@peace
Well-known member
I recognize that top map. I'm from legal Canada and it is how I have been planning future visits to the states lol, anywhere dark green. New Mexico just entered the list of places I will go.
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Canada to decriminalize hard drugs in pilot study
- Thread starter Cuddles
- Start date
Apparently everything I have said has been misunderstood by you.
Brother Nature
Well-known member
You even look at that site? Below is another drug they sell there, pretty sure there is no where in the world where illegally produced Heroin is importable. That's a good fucking price though....
Brother Nature
Well-known member
There is a growing movement of doctors and psychologists pushing for better research into psychedelics and mental health. Even MDMA has proven to have valid use in treatment of PTSD. DMT has always been a useful tool for myself when trying to understand some of the harder things in life that we face from time to time. Nothing like blowing your reality away in order to reset it. I've never been able to micro dose shrooms all that well, most of the time I don't get it right and the world is much more sparkly and funny than I'd prefer while at work haha. Always prefered the slight energy boost from microdosing lsd, a bit easier to dose too, though when you get it wrong it's a lot harder to hold it together in normal society.
moose eater
Well-known member
The early 1980s saw the Liverpool Project in the UK dispensing synthesized heroin and cocaine for folks who had 'proven' they were addicted. Not sure how you do that with either cocaine or methamphetamine, as neither one is -physically- addictive (though hellaciously psychologically addictive; "Dopamine's a liar" Say it with me..), but I do know that urine testing to qualify back then was an issue that caused some laughter. Here they were doing everything under the Sun, safe or not, to avoid a dirty UA. At the Liverpool Project a dirty UA was a big part of the qualifying ticket. So folks who wanted to become accepted into that program were chomping at the bit to produce a dirty UA.
But more recently than that I had recalled (hopefully not in error in my memory) a maintenance program involving heroin rather than methadone or suboxone, and I believe it was in Holland several years ago; maybe longer ago than that, but certainly WAY more recently than the Liverpool Project.
That said, and having spoken with my family member who administers a methadone/suboxone program, among other services, the concept of a 'clean' maintenance program utilizing pharmaceutical grade (synthesized) heroin, is not a horrible idea. The key is in the phrase 'maintenance dosing.' Not "Let's get fucked up on some clearn government-supplied black Afghani," but rather, "lets keep the pain/pangs down, and the cravings at bay."
Safe injection sites around Vancouver, BC have been making intermittent news in the harm reduction world for years, as well... with varying legal statuses over that time period.
Gil Puder would be pleased if not proud of the harm reduction and drug policy reform movements there.
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moose eater
Well-known member
I recall the reality of those who used heroin and opium, along with morphine while enlisted in the US military during the SE Asian 'Police Action.'Actually a minority become addicts with most opiate addictions stemming from legal prescriptions.
Here's some stats to consider instead of just anecdotes to prop up your erroneous opinion.
- About 20% to 30% of people who take prescription Opioids misuse them.
- About 10% of people who misuse prescription Opioids become addicted to Opioids.
- Approximately 2.1 million Americans have an Opioid use disorder.
- About 5% of people with an Opioid use disorder will try Heroin.
Looking at heroin specifically
- Roughly 0.3% of American adults are Heroin users.
- There are over 100,000 new Heroin users each year.
- More than 28% of 2019’s Opioid overdose fatalities were linked to Heroin.
Which makes it pretty clear that more people aren't getting hooked because they're looking for fun, it's driven by over prescription (specifically to men working in the trades which are one of the most at risk groups) that leads to bigger issues in a minority of the population. Most users learn to balance their use against their responsibilities just like any other substance. Sure addiction rates are higher comparing alcohol vs opiates (roughly doubled) but it's still a minority of users and jumping to the conclusion that treating that minorities issues as a health problem will somehow make the majority of functional people decide to take up an addiction is baseless. You're just projecting your values which are easily contradicted by the stats.
Addiction Statistics
Addiction is more common than many realize. Millions of Americans from all walks of life struggle with drug and alcohol addiction every day.www.addictioncenter.com
Nixon was aghast that so many GIs were toking on weed, and they sent a group of folks to study the drug abuse problems in the military in that region, and elsewhere.
On a mostly irrelevant side-note, the Airforce and Navy tended (in my review) to be the most drug-enjoying/using branches, though Marines gave them a run for their money.
