canna a and b us feeding schedule?

[repuk]

Absolem do those post # refer to the h34d goes coco thread? Trying to read all them but post number doesn't seem to match...

 

[siftedunity]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=55683


the numbers are on his first post

 

[repuk]

thanks siftedunity... yes that'¡s the same thread I was using. But my trick to "make up" the straight URL for the post (like this one for #11) doesn't work the way I thought... will locate them it by hand

BTW I switched to Canna A + B today. 2ml/L on 20% tap 80% rain water (0.015 EC, around PH8) set me to 1.4EC, and nailed out PH to 5.8 which puzzled me... didn't have to use a single drop of PH down for the first time in my life!?!

I'm scratching my head regarding the analysis I posted. The first one specifies Ca, and Mag. But then there's that bicarbonates result... given the alkalinity (PH 8) I'm sure there's something more to Ca/Mag in this water than the 34-10mg/L the first analysis details, that screws the nutrient profile.

Natural water from wells has that same PH8 (nearer 9), here the underground is mainly comprised of a yellow limestone, Calcarenite (albero). So seems to do tap water. We had a serious drought last year than fixed itself with February snow and rain so possibly analysis will vary in a short future.

Won't be short on rain water for a while, but will run out in less than a month. Maybe having a RO filter will be the solution, at least I'll be positive regarding the water analysis is close to nill with regards of dissolved salts.

 

[siftedunity]

man I just switched to an ro filter. so glad I took the jump because I got sick of trying to figure out issues and having to assume the water was fine. and in all fairness it definitely wasn't consistent, even in smell and taste.
the only downside is the wastage . but tbh I think it will pay for itself.


as for your water analysis, im really not the person to ask. maybe someone else can chime in on that..

 

[Absolem]

thanks siftedunity... yes that'¡s the same thread I was using. But my trick to "make up" the straight URL for the post (like this one for #11) doesn't work the way I thought... will locate them it by hand

BTW I switched to Canna A + B today. 2ml/L on 20% tap 80% rain water (0.015 EC, around PH8) set me to 1.4EC, and nailed out PH to 5.8 which puzzled me... didn't have to use a single drop of PH down for the first time in my life!?!

I'm scratching my head regarding the analysis I posted. The first one specifies Ca, and Mag. But then there's that bicarbonates result... given the alkalinity (PH 8) I'm sure there's something more to Ca/Mag in this water than the 34-10mg/L the first analysis details, that screws the nutrient profile.

Natural water from wells has that same PH8 (nearer 9), here the underground is mainly comprised of a yellow limestone, Calcarenite (albero). So seems to do tap water. We had a serious drought last year than fixed itself with February snow and rain so possibly analysis will vary in a short future.

Won't be short on rain water for a while, but will run out in less than a month. Maybe having a RO filter will be the solution, at least I'll be positive regarding the water analysis is close to nill with regards of dissolved salts.

Good looking water report. Very friendly for growing. Those are the total ppm's for Ca and Mg. They list the bicarbonates separate from Ca and Mg to give the viewer the actual mg/l for each element. If they listed Ca as CaCO3 the ppm's would be listed higher and need to be converted to Ca. To convert CaCO3 ppm's to Ca multiply by .400. CaCO3 ppm x .400= Ca ppm.

wow thanks for your advice. yes I will try what you said for sure! is it cool to use regular food grade Epsom salts?

Yup on the Epsom. The Epsom you buy in stores is the same salt used by nutrient companies. It's one of the main ingredients in bloom boosters and bloom formulas. Just make sure on the label Mg is listed at 9.8% and sulfur at 12.9%.

https://www.gileschemical.com/our-product/magriculture.php

A few things I found growing in coco.
Feed the coco at least 75% nutrient strength for the first week then go full strength till the final 10 days. We feed the coco to feed the plant. Unless the cation exchange (CEC) is filled in coco the plants will look overfed/underfed. I found clones with spaghetti roots will get purple stems while clones with thick roots won't after transplanting. When my plants under perform the answer usually lies in a weak root system. Without a good root ball it doesn't matter how dialed your environment or nutrient profile is the plants just suffer.

 

[siftedunity]

thank you man.. I will try what you said

 

[repuk]

Good looking water report. Very friendly for growing. Those are the total ppm's for Ca and Mg. They list the bicarbonates separate from Ca and Mg to give the viewer the actual mg/l for each element. If they listed Ca as CaCO3 the ppm's would be listed higher and need to be converted to Ca. To convert CaCO3 ppm's to Ca multiply by .400. CaCO3 ppm x .400= Ca ppm.

Thanks!

