Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[rambam]

Electronic Ballast for CMH: Found

Electronic Ballast for CMH: Found

Guys, Gals
Ya HydTech is not in it for the greater good.. there prices have always been higher than anyone else. as well as they don really tell you the real products Name or order info. .(to order from other than them)

As prone to obfuscation as their site is, I called back and spoke with a second guy who - although clearly a toker - spoke a mile a minute and seemed to know his stuff - in contrast to the slower, sloppier stoner
mentioned in my earlier post. It was like a comparison between a person who [over]enjoys Sativa-doms vs someone who gravitates toward the Indica experience.

Anyway, the second guy was super-helpful and even took me to the GE site where we looked up both the electronic ballast:
GE 29377–GE-MH-250-400
and the 3K 400W bulb
GE 93295 – CMH400/U/830/R
Both of these can be had in many different places, the ballast for less than $200 and the bulb for around $70. They (hydro-tech) specified that these ballasts will ONLY light the GE 400W CMH - they will NOT light the Phillips Retro-White.

however the price difference from Magnetic to E/D Ballasts are not worth the upfront cost/Lack of easily consumer replaceable parts or total Life. They REQUIRE CLEAN POWER.

Sim, could you clarify what you mean by "clean power?" Is regulated generator power cleaner than municipal power?

 

[rambam]

BTW, the Sativa-loving guy there at Hydro-Tech said something I found interesting. He said that Sativa-dominant strains tend to prefer a diet lighter in nutrients than their Indica-dom peers. This is well-documented here on icmag. What is interesting is that he said that
1) If these strains absorb less nutrients, they are also absorbing less light, since light utilization/consumption is more or less proportional to nutrient/CO2 consumption.
2) That being the case, using greater intensities of light to increase yield with Sativa-doms will be less effective than getting the correct spectrum of light. The added light, in terms of intensity (umols photons per meter squared per second?) will not be absorbed by the plant, whereas the same amount of light, in a more ideal spectral distribution, will get a response.

Any thoughts on this hypothesis/claim?

 

[onegreenday]

just plugged in my 400w CMH today. looking good. love the real light color instead of the orange from HPS. I'll keep you guys posted, although i might from a 600 w HPS in there too.

looking forward to a crystally harvest in about 3 months!

yup and the crystals look like icycles pure & shiny

it' difficult to imagine they'll amber.

 

[onegreenday]

I tested two HPS ballast 400 watt on the CMH

I tested two HPS ballast 400 watt on the CMH

I wanted to compare 2 ballasts (different Manufacturers)
to see if the output was equal on both.

1. The Howard 400 watt HPS from:
http://www.advancedtechlighting.com/so400-71c-211.htm

2. the 400 watt HPS from HTG (no webpage up on 400,
they just revamped website).
http://htgsupply.com/

I used the same bulb & reflector &
only changed the ballasts.

I measured with a Phytotronics footcandle light meter.

In a 35" vertical reflector the ballasts
were within 100 footcandles of each other.

In a horizontal reflector they were identical in footcandles.

The Howard core & coil is American made with a 5 year warranty.

The HTG is an import with a 2 year warranty.

Only a few $$$$ seperate each other in cost.

EDIT: Oh yah I forgot http://www.advancedtechlighting.com/so400-71c-211.htm
test their ballast so you don't get a dud on delivery.

*Please Note all Products are Pre-Burned for 36 Hours at 12 Cycles, This Ensures Product Surviving Full Life

 

[the.rise]

for a stealth cab about 5x1.75x4.5 do you think using 3x 100w cmh bulbs would suffice for a sog autoflower grow? the price of the extra bulbs/ballasts makes me want to lean towards a single 250/400 but i want good light distribution considering how wide the box is going to be.

 

[simba]

Edit. I kinda went on a tirade but after you read this post you will understand saftey is never overlooked..im not bashing or startin notin but since it was referenced and where that data came from i need to make some corrections to the statements/questions posed here.

Regarding the GE UltraMax (NuVation dimming version)
that (hy-tn) Co is spewing Wrong Info, as it does operate Philips CMH HPS-Retro White infact they usto only sell the UltraMax with the Philips Bulb.
also if you look at there page
also they say "Adjustable wattage: 250-400 watt (dial-down during hot summer) "
Uhm NO WAY>> although it can be done the bulb does not like it one bit infact the GE NuVation says "The NuVation™ meets the lamp manufacturers requirements of starting/operating the lamp
at high wattage for at least 15 minutes before any dimming control can happen.
For continuous operation (24 hr/day) the Nuvation will automatically go into a
full power mode once a day for at least 15 minutes as required by lamp specifications."
They really need to know there products like adv tech does LMFAO>>
a side note on that on another page they have a par cmh with a NON PULSE Rated Socket I have seen these ARC and melt the wires to a Short.

