Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[CTSV]

Day 15 of flower on CMH

Day 15 of flower on CMH

CMH kicking ass!

 

[Guest]

Question For Simba

Question For Simba

http://www.prosourceworldwide.com/

Other than the enormous amount these LED's cost, whats your opinion on the actual ability of these to grow with vs HID's & CMH's ?

Also, what do you think about their claims of equaling X amount HID light ?


Thx, LBM

 

[chace]

The Eye spectrum isn't the same as the Phillips.It's more in the blue.

 

[FreezerBoy]

LEDs are the future but, the future isn't here yet. There have been a few here kind enough to share their experiments with UFOs and other LEDs. The finished journals are fascinating but, not all finish. Once they see the disappointing results, most of them stop posting.

I have great respect and admiration for those plunking down hard earned cash to experiment for the good of us all. Some day, they'll be heroes. For today, they're pioneers like your folks. You remember what happened to your folks, don't you, Little Big Man?

 

[onegreenday]

those charts are hard to read

those charts are hard to read

The Eye spectrum isn't the same as the Phillips.It's more in the blue.

the scale of those charts and the various
colors on computer monitors makes it impossible to
accurately gauge the exact spectrums of these lamps.

A large scale color print from the manufacturer would
help if you had them in hand and could
compare the lamp specs side by side.

 

[Sojourner]

Hey guys...
I have two 150 watt HPS lights from HTGsupply, I've replaced the HPS bulbs about 6 months ago but they're starting to dim again and I'd like to get a couple CMH bulbs instead of another HPS as replacement.

I'm really not sure where the best place to order from is, and also can anyone confirm these ballasts can fire a 150 watt CMH?

I'd greatly appreciate any advice.
Thanks in advance

 

[flashog]

http://www.prosourceworldwide.com/

Other than the enormous amount these LED's cost, whats your opinion on the actual ability of these to grow with vs HID's & CMH's ?

Also, what do you think about their claims of equaling X amount HID light ?


Thx, LBM

Don't waste your money man. These people can't even spell "their", and they claim that the 600w LED covers a 50 square feet area and equals 3x1000w HPS.. wtf...

Don't fall for bullshit like this!

 

[FreezerBoy]

Hey guys...
I have two 150 watt HPS lights from HTGsupply, I've replaced the HPS bulbs about 6 months ago but they're starting to dim again and I'd like to get a couple CMH bulbs instead of another HPS as replacement.

I'm really not sure where the best place to order from is, and also can anyone confirm these ballasts can fire a 150 watt CMH?

I'd greatly appreciate any advice.
Thanks in advance

Sorry but, you're out of luck. The 250 & 400 CMH use HPS ballasts. 40-150 CMH use MH ballasts. No matter which CMH you choose, you'll need to buy a new ballast.

 

[Sojourner]

Sorry but, you're out of luck. The 250 & 400 CMH use HPS ballasts. 40-150 CMH use MH ballasts. No matter which CMH you choose, you'll need to buy a new ballast.

Thanks for clearing that up. I think I'll get a couple new 150w HPS bulbs and maybe later on down the road grab a 400watt CMH system.

 

[duddits]

Vegged them Pics of latest run with CMH. They are just finishing their 7th week from seed. They have been vegging under a 250CMH and then were moved to the 400 CMH flower hut. Let then veg there for a while and then flipped lights 6 days ago now. That was then, this is now.
Look how the plants grew up the bottoms with the tops meeting at the canopy or on their way, huh? CMH does rock!! I would LOVE to do a 600 W CMH

Something else worth mentioning is Smart Pots, try them TRY THEM!! They work as advertised. I chopped a male yesterday and was tugging against the root ball and all I can say is wow-o. 2 gal pots for me, will do up to a 5 ft. plant. Simba had championed these, if I recall, as well.

