Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[dwarfganja]

hope this doesnt cause any confusion, but philips makes the true pulse start cmh lamps up to 250 watts and all will work with a suitable M102/M142 ballasts whether coil/core or electronic. dwarfganja is refering to the cmh RETRO lamps that are designed for coil/core hps ballasts only. Those come in 250w and 400w.

Guess I didn't even read post correctly to answer. My bad!

 

[dingbang]

So far the main difference I have seen using a combination
1K HPS/.4k CMH is my plants are much more compact and with closer nodes by about 50%, comparing old photos. Stems are thicker and stiffer and overall leaf texture is coarser.
My leggiest strain is behaving tight and compact with ~twice the nodes per branch as HPS alone. Will turn back soon and we will see if the extra nodes turn into more buds.
So far however things really look the best I have seen under lights and as good as a number of greenhouses.
WR

Holy crow whiterasta....your 12k thread is nutz. I dig the kiddie pool idea.

No worries dwarfganja. Man, I can't believe (but I completely appreciate) how helpful and considerate people are here at ICmag.

So do you all see a significant temp difference between HPS and CMH? It's sounding more like this lamp technology is perfect for small closet grows.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

It's only about 10 degsF at best with the 400 (bulb temp, not 10 less cab degs). You still need the basic cab cooling methods in place, no different than with HPS.

 

[scurred]

Does anyone else notice you sometimes get a headache when working around the CMH? And your eyes start to bother you? I think the UVB this bulb gives off may be harmful at such a close distance.

 

[Slimm]

Does anyone else notice you sometimes get a headache when working around the CMH? And your eyes start to bother you? I think the UVB this bulb gives off may be harmful at such a close distance.

I have not noticed that however I recently picked up a pair of clear UV safety glasses. I wear the glasses and a hat to keep the UV off of my face and out of my eyes. Obviously if you have the bulb behind plain glass you will not need the protection. I have mine behind pyrex which lets some UV through.

 

[intel2000]

Ok guys - I think we need to make a CURRENT ballast and light reference. I was searching through the thread - but there are just too many pages. So here are some common ballast and light questions. Please chime in if you know the answers:

1. Will CMH work with all of the same wattage HPS ballasts? If no - what specs do I need to look for? I see that Phillips makes a CMH that they say you can use with your current HPS ballast - is that true?

2. Will CMH work with all of the same wattage MH ballasts? If no - what spec do I need to look for?

3. Will CMH work with standard MH/HPS "security light" purchased from hardware store?

4. As fa as ANSI is concerned - I know that matching the ANSI is important. If I see a M102/E for example - what does the "E" mean? Will that only work with ALL M102 ballasts or does the ballast need "E"?

5. I see that the lights come in different "temperatures" 3000K, 4000K, etc. Which is best?


Thanks in advance for all your replies!

 

[intel2000]

Thanks - as far as the CMH HPS retro-fit - I am considering a new MH ballast to avoid the retrofit. I suppose 3000k is the best temp?

 

[BakedBeans]

I just wanted to post a link to a grow I'm working on setting up. I've stuffed a DIY 400-watt CMH in a motorhome shower and I'm hoping it's going to work well.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=167110

I bought my DIY GE ballast kit + mogul socket + Phillips horizontal CMH lamp on Ebay for around $115. The ballast included some brackets that I was able to attach to a piece of wood. So far it seems to work just fine though I wish I would've had the cash for a nice ballast box.

I'm using the HTG MaxWing reflector. It was around $50 shipped. No room for an air cooled reflector. My space is 30.5in wide and 2 feet deep.





bb

 

[guanito]

buy a juction box from HD for that ballast - $10.

 

[BakedBeans]

No home depot here, only small stores but I'll look when I get a chance. It's not getting hot and the ballast doesn't touch the wood. All cables are tied firmly, cap and igniter are strapped down and it's all securely mounted.

Plus it's like 30 degrees outside, for now, and stays quite cool in that closet.

I'll fix it when I'm able.

bb

 

[whiterasta]

An old tool box with a couple vent holes drilled in and some rubber feet makes for a good ballast box I definitely would not leave it mounted to wood as caps can blow out and cause a fire. A grounded metal box or shelf is the safe way to mount a ballast, mounting on wood there can be grounding issues for the caps and ignitor not just the ballast. I do applaud your DYI approach But please take it from someone with several blackened ballast boxes, You do not want a fail while mounted to wood.I think I have a BBQ ballast to pic and post so you can see how hot and dangerous a ballast is when it goes south in a big way.
Again good on ya for the DYI but stick that gear in a box so we all can sleep more soundly.
WR

 

[ddd]

Baked beans, How do you like that electronic balast?
Does it make any noise?

