Can't figure this deficiency out

[exploziv]

Well if you are feeding 2 times a day and its still showing, as TanzanianMagic said maybe too much K is locking it out. A flush to lower the K levels would be a good option. Lockout problems are harder to diagnose than regular deficiencies, because plants eat more of what they need and leave behind more of what they don't. So those accumulate and play with the absorbtion of others when they get to certain elevated levels. But the diagnosis you got sure seems bang on. You could also look for nutrients with less K and more P..
And thank you, TanzanianMagic , your replies in this thread helped me see that my problem was P deficiency and Iron deficiency, not Ca and Iron, and maybe P, as I tought initially. In my case I just didn't keep up with the feeding, should have upped the EC way earlier than I did.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

Well if you are feeding 2 times a day and its still showing, as TanzanianMagic said maybe too much K is locking it out. A flush to lower the K levels would be a good option. Lockout problems are harder to diagnose than regular deficiencies, because plants eat more of what they need and leave behind more of what they don't. So those accumulate and play with the absorbtion of others when they get to certain elevated levels. But the diagnosis you got sure seems bang on. You could also look for nutrients with less K and more P..
And thank you, TanzanianMagic , your replies in this thread helped me see that my problem was P deficiency and Iron deficiency, not Ca and Iron, and maybe P, as I tought initially. In my case I just didn't keep up with the feeding, should have upped the EC way earlier than I did.

I was concerned that the K from the MKP foliar would be adding too much, not necessarily that the Jacks 5-12-26 had too much.

For now, I'm doing a daily foliar with MKP and adding a 3rd feed.

Any other thoughts on adding just plant available P, let me know.

 

[Devoted2rolling]

You're saying Phosphorus, Another is saying Calcium, and yet one more is saying that Boron is holding back the Ca.

Very frustrating to say the least.

Calcium deficiency will curl the margin of new growth into side skirts. If it's Boron the entire midrib will curve, not just the soft tissue. Deficiencies don't start on old growth. That's not how plants work. Blisters on new growth become necrosis on old growth. Those dark halos are sugars attempting to penetrate the scar tissue. You can tell exactly what your nutrient profile is by where the sugars are stalled in the plant. No Boron and low Zinc.

Rid your mind of weed forum nonsense of you want to learn how plants grow. No one on these forums understands any of the buzzwords and acronyms they throw around. The internet weed scene is like special Olympics autism camp. Guys renaming basic things and talking out there ass 99.9999999999999999999999999999% of the time. It's fucking sad. Sponsored by nute companies who purposely fuck everyone's grow up and propped up by dumbass marks and shitseed shills.

​​​​​​​ #watertek #livingsuperkashi #originaloghazeskunk #doyouevenvpdbro

 

[ButterflyEffect]

Calcium deficiency will curl the margin of new growth into side skirts. If it's Boron the entire midrib will curve, not just the soft tissue. Deficiencies don't start on old growth. That's not how plants work. Blisters on new growth become necrosis on old growth. Those dark halos are sugars attempting to penetrate the scar tissue. You can tell exactly what your nutrient profile is by where the sugars are stalled in the plant. No Boron and low Zinc.

Rid your mind of weed forum nonsense of you want to learn how plants grow. No one on these forums understands any of the buzzwords and acronyms they throw around. The internet weed scene is like special Olympics autism camp. Guys renaming basic things and talking out there ass 99.9999999999999999999999999999% of the time. It's fucking sad. Sponsored by nute companies who purposely fuck everyone's grow up and propped up by dumbass marks and shitseed shills.

#watertek #livingsuperkashi #originaloghazeskunk #doyouevenvpdbro

I've noticed a lot of misinformation for sure. Not saying anyone on this post, of course, but I've seen it and I get why certain folks would want to screw up grows. I think some of the more complex nuances just elude some people. There are indeed a lot of complexities to growing.

That said, are you saying that I have a Boron and Zinc issue? How do I actually learn to figure these things out on my own?

 

[exploziv]

I was concerned that the K from the MKP foliar would be adding too much, not necessarily that the Jacks 5-12-26 had too much.

For now, I'm doing a daily foliar with MKP and adding a 3rd feed.

Any other thoughts on adding just plant available P, let me know.