 

[simba]

sorry all, been slammed

any rate..
regarding the eye Cera arc CMHs ya i looked at those before setting on Philips..
the eye cera arc red is the best option and it has flaws.
one requires Enclosed Fixture (that cuts 50% of growers out) enclosed lamps are DANGAUS>> adv tech had proof CMH is a projectile at 1000C lucky for the user it was a philips bulb that held the arc tube in place (IE Open fixture lamp) its not worth the fire risk no mater how minimal.. (call the popo before you grow if u going unprotected bulb route.. may save your life rather be in jail than burn up one night or during a day nap)

Regarding the Eye CMH lineup vs Philips CMH lineup for horticulute i cant stress this enough.. before any one had a clue who i was i discussed with EYE's horti guy and secretary girl> (eye horti usa is 2 people + shipping dept LMFAO and yall pay how much for them things. talk about a PROFITABLE ITEM>>)
any rate they even said the philips cmh is better for horti than there entire lineup including there eye blue.. as a ONE BULB>> Im going to find the emails.. i cant rember if more was discused on phone or email but i wrote notes about it in word that where sticking points.. and thats the gist of it..


hooser
philips has the patent on that arc tube and "protected Arc tube"
the sprial is both protection and for starting etc.. its a side effect it aids in protection but it does do a Huge job at it.. philips was lucky on these bulbs.. best thing yet and will be for long time..
theres many patents regarding cmh and philips HPS Retro WHites and standar CMH..

regarding led.. they have there place.
in space where relamping is not an option.. other than that NO WAY HOESAY>>
i can get cree and Luxeon Leds direct (IE CHEAP!!!) and i cant build my self an array..for a cost less than 400usd.. it would retail for about a grand.. Ya in the long run that's cheap but thatch also not figuring production costs. (that's all with tooling and knowledge i have i cant output even 1 driver a day with everything going on <there kinda big not just few components rather 60ish)
(incl 150 3 watt leds <Best option for price vs output, heat sinks, Driver circuit <DIY>, ac adapter, 150 optic holders and 150 25degree optics) that wouldn't be at least 800 retail.. Chit you not.. to cover a 3.25x4'

dudit, sup buddy been long time.. been thinking of ya..
ya smart pot LOVE THEM.. i been using for about year.. now.. (hadnt been openly saying that until i was sure few months ago that i was Set on them)
theres a Thread here on IC lable smart pots..
i found 50/50 coco higromite mix works greatest.. with bcuzz bio-nrg nutes..
also love the mat idea actully told the owner of SP aka HCG they need to make a round ring for the different sizes.. well see if they listened..

only thing with sp.. i say Really dont veg long sp promotes great root growth thus producing great lush.. but if starting good then awesome results..

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Simba, I hardly think the arc tube patent was awarded as a protection device, although simply by it's construction it does that job.
My point was that the awarding of patent, was for the idea of not needing the tube to be oriented in any particular position, and still having the same, or similar, arc polarity.

Another object of the invention is to provide ceramic metal halide lamps of the
Philips MasterColor.RTM.series that display excellent initial color
consistency, superb stability over life (lumen maintenance >80%, color
temperature shift <200 K at 10,000 hrs), high luminous efficacy of
>90 lumens/watt, high color rendering index of >90, a lifetime of
about 20,000 hours, and power ranges of about 150 W to about 1000 W, and
in which the arc bending problem is eliminated or at least minimized,
regardless of the orientation of the lamp in the fixture and regardless of
the relative position of the frame wire to the arc tube.

The arc tube cage and the arc tube medium are responsible for this breakthrough product.

 

[1love1earth]

very good info on that, nice to know not to go with a product that burns down the house.

So I've decided to replace one bulb that appears to be "dying". I have two 400 watt CMH bulbs, one of which I've been using about 3 months longer, but I never labeled which was which.

However, one of them has a very "neutral/natural" bright color, whereas the other seems more dim, and more of a blueish light, than the other, which in comparison is more red, and natural.

Thus I assume it is the dimmer and blue'ish one that should be replaced. It also seems as though the plants under this bulb are stretching and reaching for the light a good bit more, and node growth is a bit more spaced, though not terribly so. This could just be the plants, I dunno.

