CANADIAN HEAT LENS CAMERAS ON HELICOPTERS

[CanadianGrower]

In Canada is it legal for police to use heat lens cameras over homes to find grow ops? this is my biggest nightmare!!! Is that allowed in Alberta Canada? Any one got knowledge on this?

Having a high electrical bill? at what point does en max notify police?
Im switch all my normal home lights to low voltage to help keep bill down.

 

[guineapig]

You will want to start researching something called "FLIR" (Forward-Looking Infared Radar), as this is the type of camera they would use in order to pinpoint sources of heat which might indicate the presence of a High Intensity Discharge light.......

I am not sure about laws in Canada, but the USA supreme court has ruled:

"In 2001, the United States Supreme Court decided that by performing FLIR surveillance of private property without a search warrant, law enforcement violates the Fourth Amendment's protection from unreasonable searches and seizures. Kyllo v. United States, 533 U.S. 27 (2001) [1]"

Now what loopholes exist to circumvent this, i am not certain........hopefully you will find more information on this subject....

kind regards from guineapig

 

[CanadianGrower]

I have only been able to come up with case in 2004 witch it is legal to use FLIR in Canada, court says their not actual looking in to the home. But for hot spots on surface of home. I'm shitting my pants here lol. How hot does 400w hps lights get? I'm venting using a 3 inch vent out my roof. Any tips for not getting busted? A/C possibly?

 

[guineapig]

ok first thing, take deep breath and calm down......

the venting out of your roof, is it a home-made exhaust port, or is it used to vent from other rooms (like bathroom, etc....)?

i suppose you could hook-up your Air conditioner to mix in with the vented air so it would cool it down considerably.....or, you could shut off the hot air exhaust permanently and switch to using air conditioning to cool your room (odors can be run through an activated carbon filter inside the house).....

It is absolutely possible (with air-conditioning) to eliminate the heat-exhaust from your roof (which you are concerned could be picked up on FLIR).....however, subtle temperature differences could be seen on the walls, so it still could be theoretically possible for FLIR to detect you that way.....

Please, let me assure you that a 400 watt light is not the scale of grow-operations that FLIR would be targeting......they are after larger grows, really, and i think they would only FLIR you if they had good intelligence about your activiteis (i.e. you TOLD SOMEONE about your operation).....

I totally empathize with your fear......it is totally understandable, especially when you might have a lot to lose (i.e. job, children, property, etc), and the government has succeeded in scaring the living daylights out of everyone, that is for sure.....

ok, so, take a deep breath and then lets try and solve the problem......a few people hereabouts know A LOT about FLIR, and i will try to contact them for you....

kind regards from guineapig

 

[CanadianGrower]

im going to be running 2 400hps for flowering and fluorescents for veg, so my only concern is the heat of the hps light, Ive come up with the idea to insulate around exterior of flower room that right next to ceiling and walls to help keep that heat away form walls. But my carbon filter exhaust system will have high heat, from growing aspect is awsome. Since this exaust fan is going to be running almost 24/7 to maintain temp. Its 50cfm fan not much... and 3 inch china cap on top of roof, and blends in with every thing in my complex. My grow is im townhouse complex. Their are tons of vents on the roof for plumping and boilers.
ths for looking in to it

 

[JamesChong]

Your two little 400 hps lights aren't going to be a issues. Calm down and you'll be fine. From what you already posted. Your doing the right thing. By keeping your room temperature down and like the rest of the house. You should be fine and no worries. A water heater will put off more heat then your two lights will and if you keep the room cool. Well, then your doing the right thing.