It doesn't happen that way. The antagonism are happening in the soil/growing medium, so because there is too much K in the rootzone, P absorbtion is blocked.
The foliars are just a fast way of adding nutes straight to the leaves, even when soil nutrient balance or PH is broken. So this is most probably NOT happening because of the foliar. If anything at all, those have helped keep them better.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

It doesn't happen that way. The antagonism are happening in the soil/growing medium, so because there is too much K in the rootzone, P absorbtion is blocked.
The foliars are just a fast way of adding nutes straight to the leaves, even when soil nutrient balance or PH is broken. So this is most probably NOT happening because of the foliar. If anything at all, those have helped keep them better.

Ok cool. I'm good then. The Jacks I use is very well balanced, so there isn't too much K, or anything in excess.

That's good to know about the rootzone vs foliar. I didn't know that. Thanks for that nugget!

 

[Roadblock]

Why does your rainwater read 30ppm, I use rainwater and mine reads zero, what are you catching the water in, what is the surface material of the roof and or any metal fittings in the piping, do you live near the coast.

Had a buddy that was using zincalume rain tanks catching from a gal roof and it did similar to his plants, for him it was zinc toxicity, not a deficiency.

 

[Creeperpark]

Its not Phosphorus or you wouldn't have resin on the buds. Its not Boron because Boron is the catalyst nutrient the very first nutrient on the chain link to begin the nutrient chain. Your plant would not even be here if it were out of boron. Also to respond to Tarzan comment, if you have a complete fertilizer and maintain the proper pH, there is no way you can have a lack of any nutrient or OD your plant into lock-out.

Most fertilizers are made with the home grower in mind. Most home growers use tap water that is buffered with calcium hydroxide and so most fertilizer companies hold back the calcium for this reason. If you use RO or Rain you need to add cal-mag to the water to stabilize it and fortify it with Calcium and mag. There is not enough Calcium in most fertilizers and needs to be supplemented when using Rain or RO "not tap". If your mix is buffered properly there would be no problems. If you were over-feeding the other plants would show the same disorder. https://www.marijuana-seeds.nl/blog/calcium-deficiency-in-marijuana My apologies for the mixed messages. I'm out of here.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

Why does your rainwater read 30ppm, I use rainwater and mine reads zero, what are you catching the water in, what is the surface material of the roof and or any metal fittings in the piping, do you live near the coast.

Had a buddy that was using zincalume rain tanks catching from a gal roof and it did similar to his plants, for him it was zinc toxicity, not a deficiency.

Other than the occasional sanitizing I do with bleach, I'm not really sure. It goes up to 50-60ppm in the spring when the trees are blooming, but other than that who knows. I treated the roof so it wouldn't leach anything and the tanks are plastic. I do run the water through a 2 stage sediment filter and then a 4x10 big blue carbon block.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

Its not Phosphorus or you wouldn't have resin on the buds. Its not Boron because Boron is the catalyst nutrient the very first nutrient on the chain link to begin the nutrient chain. Your plant would not even be here if it were out of boron. Also to respond to Tarzan comment, if you have a complete fertilizer and maintain the proper pH, there is no way you can have a lack of any nutrient or OD your plant into lock-out.

Most fertilizers are made with the home grower in mind. Most home growers use tap water that is buffered with calcium hydroxide and so most fertilizer companies hold back the calcium for this reason. If you use RO or Rain you need to add cal-mag to the water to stabilize it and fortify it with Calcium and mag. There is not enough Calcium in most fertilizers and needs to be supplemented when using Rain or RO "not tap". If your mix is buffered properly there would be no problems. If you were over-feeding the other plants would show the same disorder. https://www.marijuana-seeds.nl/blog/calcium-deficiency-in-marijuana My apologies for the mixed messages. I'm out of here.

Thanks again for the help creeper!

I'm using the Jacks Hyro 5-12-26 with their CalNit at a 3:2 ratio. Other than completely switching the food around, which I'm not entirely comfortable with at this point, the only thing I think I could do would be to move closer to a 1:1 ratio. This way there would be more calcium in the mix. Do you think this would work the same way as adding calmag prior? If not, how would I do that? Like I said earlier, each res is filled with water and mixed about 6-8 hours before it gets pumped and each res lasts 3-4 days.

 

[Three Berries]

My last bunch of rain water was 30 ppm. Not a lot of rain though and not flushed, pH was high too at 7.4; about a 1/4" of rain. The roof shingles do have the anti algae copper in it.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

My last bunch of rain water was 30 ppm. Not a lot of rain though and not flushed, pH was high too at 7.4; about a 1/4" of rain. The roof shingles do have the anti algae copper in it.