When I was a contract civilian therapist for Uncle Sam's Army, it was the Army's firefighters (military firemen) who had the most common or frequent 'dirty' UAs. I figured it went with the turf. A person has to have some attraction to adrenaline and new or adventurous experiences to run into burning structures. Drugs can be kinda' like that.
But the 'Nam studies and the later follow-up or related studies, showed a significant percentage had tried opiates, even abused them while in SE Asia, but the addiction rates when they returned home (the stereotypical 'Sam Stone' a'la John Prine), as in folks who couldn't/wouldn't work at some sort of job, decent self-care, etc., and simply descended into the behaviors commonly (overly) associated with such living choices, was only about 4% of those who had used opiates in their time overseas.
The significance of the old "Set & Setting" shined through once more. Albeit in a novel way or definition to some degree..
But the important piece I took away from those reviews and synopses was that the vast majority of those who used opiates somewhat routinely, recreationally, didn't necessarily become addicted. Certainly not in the ways in which many folks anticipate such conditions to present as.
When I did spine surgery and then later a botched cancer surgery, I had access to all kinds of Oxycodone in the 5mg range, with no carrier (no acetaminophen, etc.). I used it sparingly and still have a fair supply that might one day help to facilitate my departure when the cancer becomes too great or other issues become overly bothersome. But I never felt anything even remotely resembling dependence or cravings during those times of recovery.
Which lends itself to another hypothesis in the field of harm reduction, and it's another that my family member shared a number of years ago.
There is/was a belief that some of the (especially) opiate addicts have more pain receptor sites (?) in their brain/nervous system than many other persons, and that many of them experienced some degree of 'pain' (discomfort) even under fairly typical circumstances throughout their lives..
Some of the persons who are/were believed to be members of such a group made statements sometimes about their first heroin high being the first time they thought they knew what 'normal' felt like. An absence of signals of discomfort? Made sense to me. And I'm hoping further research of ths question continues, if not answered already.
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moose eater
Well-known member
The primary clinic in Fairbanks had a somewhat firm -stated- policy of not prescribing opiates or pain-relievers to persons who were also using cannabis, especially routine medical cannabis use. They claimed a synergy between opiates and cannabis that I've never heard of.you are indeed fortunate to find one willing to buck the system. i'm not on any painkillers myself, but my DR doesn't want to even think about cannabis (his assistant is VERY open-minded). got three friends that have had their pain meds yanked because of cannabis, one lost hers because the high CBD pre-rolls she was smoking made her test positive. it's hell here in the Bible belt...and this is right under the buckle.
I think the bottom line for that clinic, and a thousand others like it, is that in the legal cross-fire over what is excessive or irresponsible in prescribing, versus what is too little or insufficient, they have chosen the safe side where liability and litigation are concerned.
I've been fortunate; all my docs know, or should know by now, that I'm using THC-A extract in sizable dosage, AND pursuing some sorts of cancer treatment. I've asked them not to put anything about my THC-A use in files/charts, as many of them are naive enough to think that because it's legal, there's no negative ramifications to come from it. Most have cooperated and not mentioned it in the charts. I dropped the one who didn't follow my instructions. (*They don't understand federal borders, security clearances, employment background checks, driving infractions involving ganja that are based strictly on blood concentrations rather than actual impairment, biases and such among insurance companies (who are sometimes simply looking for a reason to say "No."), etc.
I had an old Doc out of town, rural Alaska, who had a soft heart for persons who were suffering. Many a person looking to redirect their Rx to the streets for profit at ~$1/mg, or to simply get high, hit him up for favors over and over. And he had a difficult time saying no to them. Then the DEA put him under a microscope. He turned in that portion of his license that permitted him to write Rx's last year or so, and now has either retired, or simply sees patients, but referring to another source if a Rx is needed.
Smoking legal cannabis and soon MDMA LSD shrooms and more will be legal choice for me and those smart enough to live in BC Canada. Please enjoy either not doing "Illicit hard" dugs like cannabis or face going to jail while I laugh at ya.
Remember legal drugs are good and kill 10 million people per year while illicit drugs are evil and kill half a million per year lol just how fucking stupid are you?
Sure the Narcs lied about cannabis but they are telling the truth about all the other drugs, just how fucking stupid are you?