This is how it basically works. They have their FLIR unit mount on the front of the chopper. The unit will scann forward. The co pilot will watch the vido screen and look for a pattern. Once they see "what" they think is a heat signature. They will do what is called a fly by. Now, there are two types of LEO pilots. There are the smart ones and the dumber ones. The smart one will fly over the house or location. Once they get a good general look at the place. They will fly a pattern in the area. They will either make it look like they are looking for someone or helping a ground unit. Another trick the smart pilot will do. Is turn on the search floor light and hit the ground like they are looking for someone on the ground. This keeps the grower some what feeling safe. Now, they are hitting the ground with the flood light. Every time they make their sweep. The co pilot is watching that screen and maybe recording the video. Yes, they can record and then later on show to a judge for a search warrant.

Now, for the dumber pilots. They aren't to bright and they just fly over a location. If they find something they think is a grow location. They will circle around and make more passes. Now, they will either hit the house directly or a circle pattern. Away's pointing the nose of the chopper at the house. The more the nose is pointing at the house. The better and wider the picture is. Now, I have heard from friends. That some of the newer units can turn to some degree, but not much.

Loop hole

If you live in the usa like allot of us. Well, legally they can't scan the location without a warrant. NOW, this is how they get a warrant to do their legal scan of the house. It's called "FISHING". What happens is this. The LEO pilot will be doing his or her swift. They will be supporting ground units throughout the night. Well, when they are flying to different locations. They will have the FLIR unit on. They leave it on so they can hopefully key on a signal. If this happens in route to a call. The co/pilot will mark the location and then do a quick fly over later on. Well, if the location keys a signal. They will kick it down to a ground unit for maybe a trash pull, or a illegal quick search of yard while owner is out. The ground units will make it look like they are looking for someone and see if they can either see something through a widow or smell anything.

Now, this fishing method they use is illegal here in the states, but it's their little dirty trick they use. Now, if your keeping your place cool and venting out in a good location. One should be good and always listen to where a chopper might be flying. If one is getting close. Turn your light off, but leave the fan on. The fans will cool the place pretty quick with the light off. As long as you got good strong fans.

My 2-cents, if I even hear a chopper coming near my place. Everything is coming down. I've had my running with the law and I don't want it happen again. Good luck and sometime this spring. I will have a full complete write up all about FLIR with pictures of unprotected grows and protect grows. I will have access to a couple of units this spring and I will be sending in article to some magazines and posting it here.
Good luck,
BG

PS, Depending on the unit and type that is mounted on the chopper. They search for two things.

1. The differences in heat temperature of the location.
2. The wavelength of the light bulbs.

I'm trying to find out for sure, but I think they only have the units that scann the first one and not the second. The wavelength scann cost some major cash and I don't think they have the funding also.

OH, they scann in White Hot and Dark Hot mode. You can search this on yahoo.
Stay safe

 

[Reality]

Wow, I've always wondered about this. Great Thread!

 

[Verite]

Its winter time. How many furnaces and clothes dryer vents are going to give off the same signature? Seems like 1,000's. At least enough to make the operation worthless to worry about.

 

[JamesChong]

Its winter time. How many furnaces and clothes dryer vents are going to give off the same signature? Seems like 1,000's. At least enough to make the operation worthless to worry about.

Hey Verite,

Your right on the money. When it comes that time of year. Your right, but when summer rolls around. Watch out and be safe. One thing in the winter months. Watch the roof of your place. I read a article in a good new paper. That you could spot the grow houses on the street by the snow that was melted off the roofs, but I have family up in Maine. That has some system that melts the snow. To keep the snow load down.

Another thing about these units. They scann the "area heat" which is the heat inside the room and they scann the radiated heat that transfer's through he walls. So, when your looking at the FLIR screen. You are seeing two things. The heat temperature inside the room and the heat that is radiating through the walls. If you search google. You can find some pictures. Showing you what a place looks like. They use hand held units to help save energy with out homes and make new homes more energy efficient.

If you vent your grow and don't get to crazy with the amount of light wattage. Most of the time one should be fine.
Take care,
BG

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

Hey Verite,

Your right on the money. When it comes that time of year. Your right, but when summer rolls around. Watch out and be safe. One thing in the winter months. Watch the roof of your place. I read a article in a good new paper. That you could spot the grow houses on the street by the snow that was melted off the roofs, but I have family up in Maine. That has some system that melts the snow. To keep the snow load down.