My pH is about 6. If you can do a first flush, I'd highly recommend one. I also have sediment filters, carbon filter and a UV setup. I felt it was good insurance for a raw water source.

 

[Three Berries]

I'm using it in soil so not too worried about impurities. And it's usually in the low to mid 6s pH wise. I was out and had to take what I could get. Just got some rain last night and the pH of that was 6.6. Well water is 7.4 and 425ppm. I use to mix the two. Was doing a cup of well to a gallon of rain. Then this year went half and half. Back to just rain and whatever gets added now.

Winter here so I have to empty the barrels after I fill the jugs. Need at least a 1/4" of rain to get around 100 gallons.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

Just spitballing here.

I wonder if I could add the well water from the main house to my tanks? Say at 25% of total tank volume. The total capacity is about 825 gallons. Maybe 200 gallons at the most. The well water is a pH of 5.9 and has a total hardness of 300ppm(84mg/L of CACO3). Total Dissolved Solids is around 500ppm(.7 scale). That would give me the buffer. The pH is almost identical to the rain and the total hardness would be around 75ppm. The only thing I'm not sure of is I hear conflicting reports as to whether this Calcium is usable by the plants or not. Every convo I've seen seems to leave out some context or why.

Thoughts?

 

[Three Berries]

This blog mentions soft rock phosphate for the calcium/phosphate lockouts.

https://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/1940

Soil tests will tell you if you have the correct pH and if the soil is too acidic, a recommendation to apply lime will be included. Generally, a lime application such as “high calcium” lime, dolomitic lime, and gypsum (calcium sulfate) will contain calcium in forms not readily available for plants’ immediate use. My recent soil test showed very high levels of calcium, and the pH is also a little higher than I prefer. However, I know from watching my plant growth that most of the calcium in my soil is not available to my plants. My solution after lots of research, is to apply a soft rock phosphate which is colloidal phosphate: a highly soluble natural source of phosphate and calcium. Soft Rock Phosphate will aid greatly in raising Brix in your garden. (I use CalPhos but there are others available.) Soft rock phosphate is not the same as rock phosphate, Tennessee Brown Rock phosphate, or hard rock phosphate. All those do contain calcium and phosphorus, but in soft rock phosphate the calcium and phosphorus are in a colloidal form and thus readily available.

Soft rock phosphates are only mined in a few parts of this country, notably Florida where they were laid down eons ago by bony marine animals. Soft rock phosphate also comes from the process of washing rock phosphates of the colloidal compound on the phosphate surface when they are mined. I heard there is a recent calcium find in the Nevada desert thought to be a superior form of calcium, made from marine plant life, but it is not widely available. It is marketed as Kelzyme.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

This blog mentions soft rock phosphate for the calcium/phosphate lockouts.

https://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/1940

I don't believe I can use that as I'm in a perlite mix. Thanks for the suggestion though!

 

[ButterflyEffect]

I'm using it in soil so not too worried about impurities. And it's usually in the low to mid 6s pH wise. I was out and had to take what I could get. Just got some rain last night and the pH of that was 6.6. Well water is 7.4 and 425ppm. I use to mix the two. Was doing a cup of well to a gallon of rain. Then this year went half and half. Back to just rain and whatever gets added now.

Winter here so I have to empty the barrels after I fill the jugs. Need at least a 1/4" of rain to get around 100 gallons.

Thankfully, my tanks are protected from freezing. Plus I have another 500 gallons in another location on the property that are also protected, so I can pump them up to the main tanks when the winter comes and there's little to no rain.

 

[120Octane]

If it was Phous you would have puple or red leaf stems and all over the main shaft would be purple...Most people always say cal mag when its not lol...Look up the mineral wheel and you will see what combines with what element to work...

The M.O.S.T. if I used it along with a base mineral type of fert would rocket me into K deff pretty quickly so keep a eye out for that

 

[troutman]

Keep light off of your water containers and algae won't grow.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

If it was Phous you would have puple or red leaf stems and all over the main shaft would be purple...Most people always say cal mag when its not lol...Look up the mineral wheel and you will see what combines with what element to work...

The M.O.S.T. if I used it along with a base mineral type of fert would rocket me into K deff pretty quickly so keep a eye out for that

Putting in a bit of CalMag to buffer the water initially still seems to be a good idea since I use rainwater. I know the plants needed another feeding in the cycle so it's possible it was using up a lot of nutrients in that time. The vermiculite in the mix has a high CEC but the media could still be leaching away elements. We'll see where the recent changes bring me.