Regardless, now that I'm 2 weeks into 12/12, and have seen the first bud start to take shape, I know I need to get the bulb replaced, or else it'll start to hurt the yield.

I'm growing about 8 or so plants under a SCROG setup in coco, LST'd well, and looking nice. They are clones, one or two "Big bang" fem'd from GHS, and the rest are all "Satori" from mandala, with the exception of one Hashberry started from seed, just sex'd fem.

The room is 2.5 ft by 6 ft by 6 ft tall.

Again lighting is two 400 watt CMH's with sun system ballasts and super sun 2 aircooled reflectors.

Now that said, I've also decided on adding a 250 watt HPS bulb to my grow room.

I'm thinking it certainly will at least increase the yield enough to pay for itself. In theory that number would be ~1/2 oz, or 14 grams. Odds are very good that it'll be more than that.

However do I need to worry at all about mixing spectrums? (CMH and HPS)

What about placement?

Or should I just place the bulb where there's currently the least amount of coverage?

My previous (and first) grow was a hot mess, started with 60 seedlings (stupid),6 different strains, veg'd for 3 months, waaaay too crowded a grow room, no space, they reached the ceiling during their stretch, no LST'ing, had to chop them back twice before switching to 12/12, and then tied them back massively. I even had a tiny bit of seeding occur.

However in the end I got 12 ounces of really good pot, and I mean that, the grow smoothed out in the last 8 weeks.

I learned alot, and this grow is much better. However I really want to max out my yield, and hit .75 grams per watt, about double what my last grow was.


I also have one last question. I have two 105 watt CFLs 5000k. Is there any harm in putting them on the floor shining upwards? Or could this cause more harm than good?

I'm just looking to max out my yield any way that I can, and specifically here with lighting.

 

[a6grow]

anyone have experience with CMH and auto-flowering strains such as Lowryder? please give a newbie some suggestions as that is the route i am planning. thanks!

 

[messn'n'gommin']

For a6grow: In answer to your question, no, I have no experience with auto strains. But, while I know the CMH is considerably less intense and does not have the quality of light as the sun. It is my honest opinion, that it is the next best thing and I would think they were made for each other.

mess

very good info on that, nice to know not to go with a product that burns down the house.

So I've decided to replace one bulb that appears to be "dying". I have two 400 watt CMH bulbs, one of which I've been using about 3 months longer, but I never labeled which was which.

However, one of them has a very "neutral/natural" bright color, whereas the other seems more dim, and more of a blueish light, than the other, which in comparison is more red, and natural.

Thus I assume it is the dimmer and blue'ish one that should be replaced. It also seems as though the plants under this bulb are stretching and reaching for the light a good bit more, and node growth is a bit more spaced, though not terribly so. This could just be the plants, I dunno.

Regardless, now that I'm 2 weeks into 12/12, and have seen the first bud start to take shape, I know I need to get the bulb replaced, or else it'll start to hurt the yield.

I'm growing about 8 or so plants under a SCROG setup in coco, LST'd well, and looking nice. They are clones, one or two "Big bang" fem'd from GHS, and the rest are all "Satori" from mandala, with the exception of one Hashberry started from seed, just sex'd fem.

The room is 2.5 ft by 6 ft by 6 ft tall.

Again lighting is two 400 watt CMH's with sun system ballasts and super sun 2 aircooled reflectors.

Now that said, I've also decided on adding a 250 watt HPS bulb to my grow room.

I'm thinking it certainly will at least increase the yield enough to pay for itself. In theory that number would be ~1/2 oz, or 14 grams. Odds are very good that it'll be more than that.

However do I need to worry at all about mixing spectrums? (CMH and HPS)

What about placement?

Or should I just place the bulb where there's currently the least amount of coverage?