Another thing about these units. They scann the "area heat" which is the heat inside the room and they scann the radiated heat that transfer's through he walls. So, when your looking at the FLIR screen. You are seeing two things. The heat temperature inside the room and the heat that is radiating through the walls. If you search google. You can find some pictures. Showing you what a place looks like. They use hand held units to help save energy with out homes and make new homes more energy efficient.

If you vent your grow and don't get to crazy with the amount of light wattage. Most of the time one should be fine.
Take care,
BG

you asked for it!!






its hard to beat the FLIR....
a V.good a/c system....????
anyways, just somthing to enjoy.

 

[JamesChong]

Thanks DigitalHippy

You will notice the two different pictures. These are different setting on the unit. The first one is showing "direct" heat sources. These are things that are on. I'm guessing the lower wide heat source in the top picture. Is going to be some lights. Then if you look at the widow shot. You will see something small. This is either a light on a desk or maybe a stove top.

You will notice in the second picture posted. This is the normal reading you would get on these unit. This show everything from the different temperatures. Everything from the temperature of the ground to the house. If you notice on the side of the picture. You have a temperature bar. This lets you see the temperature per area. Notice the roofs off to the left. They are running about 90 degrees. Now the other part of the house. They are allot cooler. This is just to show you the different in temperature throughout the house.

Now, like others have posted. These units are not cheap and not all LEO have them. There is Federal funding programs, but it's still allot for these units. Also, fuel for the flights is cheap also and the upkeep maintance on the chopper. Now, if your running a few lights. Most of the time your going to be safe. These units are more for large ops. Large ops put off allot of heat and I mean allot. Small time grower's have less of a chance of being spotted then anything else. If you vent, cool, and insulate your grow well. You should not have a problem. Again, this spring I will do a full write up on the subject. I will be sending a nice article and pictures into a magazine and I will be posting it here also. This is something I want grower's to know about, because as technology gets cheaper by the day. Whether we like it or not. This is going to be the future tool for all LEO. You can bet your *ss. Later on down the road. They will be carrying the hand held units with them. Take care and stay safe.
later,
BG

 

[hamstring]

JamesChong

Very nice write up and I would like to add something on the price of this technology coming down. I work in an industry where they sell the hand held units. (I know very little about the technology itself.) 2 years ago they had a huge price decrease on the hand held units(not used in choppers). Fluke, which is one of the larger manufactures of the hand-held units, brought their price down to 10K ($10,000.00), which was a substantial decrease. Today(one year latter) this same Fluke unit is under 6k. You can purchase a cheaper brand for 3.5k. Now the actual viewing screen not the heat detecting technology is holding up the price. The cheaper ones use a Palm Pilot as the viewing screen.

What I am pointing out is that this is becoming a mature technology market, which is driving down the price. I am sure the ones on the choppers are experiencing the same pricing decrease. Governments (city and state) are slow to move but in my opinion the time is coming when this will be a standard feature in every chopper.

Lets hope the laws do not change to accommodate the new technology!!

 

[JamesChong]

JamesChong

Very nice write up and I would like to add something on the price of this technology coming down. I work in an industry where they sell the hand held units. (I know very little about the technology itself.) 2 years ago they had a huge price decrease on the hand held units(not used in choppers). Fluke, which is one of the larger manufactures of the hand-held units, brought their price down to 10K ($10,000.00), which was a substantial decrease. Today(one year latter) this same Fluke unit is under 6k. You can purchase a cheaper brand for 3.5k. Now the actual viewing screen not the heat detecting technology is holding up the price. The cheaper ones use a Palm Pilot as the viewing screen.

What I am pointing out is that this is becoming a mature technology market, which is driving down the price. I am sure the ones on the choppers are experiencing the same pricing decrease. Governments (city and state) are slow to move but in my opinion the time is coming when this will be a standard feature in every chopper.

