Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[agent88]

Hello guys,

Just registered on icmag forums because I became so interested in these cmh bulbs after reading parts of the thread.

I was wondering what you thought of using MH for veg, CMH for the transition period while it converts from using blue light to red light (therefore needing the full spectrum for a 1 - 2 week period, perhaps longer) and then hps for the rest of flowering.

I've given this a lot of thought and with the beneficial UV Rays aside I think this is the best way to go (im thinking that the reason cmh is good is mainly due to its full spectrum and not so much for its uv rays, if this is inaccurate please let me know).

Simplicity is great but I like doing as much as I can for my plants. I know they love HPS for flowering and the same with MH for veg so I feel that this cmh would benefit us growers more if we used it for the transition period from veg to flower rather than to replace the others altogether.

I will taylor to my plants needs as much as possible so if messing around with 3 bulbs is more productive than using 1 then thats what ill do, if its better with just the 1 then i'd do it the other way.

I dont mind buying all three bulbs so the cost is not really an issue for me.

Anyways guys I am a newbie so go easy on me!

 

[plugged]

I'd be interested to see how higher wattage CMH lamps perform. Guess I'll have to be patient.

 

[CTSV]

Running 1600w of CMH, and it's working like pro!

 

[plugged]

Running 1600w of CMH, and it's working like pro!

What wattage do your individual bulbs have? How's the life span? Does light quality/output degrade faster?

 

[OsWiZzLe]

Artificial Lighting: Powered by the Sun

http://www.maximumyield.com/article...yearVar=2008&issueVar=October&featureVar=true



using the cmh for the first 2 weeks sounds like a good idea...then HPS for the rest of flowering...in that article they state how the sun is emitting more blue rays in a specific range of nanometers during the spring...then how in the fall...theres so much more red and less blue....

this is why using the CMH during flowering all the way through kills your yield...all that extra blue...green...during flowering is the cause for smaller nugs and wayyyyyyyy leafier nugs.......but using it during the first 2 weeks of flowering sounds tight....sounds more like a natural tranisition thats occurs ...

th

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Artificial Lighting: Powered by the Sun

http://www.maximumyield.com/article...yearVar=2008&issueVar=October&featureVar=true



using the cmh for the first 2 weeks sounds like a good idea...then HPS for the rest of flowering...in that article they state how the sun is emitting more blue rays in a specific range of nanometers during the spring...then how in the fall...theres so much more red and less blue....

this is why using the CMH during flowering all the way through kills your yield...all that extra blue...green...during flowering is the cause for smaller nugs and wayyyyyyyy leafier nugs.......but using it during the first 2 weeks of flowering sounds tight....sounds more like a natural tranisition thats occurs ...

th

I beg to differ.
How do you figure yields are being killed? Any evidence to support that?
And just because the sun emits more red during the fall, does not mean that it will produce the fattest buds. We are already putting weed through an unnatural status by not allowing pollination, so the buds are already doing things that they would not normally do in a natural environment.
Yes, it has been shown that the HPS will provide a better yield than an equal MH HID, but comparing a CMH to HPS is not the same thing. It may seem the same, but all we need to do is look at the sprectral output of the CMH bulbs, and there is a clear difference.

And just because a bud may grow more leafy material with the CHM< does not mean that the buds are not also increased and fatter. I am seeing good evidence that the CMH is blowing anything of equivalent away.

But then, maybe you have some info to back up your assertions?

 

[Pinball Wizard]

I beg to differ.
How do you figure yields are being killed? Any evidence to support that?
And just because the sun emits more red during the fall, does not mean that it will produce the fattest buds. We are already putting weed through an unnatural status by not allowing pollination, so the buds are already doing things that they would not normally do in a natural environment.
Yes, it has been shown that the HPS will provide a better yield than an equal MH HID, but comparing a CMH to HPS is not the same thing. It may seem the same, but all we need to do is look at the sprectral output of the CMH bulbs, and there is a clear difference.

