Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[nightcrawler]

I was gonna say

OMG! 200+++ pages! Unreal read. Just wanted to say thxs to all the people who spent time testing these bulbs. Im sold. 400X2 for me

One question, what ballest should i use for them?

Just kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Thanks everyone!

 

[whiterasta]

So I have not seen anyone show this before. it is an overlay of a reverse color image of the HPS spd from advanced lighting's comparison image on top of the CMH spd.
I thought it was interesting so here it is. IMO pretty dramatic and I am seeing it in my plants

 

[Slimm]

I am planning to set up a vertical grow with two CMH bulbs, one above the other with vertical cool tubes. I have the top bulb pointed down. Can these bulbs be used in either vertical orientation? Is there an advantage to mounting them in either A or B below? I assume A is better since it points the tip of the bottom bulb up toward the growing plants rather than down at the floor. Comments?

Vertical mounting method A

------- <--- ceiling

|----
| [] <--- mogul socket
| O <--- cmh vertical bulb with tip pointed down
|
|
|---- <--- heat tape joining cool tubes
|
|
| O <--- cmh vertical bulb with tip pointed up
| [] <--- mogul socket
|----

------- <--- floor

Vertical mounting method B

------- <--- ceiling

|----
| [] <--- mogul socket
| O <--- cmh vertical bulb with tip pointed down
|
|
|---- <--- heat tape joining cool tubes
| [] <--- mogul socket
| O <--- cmh vertical bulb with tip pointed down
|
|
|----

------- <--- floor

 

[Kronikal_kiwi]

I just thought I'd let you all know that this company

www.Advancedtechlighting.com

Is fucking uselsss. I am so irate now I just cant be bothered with this shit. I paid for two CMH bulbs way back in late march. I got a track and trace number however every time I check the track and trace I get the same stupid message from USPS saying that a ticket has been printed for this item but that's all. The item hasnt been sent yet. I rang USPS whot told me they couldnt do anything unless I was the sender! Shit Im starting to get angry just thinking of this!

I have rung this dork. IT's a toll call all the way from NZ. I have sent 3 no 4 e mails now asking whats happening and whens the item being sent. All I get back is a stupid e mail saying they're having shipping problems but my order isnt one of them, he didnt say if he'd sent it or when he'd send/sent it. I cant swith to budding till these bulbs arrive. Im having insane heat issues. I need these bloody bulbs.

This guy is a dick. This company is crap!
Dont buy your things off of him. I already paid for the bulbs and shipping so it's not like I can buy from a different company now.

 

[FreezerBoy]

Sorry for your troubles but, you don't need to wait. Just fire up some HPS lamps as that's the type of ballast you have. Or should, anyway.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Yes, Slimm...you can use the vertical position bulb in either orientation.
There is an area of light loss at the end of the bulbs. There will be no benefit to hanging them one way or the other.
You might want to consider one of these ready to rock and roll.
http://www.hydrowholesale.com/Reflectors/Viagrow-30-Air-Cooled-Super-Yield-Dual-Socket-Reflector.asp

 

[Kronikal_kiwi]

Hey FB bro

I got hps bulbs in there ATM but its slightly hotter than Id like at 32 degrees celius (89.6 f) I want to drop it to 29 ish. I know it should be lower but with the temps we're getting hear at the moment it'd be wishful thinking. I dont want to flower at too high a temp as I get fluffy buds, been there done that. So I'm desperately waiting for these bulbs. But to wait all this time to find out the company hasnt even bothered sending them yet is a real kick in the guts.

 

[grow1620]

I've ordered from advanced tech 3 times in the past 6 months and have had no issues with them...

A friend of mine ordered from them and got a bad bulb (coulda happened in the mail) he called the guy (chatted with him on the phone for 20 minutes about grow stuff, spectrums etc..)and it was replaced and to his door in less then a week. this is in the U.S.

 

[scottalena]

I don't know about lumens and all that other stuff but I do know I got about 1.5oz of huge buds off of my 1 aurora indica(lower branches) and there's still about 2oz's still on the plant almost ready to harvest. I'm using a 250w cmh about 13weeks 12/12 from birth, insane. In my estimation the cmh produced about 1.5x the bud my hps produced. I'll post pictures as soon as I learn how.

 

[nightcrawler]

its in my sig

So I have not seen anyone show this before. it is an overlay of a reverse color image of the HPS spd from advanced lighting's comparison image on top of the CMH spd.
I thought it was interesting so here it is. IMO pretty dramatic and I am seeing it in my plants

 

[The Wang]

still no ETA on 600w bulbs? I'm running a 600w HPS right now. Orange makes everything look so ugly...