Here is Adv Tech's Page on the Ultramax.
Takes a bit its one Meg Ikers make it smaller LOL..
this is for reference use..as for some reason they are the only Co that puts Actual Detail out there instead of others Hiding/Not Disclosing MFR or Part Numbers (hy-tn) and others just giving basic info.
I WANT DETAILS Baby

look at the circuit bored notice how every thing is OPEN and properly distanced from each other component this is for heat and RF interference.. the Horti E ballasts are Crammed in there and POTTED... the GE you can Service if you know how to do basic Circuit Testing or See Circuit that popped and solder away..AND UL LISTED thats a ultimate point.

Again im here for me and the Greater Good of mankind spewing FACTS ONLY and few opinions but never at expense of saftey (both safety's aspects)

 

[420.se]

Did place an order for a 400W CMH bulb from advancedtechlighting.com three weeks ago. Paid through paypal. Have not recieved anything and no reply from any of their emails. "[email protected]" "[email protected]"

I got a tracking number from USPS through paypal today so it seems they shipped my bulb finally.

 

[onegreenday]

that's some impressive equipment. nice. very nice........

 

[the.rise]

has anybody used these bulbs on autoflowering plants? just wondering how internodal length was and how dense the bud was overall


is that ballast the 600$ one? im really interested in going cmh but theres no money savings from switching bulbs if the ballast for just one 400w cmh is 600$

 

[rambam]

Simba, thanks for clarifying the nonsense that I quoted hydro-tech on re Ultramax/Phillips Retro White compatibility. My bad for using them as a reference for anything. It's not just their site that's hazy/sloppy/incorrect with details. If you talk to the people themselves, it's quite obvious why the site is so wacked. The pics of the Ultramax innards are ill as well. Thanks.

 

[fatigues]

is that ballast the 600$ one? im really interested in going cmh but theres no money savings from switching bulbs if the ballast for just one 400w cmh is 600$

Hell no! You can get a new magnetic core and coil 400w ballast mftrd by Sunlight Supply (Sun Systems) for only $125.00. Depending on where you are, they pop up used on your local Craigslist for a lot cheaper, too. And there is always eBay, of course.

You'll end up spending more on a pair of 400w CMH bulbs than you will on a new mag ballast to run one.

A CMH compatible electronic ballast made by GE is expensive - but you don't need to go there and I don't believe anybody who has posted in this monstrous thread actually has. Everyone here is using old style mag ballasts as those are the only ones that work with CMH bulbs. Standard e-ballasts sold through hydro stores (Quantum, Galaxy, Lumatek, Next Gen, etc..) do not work with CMH tech as they operate at too high a frequency for CMH bulbs.

 

[simba]

there are 2 ge units
ultramax $200ish
NuVation $450ish
those are the expensive options.
mag core ballasts can be had for as little as 54 bucks..
its just Eballasts are new and do save the lamp and lil bit elec so they get ya in the beginning.. (not all Eballasts created equal)
i have&used both mag and GE Ehid for few years and my honest opinion get a mag core for cheaper.. (as most houses arent set up with Clean Power and Eballasts dont like spikes/brownouts as they maintain output digitily so they stress out.. mag core can pass those dips threw so no bad effects to ballast. and GE eHid Ballasts are 208-277V we have 120 at most outlets.)unless you are really rich for one or have 10+ballasts ge is not for ya..

 

[hoosierdaddy]

simba...
I have ordered the Philips alto cermalux 400hps. I am going to try CMH until stretch is over, go to the the new hps until flush, then bring the CMH back out for finish.

Thoughts? (specifically on the hps bulb)

 

[onegreenday]

flowers r different on CMH

flowers r different on CMH

just trimmed the 1st CMH flower & it
seemed quite different than the previous HPS version

It did seem more leafy but I'll use that for edible oil.

There were some dense colas and the bud smell seems
different from the last. Volume/yield is ok and I was under
45" umbrella reflector so lumens were down

from before. all in all it looks tasty
I think the cannabinoid profile did change &
lucky I have both now to compare later

in a month say.