My previous (and first) grow was a hot mess, started with 60 seedlings (stupid),6 different strains, veg'd for 3 months, waaaay too crowded a grow room, no space, they reached the ceiling during their stretch, no LST'ing, had to chop them back twice before switching to 12/12, and then tied them back massively. I even had a tiny bit of seeding occur.

However in the end I got 12 ounces of really good pot, and I mean that, the grow smoothed out in the last 8 weeks.

I learned alot, and this grow is much better. However I really want to max out my yield, and hit .75 grams per watt, about double what my last grow was.


I also have one last question. I have two 105 watt CFLs 5000k. Is there any harm in putting them on the floor shining upwards? Or could this cause more harm than good?

I'm just looking to max out my yield any way that I can, and specifically here with lighting.

The first thing that jumps out at me is the age of your bulbs. If less than 10,000 lours, I would wonder if it was a one-off type thing in the manufacturing process of the bulb or if it could be a possible problem with the ballast?

Personally, I really wouldn't worry to much (heat management taken into consideration) about adding HPS to the mix. Although, the CMH bulb by itself will do the job well, I would think you would see an accumulative effect by adding a good surge of RL during flower. Also, if it were me, I would place the single HPS between the two CMH's and rotate the plants (if possible) anywhere from each day to once a week.

Lastly, I don't think it will hurt to place the CFL's so they shine 'up," I just don't think it will help much. It is the tops of the leaves that most of the chlorophyll is concentrated. But, adding the HPS will give you 70W's/sqft and adding the CFL's (to an appropriate height) will give you 84. If you can manage the heat and placement of the bulbs, I say go for it!

Namaste, mess

 

[simba]

a6grow..one my girls run a 70watt cmh with LR#2 and loves it..

 

[1love1earth]

well, here's what I'm thinking...

Plants cannot be moved, the SCROG makes it impossible. I'm loving the SCROG btw, it's almost a completely even canopy. I'm trying to get the plants under my 2nd light to stretch a bit more (I raised the light way up yesterday, prolly ~1 to 1.5 ft above plants) to meet the plants under the 1st light, which have stretched more.

Regardless, I don't think it's the ballast, though that would be super easy to test, simply swap the ballasts/lights. That said, I was running one CMH for about 2 months of veg 24/0.

Between the two lights is likely where the HPS will go, the HPS won't be aircooled, so I'll need to account for this, but the other two lights have very nice cooling, and it won't be an issue. My room temps will be fine.

I'm thinking the CFLs could be overkill, and just a waste of time. There really isn't space for them up top, and down below they dry the pots out faster from the heat.

If I was to do anything, I'd prolly be best off adding two UV lamps (like the 100 watt mega UVs), and this grow room is going to be over after this run.

That said, two 400 watt CMH's on sun system ballasts, and a single 250 watt HPS running on a digital ballast, growing in canna coco coir.

I know adding the 250 watt will probably hurt my gram per watt ratio, but help my overall yield. While .75 would be awesome on 1050 watts, I just don't think I can hit that in my growspace.

 

[Anh Bi]

I am really enjoying my first grow with CMH.
The plants love it, and taking pictures under a full spectrum light is godsend.

 

[Mackawber]

Love the CMH, BUT, I'm tired of having to wait for a 600 watt CHM! I need lumens NOW! ....

When is Phillips or somebody else going to provide the market with a 600 or 1000 watt bulb?....

I'm in mid flowering now and I may switch to a 600 watt HPS for the last 2 weeks!

 

[CTSV]

Love the CMH, BUT, I'm tired of having to wait for a 600 watt CHM! I need lumens NOW! ....

When is Phillips or somebody else going to provide the market with a 600 or 1000 watt bulb?....

I'm in mid flowering now and I may switch to a 600 watt HPS for the last 2 weeks!

From what I understand, there will be no 600 or 1000. The CMH is a bit too efficient, and last a bit too long. Good for the consumer, bad for the CMH seller. This is just my opinion. The 400s work great, and add a bit of versatility to your light array.

Ive got 1600w of CMH kicking my plant's ass. This is at day 22.