 

[whiterasta]

I am contacting the lighting division directly to find out if higher wattages are even in the works still or have been shelved. There are issues with running more juice through the existing design, like catastrophic failure. so I expect a whole new architecture in the arc tube need be developed for a .6k or 1k bulb. That said a 1k CMH IMO would provide the absolute closest SPD to sunlight to date and would mark a new phase of indoor culture.
WR

 

[FreezerBoy]

This is the CMH thread, not an LED flame war. Stick to the subject... or puppies. Everyone loves puppies.

In the immortal words of Sam Wyche, "This isn't Cleaveland!" It's not the dawg pound, we do not hurl bottles at each other. Play nice.

 

[The Wang]

I am contacting the lighting division directly to find out if higher wattages are even in the works still or have been shelved. There are issues with running more juice through the existing design, like catastrophic failure. so I expect a whole new architecture in the arc tube need be developed for a .6k or 1k bulb. That said a 1k CMH IMO would provide the absolute closest SPD to sunlight to date and would mark a new phase of indoor culture.
WR

let us know what you find out!

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Can I use this bulb in a freezer?

 

[whiterasta]

Can I use this bulb in a freezer?

Minimum strike temp is listed @ -30F so it should fire and run. Cool cab idea a vertical freezer with a thermostat at 72F running A .4K CMH on 4 3gallon pots. CO2 and such would be idealized in such a chamber and old freezers are quite easy to find.
WR