 

[whiterasta]

That is a standard magnetic ballast for HPS. There are no "bare" electronic ballasts available, their internals are integrated or directly mounted in a specialized housing.
Mag ballasts are a component system and each component can and does fail on occasion so need to be easily replaced. A fail in an E-ballast likely bricks the unit with no repair.
As far as noise when mounted correctly, grounded correctly, and kept no hotter than just warm to the touch with cooling and using a high quality bulb with correct internal arc tube support a 400w system is a quiet hum that most box fans will drown out easily. A similar E-ballast is about half to 3/4 the noise. FWIW I have had bulbs which were louder than my mags due to poor fitment of the wire arc support vibrating @ 60cycles/sec.
Long winded morning coffee response but I hope it clears up a couple things
WR

 

[BakedBeans]

Hey, thanks for the input.

How exactly is a capacitor or ignitor grounded inside of a metal case? I directly grounded the brackets that the coil is mounted to. My cap is plastic and so is the ignitor but there didn't seem to be provisions to ground either. The cap came with a little clamp to hold it in place so I used that. Is it a fire barrier concern?

I agree, I don't want a wood fire in there. I'll find a box. That might take some digging unless I can find a used electrical panel or something that will work. Maybe a local electrician has some old things. I don't have any old tool boxes except a rather large metal one my grandfather passed down.

It's not very loud at all. The hum is just a little bit louder than the ancient on-board 12V battery charger. It doesn't run very hot either.

I'm not interested in half-assing, it was just what I had to work with at the time. I'm not running the lights yet since I still have work to do.

Oh, BTW, I left the lights on all day a couple of weeks ago just to test. With crap ventilation of my space (~30ft3) the temps only got to 117 degrees F but it was 5% humidity. I don't plan on running during the day and definitely will need a better fan in a few months.


bb

 

[GrnMtnGrwr]

Thank you, sir! lol...Poor folks got poor ways!



There really isn't much to it. I was looking for my stock pot to make some soup and saw the loaf pans at the back of the cabinet and had a light bulb moment (lol...ironic, huh?).

I set the ballast as high on the mounting brackets as it would go for easier air flow under the ballast itself. Positioned it as far to one side and the end of the pan as I could to leave as much room as possible for the power cords, ignitor and capacitor. Dry fitted the ballast, igniter and capacitor brackets and made my marks for the bolts. Free handed the air holes and cord access and used a half-moon file to file to my hearts content . Your file is your friend! Just as an fyi...Because of the slope of the pans I had to mount the capacitor sideways and it made it a lot easier to cut off the last inch or so of the ballast mounting brackets.

The top was dry fitted with the pc fan and marked. A 1/2" hole, aviator snips, the file, some silicone caulking and bolt holes in the handles was all the top pan needed. Added some quick connects to the fan wires and adapter and...voila!

(The pic's are a mish-mash of the two I put together.)

Like I said, "weren't much to it."

Namaste, mess

I copied this, very easy, very effective.

 

[BakedBeans]

Oh yeah, I remember that one now!

I don't cook on metal pans (only glass) but it's a great idea. Maybe a little time consuming though. It does give me ideas.

Thanks for that!

bb

 

[ddd]

So has anyone tried the digital balast yet? I started a thread in the growers form and I don't think there were any responses.

The last time I checked out Advanced Tech's site, they were selling GE digitals.

 

[khysanth]

Have a few questions that I need answered by tomorrow.

So I got my 400w Phillips Retro-White CMH.

I've been shopping around for a ballast. I THINK I found one on Craigslist for $100.

It's a 400w ballast for HPS. The guy says the ANSI code on it is S51. Is that all I need to know to be sure it'll work with my bulb?

What about stuff like input voltage, etc.? I live in the USA if that matters.

Or am I good because we know it's S51?

Thanks!

 

[Pinball Wizard]

yes...S51...is the ANSI code for 400 watt HPS magnetic ballasts..should work great...

and it should be ...UL rated...most mags are

 

[williebetmore]

OMG! 200+++ pages! Unreal read. Just wanted to say thxs to all the people who spent time testing these bulbs. Im sold. 400X2 for me

One question, what ballest should i use for them?

Just kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Thanks everyone!