Lets hope the laws do not change to accommodate the new technology!!

Thanks for your post. This is what I was trying to get across. As more and more time goes down. These units are only going to get more cheaper and affordable for these LEO departments. Meaning they will be able to mount them to more and more Choppers and also fix ground units with the hand held units. The Fluke is a good unit. This is one of the units I'm going to have access to this spring.

I'm going to be testing a few different units and models. Fluke, being one of the better units. I know it's hard to believe someone online. When they say the famous words "Trust Me", lolol Wait till this spring and I will show you before and after shots. There are some easy ways around this, I just want to be "DAMN" sure before I post anything. I've got some friends that have been testing different types of materials. Some are looking to be better then others. Hang in there and I will give you the in's and out's.

But for now, if your a small home grower. They aren't looking for you. They are looking for the house that has been gutted and turned into a grow house. These houses light up the screen on the FLIR units. Big heat blooms. Take care and good luck.
Stay safe,
BG

 

[tenfeetofganja]

Loop hole

If you live in the usa like allot of us. Well, legally they can't scan the location without a warrant. NOW, this is how they get a warrant to do their legal scan of the house. It's called "FISHING". What happens is this. The LEO pilot will be doing his or her swift. They will be supporting ground units throughout the night. Well, when they are flying to different locations. They will have the FLIR unit on. They leave it on so they can hopefully key on a signal. If this happens in route to a call. The co/pilot will mark the location and then do a quick fly over later on. Well, if the location keys a signal. They will kick it down to a ground unit for maybe a trash pull, or a illegal quick search of yard while owner is out. The ground units will make it look like they are looking for someone and see if they can either see something through a widow or smell anything.


PS, Depending on the unit and type that is mounted on the chopper. They search for two things.

1. The differences in heat temperature of the location.
2. The wavelength of the light bulbs.

I'm trying to find out for sure, but I think they only have the units that scann the first one and not the second. The wavelength scann cost some major cash and I don't think they have the funding also.

That's right, even though they hardly ever put those helicopters to use, they are out there EVERY night. I spend nearly $600 a month in gas on my v6 SUV. I could not even imagine what it might cost to run a helicopter for 4-6 hours per night 25 days out of the month? And if they just "accidently" happen to wander by your neighberhood with thie IR cameras then all is fair and legal...

As to your statement about IR cameras. First off, let me state IR Cameras were originally designed to SAVE peoples lifes, not ruin them. It's first apperance was during the korean war, when the skies were so full sut and sediments that had to use IR in order to safely drop paratroopers.

They soon found their way into the hands of firefighters, who with the help of IR could find "hotspots" in a fire, or people trapped in a building on fire. They can even be found in higher-end luxury cars to help aid drivers from obstructions in the roadways!

Now, they are so cheap every PD in america has at least one (if not on their helicopter than its a handheld IR camera).

There are two types of IR cameras. The one more commonly used by police are uncooled infared detectors, mainly due to their durability and the fact it is much cheaper than a CID (cooled infared detector), which are more commonly used among research labs.

Basically, IR cameras work on what is called an Electromagnetic Spectrum. All objects put off something called black-body radiation, depending on what the temperature of the object, effects the amount of radiation given off by thus object.

These cameras used to only run on a single wavelength which would could only produce monochromatic (single colored) images, which made it much more difficult to determine the source of heat. Then they upgraded their cameras with "psuedo-color" which would change color based on the amount of radiation and not due to intensity. In recent advancements, IR cameras have a full color spectrum and can accuratly map heat sources, record them, and save them to a digital video recording unit built on their helicopters.

Im sure it is more information then you really wanted to know, but im sure it will be beneficial to others.

Also, CanadianGrower, please keep in mind that uncovering a personal grow isn't going to be much of a concern to your police. The reason they keep IR cameras running is because they are hoping to find those surburban mega gardens running at least 20k lights and stealing power.