I'm taking the same clone all thru veg & flower for
a good look see how the lamp works;

right now it's made a lot more side branching
and in flower I'm goin to try push up the lumens
with a smaller reflector or

go hoizontal........

 

[MrBomDiggitty]

simba...
I have ordered the Philips alto cermalux 400hps. I am going to try CMH until stretch is over, go to the the new hps until flush, then bring the CMH back out for finish.

Thoughts? (specifically on the hps bulb)

This is what I wanted to do, but my CMH came during week 2 of flower... I definately saw more stretch during week 1 with the hps than during week 2 with the cmh, but maybe the nature of the plants was more responsible for this than the color of the lamp.

I am now back to running the HPS and the end of week 3 has not seen much more stretch at all.

I'm hoping someone with more experience in this can post because I'm wondering if I should even run the HPS for the next 4 weeks or if I should get back to using my CMH early

 

[MrBomDiggitty]

Okay, I went back to the CMH bulb for temperature comparison...

With the HPS 360w eye, temps were climbing above 89 degrees.

With the CMH 400w, temps are steady at 88 degrees.

So 40 more watts, but its cooler overall. No fancy aircooled hood. Just my econowing and me.

 

[City Twin]

figgured it out

figgured it out

Can I get a clarification please.

 

[onegreenday]

The leaf has changed so much under CMH.

They are longer, thinner and way more numbers

and they are mostly only 3 fingers per leaf;

not like 5 or 7. The plant looks drastic change from before.

But with all the extra leaf growth is I see more

'light catchers' as the plant canopy has opened up.

EDIT: I think the old HPS bud was 'puffed-up' bud
from the red light effect and not natural herb really.
Sure it weighed & trics but not 'natural'

The CMH should bring the plant back to it's
more natural native state of that light spectrum.
No it's not pure sunlight but it's very nice......

EDIT: The CMH changed my plant. it's actually choker now.
no kiddin.

 

[onegreenday]

http://www.tradewindsgarden.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=287

The CMH deserves a reflector like this.

I got the newest version DELTA.

sorry no good pic's of it yet

lumens matter..........
I went from 1400 (vertical reflector- lumens to 2400 horizontal lumens and
way more growth is evident

 

[etinarcadiaego]

EDIT: I think the old HPS bud was 'puffed-up' bud
from the red light effect and not natural herb really.
Sure it weighed & trics but not 'natural'

The CMH should bring the plant back to it's
more natural native state of that light spectrum.
No it's not pure sunlight but it's very nice......

What do you mean the HPS bud was puffed up and not natural?? How could a light make the bud become "Unnatural?"

Also, what do you mean the CMH should put the plant back to it's natural native state of light spectrum? That doesn't make sense, am I misunderstanding you?

My understanding is the only real difference between a CMH and HPS is that the CMH gives off more light that is usable to a plant in terms of photosynthesis, so it emits fewer lumens, but a higher percantage of it's emitted light is usable to a plant.

Example (these numbers are just for use in this example and don't represent actuals)

400 watt HPS emits 49,000 lumens - 25% of that light is usable by plants = 12,250 lumens actually used by plant

400 watt CMH emits 31,000 lumens - 50% of that light is usable by plants = 15,500 lumens actually used by plant

So less lumens (poor measure anyways) but more of them usable by the plant . . . .


Do you mean your buds under HPS are fluffy, cause I've grown bud under an HPS that was rock hard and harvested early . . . though I still wanna switch the CMH

http://www.tradewindsgarden.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=287

The CMH deserves a reflector like this.

I got the newest version DELTA.

sorry no good pic's of it yet

lumens matter..........
I went from 1400 (vertical reflector- lumens to 2400 horizontal lumens and
way more growth is evident

Doesn't really look like this reflector is actually ideal for small indoor growrooms, as the design is more suited to greenhouses with very specific plant row and distance-to-light spacing. You should check out this thread to learn more about what reflectors actually reflect the best and how.

Also, lumens don't matter, a topic most folk seem to agree with, as they don't measure the amount of light a lamp emits that plants can use, they measure the amount of light a lamp emits that human beings can see, two totally different things.

A 400 watt HPS puts out 49,000 lumens, whereas a 400 watt CMH emits only 31,000 lumens, yet we all agree is a more effective light despite the reduced lumen count. Lumens mean nothing when it comes to how much light is used by a plant for photosynthesis.