Yup on the Epsom. The Epsom you buy in stores is the same salt used by nutrient companies. It's one of the main ingredients in bloom boosters and bloom formulas. Just make sure on the label Mg is listed at 9.8% and sulfur at 12.9%.

https://www.gileschemical.com/our-product/magriculture.php

Damn, now I remember... I used Epsom salt too on my last grow... for goods results I'm realizing! completely forgot I also had deficiencies back then (secondary effects on memory!). A look at my fert box and there it was...

But... lists analysis as 16,6% Magnesium, and 32.5% Ca? epsom salt from VDL Systems brand. What!?

A few things I found growing in coco.
Feed the coco at least 75% nutrient strength for the first week then go full strength till the final 10 days. We feed the coco to feed the plant. Unless the cation exchange (CEC) is filled in coco the plants will look overfed/underfed. I found clones with spaghetti roots will get purple stems while clones with thick roots won't after transplanting. When my plants under perform the answer usually lies in a weak root system. Without a good root ball it doesn't matter how dialed your environment or nutrient profile is the plants just suffer.

You mean 75% at repotting time, of the final target EC? i.e. If targetting for 1,5EC, when repotting using fresh coco, EC shouldn't be higher than 1.1EC?

Today I repotted, I think an indicator that the switch to rain+Canna was for good is girls are throwing about one inch of tap roots per day.

But still, I feel there's something missing. Some strains display slight signs of def, while others don't, e.g. from my current seedlings: Zamaldelica, Nepal Jam, Guawi, Kali China and Tai Chi, only the two Zamaldelicas show odd leaf coloration "inconsistencies".

 

[repuk]

Let's look at Canna a different way that will get us much closer to H3ad solution profile.

Canna Coco 8ml/gal. Yara SOP 52(potassium sulfate) @ 1/2 gram to a gallon. Total
N.............121............. ....................0......... .............................. ...................121
P..............42............. ......................0....... .............................. .....................42
K.............60.............. ....................57........ .............................. ...................107
Ca...........98............... ....................0......... .............................. ....................98
Mg..........33................ ...................0.......... .............................. ...................33
S.............15.............. ....................24........ .............................. ....................39


Absolem's Canna Profile with Yara SOP 52.......... H3ads 6/9
N........121.................. .............................. .......97
P.........42.................. .............................. ........60
K.......107................... .............................. ......105
Ca......98.................... .............................. .......97
Mg.....33..................... .............................. ......41
S.......39.................... .............................. .......27

These are the numbers I gave my Canna friends before they switched to Jacks. They would run this till the end of week one of 12/12 to help reduce the stretch. Then drop the Yara SOP 52 down to 1/4 gram/gallon and add Pk 13/14 at rate of 2.5mls/gallon for a P=37 and K=77 through weeks 2-5 of 12/12.

I don't get that... Doesn't Canna Coco A+B already have P=42? Won't adding P/K increase P higher than 42?

 

[siftedunity]

well spotted.. maybe he forgot to add the total for that.

 

[Absolem]

You mean 75% at repotting time, of the final target EC? i.e. If targetting for 1,5EC, when repotting using fresh coco, EC shouldn't be higher than 1.1EC?

Yes. If your full nutrient strength is 1.5 EC feed around 1.1 EC for the first week after transplant.

I don't get that... Doesn't Canna Coco A+B already have P=42? Won't adding P/K increase P higher than 42?

Yeah, I should have noted that adding Canna P/K 13 during flowering weeks 2-5 will increase the total P to 79 ppm and K=165 ppm. I only gave how many ppm's Canna P/K 13 would add.

12/12 Weeks 2-5
Canna A/B 8 ml/gallon...Yara SOP 52 1/4 g/gal.....P/K 13.....Total
N..........121...........................0.............................0.........121
P............42...........................0.............................37........79
K...........60...........................28............................77.......165
Ca.........98............................0..............................0.........98
Mg........33............................0...............................0.........33
S..........15...........................12..............................0.........27

A lot of good info on P in this thread.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=191007&highlight=myth+high&page=6

But still, I feel there's something missing. Some strains display slight signs of def, while others don't, e.g. from my current seedlings: Zamaldelica, Nepal Jam, Guawi, Kali China and Tai Chi, only the two Zamaldelicas show odd leaf coloration "inconsistencies".

Canna by itself has really low K. When I ran Canna's nutrient profile I had some problems too. I added more K and the problem went away. That's why I recommend adding the Yara SOP 52 to correct the low K in Canna.

 

[siftedunity]

I wonder why canna has a low amount of k in their coco nutrients?

 

[Absolem]

I wonder why canna has a low amount of k in their coco nutrients?

Coco coir degrades at a constant rate and releases 30-50 mg/l or 30-50 ppm of K for the plants to use. I think they over estimate how much K the coco will release and add to the nutrient profile. That's why Canna doesn't want people cutting their coco coir with perlite because the more coco coir you remove and replace with perlite means you are cutting down the K levels even more.