And just because a bud may grow more leafy material with the CHM< does not mean that the buds are not also increased and fatter. I am seeing good evidence that the CMH is blowing anything of equivalent away.

But then, maybe you have some info to back up your assertions?

well said...hd...

 

[messn'n'gommin']

So will the 150 cmh bulbs work with any of the digital ballast like Lumatek & Galaxy ?

Thx

Not unless it states specifically it is for CMH lamps, sorry.

Namaste, mess

 

[simba]

Oz, As usual you got pwned the second you spouted off..
you must read this thread every time there is a reply posted.. (just to see if you can use it to your advantage)

you will never win..
this thread is a perfect testament
117,268 Views
138 pages
2,057 Replies
1 year old Thread Topic
and the only complaint is YOU..
WOW>.

whats that say to me..

CMH rocks HPS/MH doesn't

hps and MH have many many complains (from crap bulbs to other heat issues)

Its over you lost..
Bush you need to concede when you make a mistake..

 

[agent88]

Perhaps it was foolish of me to suggest a view in contrast to the one you already have, you're obviously very comfortable with the cmh bulbs, after all the thread is 140 pages long, I could have guessed you would not agree with using it for a fractional period of the grow cycle (even it is clear and undeniable that the method has the potiential of improving our grows).

I am not saying hps is better than cmh. I am saying perhaps using all three is better than just one and where I can see clearly that the cmh is an effective light, there is no evidence that I see after looking at all of your journals and others I spent googling over the last fortnight to be knocking anything out the water.

Id say its about the same, cmh / hps offer a very productive light source for your cannabis plants. I'd go as far as to say hps will give you fatter buds with adequate heat control. Its obvious cmh gets its edge from the beneficial uv rays.

If I am wrong then share the evidence you speak of rather than beating people down as if you already are. I've now gone through this thread and I see no journals from anybody with plants putting out obvious improvements.

I understand that there is only a small amount of growers experimenting with this new type of bulb and so only time will tell.

But perhaps we should wait and see rather than exaggerating and putting down others creativity.

Myself, I will do a side by side grow with cmh vs mh/cmh/hps and will provide you all an unbiased report.

 

[agent88]

...bump

 

[simba]

agent88, to who are you reefering.. if me i be a sorry cat.. if not guess i took it wrong.
oz is something else check his history in this thread.. hes a "Troll".

. since i never answered the how long to use what bulb.. question..

lets first discuss the pics we see of hps vs cmh..
ya they look a bit better no monster mutants as called..
but we don't want that nor does any one else.. when all considered.

There is always a trade off. and yield does cut quality
(taste, intensity, etc )
<Not to debate the UV.. hps-retro cuts uv and yes the Full spd makes up for it and is needed in its own right>we still have waiving uvb amounts at 3-4foot range.. (philips is slow as molasis on this for some reason, leads me to think uv is getting out more than that uf cut is saying)


dont get me wrong hps was great as a Commercial lamp, many many Growers Stayed with MH for plants full life.. (as it provided the uvb and short compact plants impho id take MH plants Any day over HPS plants (for quality) (a good mh with somewhat full spd< Before CMH was readily available)

hps also has many many drawbacks..
Heat, Heat Price (for supposed great Horti bulbs)

Mh has even more drawbacks and Costs.. also re-lamping allot more than HPS or CMH..
but has some good results..
side note (i see and hear about Coral reef aquarium users using cmh now rather than standard MH and they are keeping alive coral Reef, that Need as much light as possible (full SPD) with intensity to penetrate the water

cmh is better than a good hps/mh combo without the cost of 2 bulbs and 2 ballast types..you can buy 2 hps ballasts 2 cmh and go full life for the cost of 1 set of hps/mh setups..

i dont say supplementing cmh with any thing is a waste.. but most do go a bit overboard..