EDIT: should read -30C minimum strike temp

MasterColor® Metal Halide 400W
HPS-Retro White™ Horizontal Lamp
Featuring ALTO® Lamp Technology
w Ordering Information
Ordering Code CDM400S51/HOR/4K/ALTO*
ANSI Designation Operates on S51/M169/O
Product Number 14650-6
Description MasterColor Metal Halide
Package Quantity 12
w Physical Characteristics
Bulb Size ED-18
Bulb Finish Clear
Base Mogul
Max. Overall Length (MOL) 9 3/4'' (248mm)
Light Center Length (LCL) 5 3/4'' (146mm)
Arc Length 1 1/4'' (32mm)
Arc Tube Material Poly Crystalline Alumina
Max. Permissible Bulb Temp. 450ºC (842ºF)
Max. Permissible Base Temp. 210ºC (410ºF)
Max. Bulb to Base Eccentricity 3º
Max.Arc Tube to Base Eccentricity 3º
w Operating Characteristics (Photometric)
Approx. Initial Lumens1, 2 34,800
Approx. Mean Lumens 2, 3 29,600 HOR
Rated Average Life, Hours4 15,000 HOR
Correlated Color Temp. (CCT)5 4000K
CIE Chromaticity Approx. 5 x-.383, y-.384
Color Rendering Index (CRI) 85
Efficacy (lpw) 87
w Operating Position
Horizontal ± 15º–Open or Enclosed Luminaires
*Not for use in compact “wall pack” or “flood light” type fixtures.
Maximum temperature limit of outer bulb may be exceeded in
these applications and can lead to premature lamp faliure
Luminare photometric distributions may be affected due to
differences in arc length vs. HPS lamp arc length.
CDM 400 S51/V/HOR/4K Lumen Maintenance
Burning Hours, Rated Average Life 15,000 Hours
100%
80%
60%
40%
20%
0%
0 4000 8000 12000 15000
% Lumen Maintenance
MasterColor® Spectral Power Distribution — 4K Types
100
90
80
70
60
50
40
30
20
10
0
RELATIVE ENERGY
400 450 500 550 600 650 700
Wavelength (Nanometers)
Footnotes:
1) Measured at 100 hours of life in horizontal position.
2) Approximate lumen values listed are for horizontal operation of lamp.
3) Approximate lumen output at 40% of lamp rated average life.
4) Rated average life is the life obtained, on the average, from large representative groups of lamps in laboratory tests under controlled conditions at 10 or more operating hours per start.
It is based on survival of at least 50% of the lamps and allows for individual lamps or groups of lamps to vary considerably from the average.
5) Measured at rated lamp watts on a linear reactor. LPW does not include ballast losses.
6) Measured with the lamp operating at rated watts.
Electrical Data (Subject to change without notice)
Warnings, Cautions and Operating Instructions
“WARNING: These lamps can cause serious skin burn and eye inflammation
from short wave ultraviolet radiation if outer envelope of the lamp is broken
or punctured. Do not use where people will remain for more than a few minutes
unless adequate shielding or other safety precautions are used. Certain lamps
that will automatically extinguish when the outer envelope is broken or punctured
are commercially available.” This lamp complies with FDA radiation performance
standard 21 CFR subchapter J. (USA:21CFR 1040.30 Canada: SOR/DORS/80-381)
If the outer bulb is broken or punctured, turn off at once and replace
the lamp to avoid possible injury from hazardous short wave ultraviolet
radiation. Do not scratch the outer bulb or subject it to pressure as this
could cause the outer bulb to crack or shatter. A partial vacuum in the
outer bulb may cause glass to fly if the envelope is struck.
WARNING: The arc-tube of metal halide lamps is designed to operate under high
pressure and at temperatures up to 1000ºC and can unexpectedly rupture due to
internal or external factors such as a ballast failure or misapplication. If the arc-tube
ruptures for any reason, the outer bulb may break and pieces of extremely hot glass
might be discharged into the surrounding environment. If such a rupture were to
happen, THERE IS A RISK OF PERSONAL INJURY, PROPERTY DAMAGE,
BURNS AND FIRE.
These lamps are designed to retain all the glass particles should an arc tube
rupture occur. The following operating instructions are recommended to
minimize these occurrences.
RELAMP FIXTURES AT OR BEFORE THE END OF RATED LIFE.
Allowing lamps to operate until they fail is not advised and may
increase the possibility of inner arc tube rupture.
This lamp contains an arc tube with a filling gas containing Kr-85 and is
distributed by Philips Lighting Company, a division of Philips Electronics
North America Corporation, Somerset, New Jersey 08875-6800.
CAUTION: TO REDUCE THE RISK OF PERSONAL INJURY, PROPERTY
DAMAGE, BURNS AND FIRE RESULTING FROM AN ARC-TUBE RUPTURE THE
FOLLOWING LAMP OPERATING INSTRUCTIONS MUST BE FOLLOWED.
Lamp Operating Instructions:
1) RELAMP FIXTURES AT OR BEFORE THE END OF RATED LIFE.Allowing lamps
to operate until they fail is not advised and may increase the possibility
of inner arc tube rupture.
2) Before lamp installation/replacement, shut power off and allow lamp and fixture
to cool to avoid electrical shock and potential burn hazards.
3) Use only auxiliary equipment meeting Philips and/or ANSI standards.
Use within voltage limits recommended by ballast manufacturer.
A. Operate lamp only within specified limits of operation.
B. For total supply load refer to ballast manufacturers electrical data.
4) Periodically inspect the outer envelope. Replace any lamps that show scratches,
cracks or damage.
5) If a lamp bulb support is used, be sure to insulate the support electrically
to avoid possible decomposition of the bulb glass.
6) Protect lamp base, socket and wiring against moisture, corrosive atmospheres
and excessive heat.
7) Time should be allowed for lamps to stabilize in color when turned on for the
first time. This may require several hours of operation, with more than one
start. Lamp color is also subject to change under conditions of excess vibration
or shock, and color appearance may vary between individual lamps.
8) Lamps may require 10–20 minutes to re-light if there is a power interruption.
9) Take care in handling and disposing of lamps. If an arc tube is broken, avoid skin
contact with any of the contents or fragments.
MasterColor® Metal Halide 400 Watt HPS-Retro White™ Horizontal Lamp
R
Lamp Watts (Nominal) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 400
Lamp Operating Voltage (rms) (Nominal) 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . 100
Initial Lamp Voltage Range (rms) 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 84–112
Lamp Operating Current (Amps) (rms) (Nominal) . . . . . 4.6
Lamp Current Crest Factor (Maximum) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.8
Warm-up Time to 80% of Output . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 Minutes
Restrike Time for Hot Lamp. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 Minutes (Average)
Ballast Type . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ANSI S51
Ballast Open Circuit Voltage (Minimum). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 198 RMS Min.
Pulse Peak Volts . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2500 Minimum, 4000 Maximum
Pulse Width @ 90% Peak . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 Micro Second Minimum
Pulse Repetition Rate (Minimum) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 per Half Cycle
Minimum Operating Temperature . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . -30º C

 

[messn'n'gommin']

Won't that thaw out the puppies?

 

[FreezerBoy]

Not if you set the timers properly. Like the heating element in a frost free freezer, the lamp comes on just enough to prevent frost build up, thus preserving puppies fluffy appearance.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Very kewl.

 

[ddwall]

I know this has been covered I' ve read most of this post for about a year but what type of penetration should I expect out of a 400 watt cmh I remember reading to only veg to about 12' to 18" trying to decide weather I want a 400 watt cmh or a 600 watt hps. thank you