mixing more they are all 400w - 1k......... But, I do get very good healthy plants and good quality/yields for current medical needs.
Your input is greatly appreciated and wise!
You are correct on the reflector...... However, I have access to some very fine selections of specular materials, I get great satisfaction from design and DIY. There are also some commercial lighting fixtures starting to make their way out that are high quality and will house these bulbs. For someone that is to run like larger areas, the reflector issue and total time invested to use it may come down to how much they like to tinker around with stuff........ But, for someone like me, it is just too much fun and satisfying to play. I have to save for another month or two as a new AC and CO2 on my set-up are eating up the budget!!!! This hobby/medical project provides no financial income as it purely personal.
I appreciate your enthusiasm and by all means experiment. In this market people often talk about "expensive" and not a lot about ROI 
. Developing a good reflector though is really not that easy. Remember that more than 2/3 of your light (with a deep reflector even 3/4) is going through your reflector. 70 or 96% efficiency and better uniformity does make a difference and has a huge impact om your ppfd (up to 20% total reflector output!).
. Developing a good reflector though is really not that easy. Remember that more than 2/3 of your light (with a deep reflector even 3/4) is going through your reflector. 70 or 96% efficiency and better uniformity does make a difference and has a huge impact om your ppfd (up to 20% total reflector output!).I had to use a vertical 400 cmh phillips in
a horizontal fixture and the output is quite a bit less.
I tested 2 400 horizontals they were both at 2800 FC
the vertical I'm using in the horizontal position is 2400 FC
about a 15% loss. The light color is decent but not quite
as good as my horizontal bulb, it seems a shade different.
a horizontal fixture and the output is quite a bit less.
I tested 2 400 horizontals they were both at 2800 FC
the vertical I'm using in the horizontal position is 2400 FC
about a 15% loss. The light color is decent but not quite
as good as my horizontal bulb, it seems a shade different.
The G.E. is listed at 3600k vert and 3000k hor. Listed output isn't much different. They spec there bulb as universal regarding position. I have done the vert in a horiz position and even without a meter, the difference is noticable regarding color shift. Seems that it doesn't affect plant growth mutch, but do we really know???? The G.E. throws more infra red and heats up my rez 3degF more than the philips...... Maybe just more output as the philips was a vert in a horiz......
At any rate, thanks for actual numbers!
At any rate, thanks for actual numbers!
Essential Maine
New member
Question: Can I run a 400w CMH on 400w switchable ballast? I presume yes because it switches to HPS, its one or the other. I want switchable in case I go either way without CMH in the future or expand the garden. I want CMH in veg tent as opposed to MH? I have 600w HPS flowering room. Would i downgrade the cycle by taking them out of CMH into HPS?
Thanks
Thanks
payn4school
Member
Phaeton~ so it looks like you know your shiznit. Are these readings what you expected? good, great, bad?
t
jc
t
jc
I'm getting light flickers on my 400 cmh from
changed ballast & bulbs & still flickering but nothing
seems to be running in the house to make it flicker.
any clues on the flicker? thanks.
changed ballast & bulbs & still flickering but nothing
seems to be running in the house to make it flicker.
any clues on the flicker? thanks.
Change your cable? I had a short in one of mine and had a problem that sounds like you are describing. The ballast would come on and the bulb would start to flicker but it would never light. Fiddling with the cable got the bulb to light, so it was probably a short in my cable. Also, get the shortest cable you can find because I think I remember somewhere in the depths of this thread reading that people have problems once they go beyond a certain length. Sorry I don't remember exactly when. It's a wake and vape kinda day.
Payn4school: I was surprised by the red level, my interpretation of the graphs led me to expect closer to 1:1 on the red/blue ratio, not the 2.5:1 actual.
The ratio for HPS came out to 11.4/1.6 for red/blue, close to 7:1.
Just numbers, no emotional attachment, but the LED growlight matches the CMH ratio a lot better than the HPS.
The ratio for HPS came out to 11.4/1.6 for red/blue, close to 7:1.
Just numbers, no emotional attachment, but the LED growlight matches the CMH ratio a lot better than the HPS.
remember this is also mW/cm2. This is not the number of photons or micromol readings, only the par reading is (PPFD). Blue light contains up to 1.6 times more energy than red light, so you should average that and take it into consideration in your calculations (so roughly +20-30% for the red). Always remember what you are measuring and what it is you want to compare. So actually there is even more red. What is the spectrum sensitivity of the meters? The horticultural lamps contain around or lower than 8% blue light. That's why Philips recommends to use HPS in combination with MH in climate rooms. If you correct the 7:1 with 20-30% you come pretty close.
Would these meters be better for us/
The quantum meter quits at 660 nm, so misses a whole lot of red, counts all the UV though, go figure. Must be the reasonable price.
These meters are used for keeping initial light levels and ratio's within 20% when changing the rooms and/or lights (I do that a lot) around. My eyes turned out to be worse than random at comparing HID, LED, and fluorescents.
The growing plant has the final say, sometimes the meters can be misleading if used alone. Lucky for me I did not acquire them until I had grown for 12 years. I'm a slow learner.
It just keeps getting better.
These meters are used for keeping initial light levels and ratio's within 20% when changing the rooms and/or lights (I do that a lot) around. My eyes turned out to be worse than random at comparing HID, LED, and fluorescents.
The growing plant has the final say, sometimes the meters can be misleading if used alone. Lucky for me I did not acquire them until I had grown for 12 years. I'm a slow learner.
It just keeps getting better.
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