The plant can only take in so much any ways.. going past that does nothing but deplete your pocket book that much faster.. (IE wasted Electricity) If you had a Proper Setup Incl Co2 and a smart controller you can go down to 10/14 with same yields.. (but that costs initialy to setup and most cant afford the first drop of $$)

if i was going to supplement a 400 cmh setup id go
HPS standard 250 watter..
t5ho 54 watt HO
Veg= 2 Actinic , Philips T5 Blue coloured Lamps
Transistion = nothing.
flower= 2 Philips T5 Red coloured Lamps
Id sudjest sylvanias but they are no longer made.. and philips just released few months ago so still kinda finding out exact Comparisons from hands on..
Using Deep Parabolic T5 Reflectors (not the horti crap out there that lights the walls up)

nah its great to experiment that's how im here..
just my 2 cents.. you need mh/hps or cmh not just hps during flower or else you will miss out on allot of quality (ref above)
also get some potassium silicate "silica" (cause cmh is going to need extra silica not found in most medias as silica is needed for cell reproduction and with full spd your gonna need it..

going to the plants being outawack..
we shorten there veg time down from nature
(with good reason we cant have a 15' bush in our house.) (cmh veg only few weeks (from seedling) from Clone veg only 1 week)
bush's end up be a waste, its kinda like ethanol from corn most ways making it are still using = natural resources just to bring to market.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Id say its about the same, cmh / hps offer a very productive light source for your cannabis plants. I'd go as far as to say hps will give you fatter buds with adequate heat control. Its obvious cmh gets its edge from the beneficial uv rays.

I'm curious what would be the catalyst for you thinking hps will provide a fatter bud? Using the assumption that the differing levels of spectrum color each provide a beneficial energy, and assuming that you are correct that including a mixture of these various spectrum colors, then looking at the spectral charts of CMH compared to HPS, one could hardly come to any other conclusion that CMH would indeed put out the fatter, healthier bud.

*Oh, an let's not forget the inverse square law that dictates the closer the better...and due to the heat profile of the CMH, plants can survive much closer to the light than they can with an HPS. More evidence of CMH being superior.

 

[agent88]

I'm so glad to see your reply, I thought Oz may have been unfairly treated before... maybe hes just a bad apple ?

One light instead of 3 is very easy stuff, so less hassle and the other benefits you talk of are great.

I'll still have to do my experimenting but even if cmh was less productive than different bulbs used together, so long as it wasnt drastic I'm sure people would consider the single cmh bulb through convenience.

For all the die hard hps or mh growers out there this is the way forward, for sure.

And if cmh by itself turns out to be more productive or even equal to the combination method then I will be happy only having to buy one bulb instead of three (simultaneously cutting costs whilst improving production) and ceramic mh will have gained a strong ally for its conquest to take over the world

 

[simba]

OS, comments in " " then my reply

"i love this loser calling me a troll...tonight i'll take pics of my set up and put u to shame son....i'm running 800 watts of CMH along 2200 watts of HPS....i've been running these CMH bulbs since march...i have real life results.....great herb...i never denied that....u just get a smaller yield...Simba your a online geek homie....get over the fact that your selling this product and any anything negative being said results in less money for u ....."

you have a Climate and Computer AKA (Harvest master) setup and Real CO2 injection and the other $$$ things that would PUT our grows to shame?.. cause thats the only way.. ya i have 650 watts cmh and 108 watts t5ho per 3.1x5'
infact im at the pc 10% of the day..
infact horti is a small part of the worlds industries.. you put to much stock in this logic..


"if ur bulbs were so next level....the industry of Horticulture which is superior to you and 5 cent online shop would have put these on blast for everyone to use....your excuse of production costs are just smoke and mirrors for your product..."

again you take crap out of context..
these are not in the horti market because the horti distributors buy horti hps for dirt cheap $7-15 and sell for $50-150+
cmh to a dist $15(for the uber comon small wattage CMH 39 watt) to the 400hps retro for $20-30
hmm you do the math.. what makes more money.. whos going to push lower profitable item the dist/store or growers/and people in the field for the greater good.
im not in it for $$$ rather the greater good.. if i wanted to make $$$$ i would sell you hps son t plus and Laugh all the way to the bank.. But do i.. think before you dig a hole..