However, if you have your intake/exhaust optimized heat should not be a problem. Look at the design of your house, and wherever heat "should be coming out" (i.e. washer/dryer exhausts, bathroom exhausts, attic vents) should be where you are venting your heat. Personally, I cut off air cirulation from the house's vents. then exhaust all my heat through those vents, which run to the attic (where are heater is) so basically if they were to IR my house they would only see what appeared to be a house with a heater turned on heating the rooms..

I have yet to implore this new "invention" but they have THERMAL SHIELD out which suggests that it can block the radiation that the IR cameras pick up on. Personally, I have a hard time believing that it will work. But it probably couldnt hurt. Its times like this id like to get my hands on a hand held IR and do some tests of my own...



irie meditations...

10ft ganja

I even vaguely remeber someone on overgrow talking about how the shut off water to their toilet and exhausted their hot air through means of the plumbing. (However, I could be mistaken.)

 

[JamesChong]

very good post. The black-body radiation is what we call Black Hot in the Army. There is also White-body radiation also. Pretty much, any living thing puts off these types of radiations. I personally liked White while using some of my gear while serving in the Army. I could spot troops allot easier, then black hot. The unit I was using in the Army was a hand held third generation unit and was AWESOME.

I'll make sure to post plenty of pictures this spring. I'm hoping the units I use. Will have a memory card slot. So, I can take screen shots and post them. If they don't, I'm going to have to take a picture of the screens. Should be some fun when we start playing around with the units.
Take care,
BG

 

[coolx]

Don't know whether I should make a new thread, but what IR shielding is there? This thermal shield above - what is that? I know there is that stuff from Home Depot - 3" thick insulation or something and also on a Youtube video, I saw a grower using some foil - anyone know what kind? What's the best way to insulate?

 

[green michine]

so would a 400w be okay to use? actually...looking at those photos I doudt that'll help.
I hope the UK does'nt change there laws.

 

[medical_shed]

It's possible to hire the IR devices btw, if you're really worried it's the only way to find out how bad your house looks.

 

[Verite]

They would still be hard pressed to tell the difference between a basement grow room and a furnace. The unwarranted searches are also illegal in the US so they arent going to bother spending 10 grand on some technology where 99% of the judges are going to want physical evidence before a warrant is issued anyways.

If the technology was being used in any way to bust growers the growers would be talking about the evidence from court and it would be common knowledge up here by now. The fact there isnt anything out there regarding flir and pot busts would be strongly evident they arent using it. To think they are using it and everyone is conspiring to keep it a secret would be humorous at best.

 

[JamesChong]

Morning Verite,

This is not a joke and I know for a fact that they use the units in my area and large cities. I also have many old time friends. That used to deal and then later turned into cops. I've asked them about these units and they told me the same thing. Yes, the sky cowboy uses these units.

The Trick

Like I posted before. They use the units to fish. Once they find a place that they think is a grow house. They kick down the address to a ground unit. Then a ground unit will do a drive by. Once they know which house it is. They will do a "Illegal" trash pull or walk on the property. Looking or smelling for evidence. They will also go up to the door. Saying they are looking for someone. Hoping to either smell something at the door or see something when you open the door.

This is how they get away with anyone knowing they are using the units in their area. They will use ground evidence for the warrant. They do "NOT" want people to know they are using these units in the sky. If people where to know they where using the units. Even non growing people would be having a fit. Before anyone is going to tell me i'm talking out my backside. I have a few amount of friends. That's i've know and partied with since K-Grade. All ex dealers and bad cops. They tell me a few nasty little tricks they use. It's not right, but it helps.

OH, PS. They aren't using unman planes to fly over Texas either. That's why the local police had a area all blocked off for flight testing. People believe what you want, but I "WILL" be showing you the difference in protected grows and unprotected grows. You will see the difference yourself.
Take care,
BG