 

[siftedunity]

I see..
I did want to post my old advanced nutrient ppms but I kinda feel its a bit off topic. I had great results with it even though the numbers are no where near heads or cannas. will post it anyway for conversations sake.

 

[siftedunity]

sensi bloom A + B @ 8ml per gallon (4L)
5-4-8 ( A= 3-0-0 b= 2-4-8 )
Nitrogen (N)

.........................................with bigbud:

Total nitrogen 117 ppm ........ N 117
phosphorus(p) 41 ppm ......... P 50
Potassium (K) 154 ppm......... K 207
Magnesium (Mg) 14 ppm........ Mg 14
Sulfur (S) 9 ppm................... S 9
Calcium (Ca) 49 ppm.............. Ca 49








have had problems with N toxicity recently but for years this formula has worked very well prior to the issues.

 

[repuk]

Yes. If your full nutrient strength is 1.5 EC feed around 1.1 EC for the first week after transplant.

note taken, thanks!

Yeah, I should have noted that adding Canna P/K 13 during flowering weeks 2-5 will increase the total P to 79 ppm and K=165 ppm. I only gave how many ppm's Canna P/K 13 would add.

12/12 Weeks 2-5
Canna A/B 8 ml/gallon...Yara SOP 52 1/4 g/gal.....P/K 13.....Total
N..........121...........................0.............................0.........121
P............42...........................0.............................37........79
K...........60...........................28............................77.......165
Ca.........98............................0..............................0.........98
Mg........33............................0...............................0.........33
S..........15...........................12..............................0.........27

A lot of good info on P in this thread.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=191007&highlight=myth+high&page=6

Understood

Canna by itself has really low K. When I ran Canna's nutrient profile I had some problems too. I added more K and the problem went away. That's why I recommend adding the Yara SOP 52 to correct the low K in Canna.

I found how to source it! 25Kg (about 1€/Kg) but will also use it on the orchard. I guess to ease things you can dilute it in water for easier dosage (measuring ml's instead of grams at mixing time?)

Would you'd better use a Yara salt product instead of Canna's PK 13/14?

 

[sethimus]

Coco coir degrades at a constant rate and releases 30-50 mg/l or 30-50 ppm of K for the plants to use. I think they over estimate how much K the coco will release and add to the nutrient profile. That's why Canna doesn't want people cutting their coco coir with perlite because the more coco coir you remove and replace with perlite means you are cutting down the K levels even more.

so if i'm using mills coco and cork (50% cork) i should rather increase my K?

i'm asking because i tried heads formula and i only had sub par results. since i switched to peters 3-2-1 formula (substituted with hakaphos 4-12-26) my plants are thriving, but my K levels are more than the double amount of N and my Ca levels are 3/4 of the K level, looks like that formula works better with this substrate

 

[siftedunity]

seth.. this is my question.. I was using a nutrient combination with double the amount of K in the mix than N. and yet didn't have any issues that looked specific to K toxicity.

 

[Absolem]

so if i'm using mills coco and cork (50% cork) i should rather increase my K?
co
i'm asking because i tried heads formula and i only had sub par results. since i switched to peters 3-2-1 formula (substituted with hakaphos 4-12-26) my plants are thriving, but my K levels are more than the double amount of N and my Ca levels are 3/4 of the K level, looks like that formula works better with this substrate

Hello,

I really don't know much about cork as a growing medium. I'm guessing it has good porosity but lacks in holding water like coco coir or peat. Cork should be quite inert unlike coco or peat.

I like your nutrient profile for that mix with the increased K. 100% coco coir requires less K and more Ca as seen with Canna or H3ad's nutrient profile.

How fast do your containers lose moisture until you feel like you have to water again?

 

[sethimus]

Hello,

I really don't know much about cork as a growing medium. I'm guessing it has good porosity but lacks in holding water like coco coir or peat. Cork should be quite inert unlike coco or peat.

I like your nutrient profile for that mix with the increased K. 100% coco coir requires less K and more Ca as seen with Canna or H3ad's nutrient profile.

How fast do your containers lose moisture until you feel like you have to water again?

i water about 1,6l each day, over 2 cycles in 12l pots:

(i increased the vpd yesterday, to increase transpiration)

 

[sethimus]

my actual feeding looks like this:

PPM Total PPM Nitrogen Total (N) 109,36 Phosphorus (P) 75,25 Potassium (K) 229,78 Magnesium (Mg) 56,36 Sulfur (S) 131,75 Calcium (Ca) 141,49
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with 7,5g Hakaphos Basis 4, 5g Calcinit, 2,5g Epsom and 1g MKP per 10l of 50/50 ro/tap water (around 0,3 EC) for a total of 1,5 EC