"these bulb are useful.....however..the current CMH bulbs dont yield shit...Hoosierdaddy...your pics are weak dude...none of your CMH pics do any justice..."

first off. good genetics are KEY>> start with nirvana and who knows what ya got.. (good for the price but not for true comparison or conousour )
show me a Heavy weigh HPS cola that has WEIGHT>> oh you will never be able to ..
a MH any day will out weigh a hps (=wattage) and ya the hps may look bigger but it has no content. Fluf is worthless


"i;m testing these bulbs on strains that produce less leafy bud....lets see how they look in a few months...i will keep a log..i did everything u recommened Simba u loser...from your silica to ur veg periods...."

thats BS.. one youd be looking for a strain with High bud to leaf ratio then next a phenotype of high bud to leaf ratio....
(an outdoor strain will do wonderfully under CMH Preferibly from seedboutiqe


"lets see if u know your shit...i'm betting 100-1 i get way leafier OG Kush then i do from the HPS...to go along with smaller nugz..."

hope you get 4 grows under this before you start pouting any comments good or bad.. its gonna take you that long just to get the right pheno..


"all u lil kids running 400 watts and what not...dont try to talk to me...your setup aint got enough juice to jump start my legos."

boy you dont know me do you.. LOL your 2600 watts i can burn up 4000 watts with no effort (just on cmh side not on T5HO side)

infact during my nute test grow here we used 15 400 cmhs 20, 5,000k T5 HO's for what a total consumption of 6540watts Piss on that..(ran of Propane generator till it died from the amp draw)


"so are telling me that the abundance of Blue/Green/Violet have zero effect on the increased amount of leaves?"

no thats not what i said..
infact it does promote leaves. But not more leaves than it would outdoors.. (and if you grow indoor rated strains IE BS Strains bread under HPS. than you will get LEafy plants they are going to be like blue ay ya!!! lets get it while we can and then it has to go threw many polinating grows to come back to its Natural way)
and as long as you dont grwo a bush.. it will allow the plant to take that much more energy up..
think about it this way.. if i put one 4x4 solar panel up i get 10 watts lets say.. if i put 2 up i now gots 20 watts useable energy using same light source same with plants. more is better leaves dont use that much unergy (within bud to leaf optimum ratios)
they infact use less energy then they make thus providing a Net return
and with the full spd they flourish ..
under hps the leaf is actully at a net loss (super short versio) cause its dont get the full spd from cmh and isnt able to make as much energy per its footprint

 

[FreezerBoy]

Ever see the street sign, "Caution, slow kids at play." You have to watch out for the slow kids. None too bright, they'll jump into traffic to play tag with trucks. Go easy on Oz. It takes a village to raise an idiot.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

You know, ozwhistle...Seems like you spend alot of time in the infirmary. Every plant you grow has problems..and you have few clues as to what to do for them, or even what boneheaded thing you did to make them sick.
Classic newbie shit, pal.

You have no business baggin on anyone's grow, bar none.
How dare you run your underachieved lips in such a manner?
I'll just keep on growing fat juicy buds with big thick knuckled up calyxs, while you struggle with your pathetic sick plants, that are small and shriveled, very similar to the junk of fat boy large mouths, such as yourself.
Classic DO NOT DO THIS photos abound in your gallery.
At least someone has to contribute the crap grows so we can see what not to do. (shrug) So I guess there is a place for fat boys like you here.

 

[FreezerBoy]

FreezerBroad......dude I'm not even gonna comment on your 9 cent set up....

That's because you have less than 9¢ worth of wit.

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

Do not feed the trolls...they won't go away if you do...they are like varmints.


"I smell varmint poontang. And the only good varmint poontang is dead varmint poontang, I think..."


Leave them alone and they go away.
minds_I

 

[TGT]

EDIT: Sorry, screwed up 'cause my cat jumped on my keyboard, sorry.- See post below.