KARMA people really do get what they desire like in Muslim nations that ban booze drug rock and roll dancing and kit flying they love being miserable. I get to enjoy life while narcs cower in fear while they prey to God you got to love it!
Albert Einstein: "Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe,"
Remember legal drugs are good and kill 10 million people per year while illicit drugs are evil and kill half a million per year lol just how fucking stupid are you?
Sure the Narcs lied about cannabis but they are telling the truth about all the other drugs, just how fucking stupid are you?
KARMA people really do get what they desire like in Muslim nations that ban booze drug rock and roll dancing and kit flying they love being miserable. I get to enjoy life while narcs cower in fear while they prey to God you got to love it!
Albert Einstein: "Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe,"
St. Phatty
Active member
This will be easier to contemplate in an hour, when I've had my first puff of Cookies.
Somatek
Active member
How did you reach that number as it's not stated in the stats anywhere.
No, I was simply sharing the stats behind opiate addiction to contradict the assumptions previously stated. I thought I'd been pretty clear that I think addiction is a complex intersectional issue often involving poverty, mental health, physical health, social issues and other factors which is best treated as a health, not a criminal matter. Prohibition didn't work with alcohol, it didn't work with pot, so why would it work with coke/heroin/meth/etc instead of the more obvious reality that it just enriches criminals who have no problem exploiting marginalized people vulnerable to addiction.
You seem to interpret things to fit your opinion regardless of what's said and haven't made any compelling arguments other then asserting baseless opinions. Where are your peer reviewed articles showing that harm reduction strategies don't work and increase usage/mortality rates as claimed?
Somatek
Active member
You seem pretty triggered, where have I said that people should be like me when I've been arguing that harm reduction and letting people do what they want while offering support if wanted all along? Your anecdote about smoking vs heroin use is irrelevant without detailed context to compare how other choices affected you. What's relevant is that I've pointed out previously that terms like addiction/addict are vague, poorly defined and highly stigmatized and I generally use the terms functional vs non-functional user to shift the focus to whether or not someone's choices are affecting their ability to be functional, independent adults or whether their use is a problem and makes them dependent on others or abusive, etc. Does that sound like I'm telling people how to live or is it acknowledging the reality that some (more likely the silent majority quite honestly) people learn to use substances (whatever they are responsibly) and should be left alone, while recognizing the best way to help those people who do have a problem is by treating it as a complex health issue, not a black and white criminal one. You're not making sense and seem overly defensive/reactive instead of understanding what people are saying, which just undermines any points you're trying to make.
Somatek
Active member
That reminds me of a study I read 20 years ago that was looking at the long term drug usage of people over 40 years or something like that (I read it a long time ago and the specifics are long gone) which found that most used in their teens/twenties and then tappered off as responsibilities increased with only a minority becoming addicts. There was also something about there being a significant proportion of people who continued their drug use privately, while also living functional lives (holding good jobs, having families, etc). Which is why I prefer the terms functional vs non-functional user as people often base their ideas of addicts off of stigmas and the visible minority of problem users living on the streets. Which would be like forming your opinion about alcohol/drinkers off of your impressions of wino's living on the street, which ignores the vast majority of users who drink responsibly and don't end up homeless/broken. It clearly illustrates the issue is a complex intersectional one, not simply a case of people being irresponsible and choosing to use drugs/become an addict as some have suggested and which underpins the logic behind prohibition/just say no mentality. I'm kinda surprised it's such a controversial thread as I assumed most people on a pot site would understand substance use and the irrational nature of drug laws and why decriminalization/legalization is clearly the better path.
Nobody has said anything against the legalization of drugs.
It's pretty entertaining to me that there's people who think there's opposition.
It's pretty entertaining to me that there's people who think there's opposition.
moose eater
Well-known member
For some folks on the more conservative side of policy making, the term 'medicalization' brings fewer red flags than 'legalization' or 'decriminalization' might.
Yep, there are functional addicts in many walks.
Jerry Garcia's chief complaint and cause to further his abstainance from heroin/opiates, from my reading, didn't have as much to do with the more common complaints alleged to be voiced by many/most of those who are addicted, but rather, he reportedly commented on the hassle of trying to keep a connection for clean dope in so may places, and trying to score while on the road.. and he was on the road much of the time.
As written earlier, he kept 3-4 bands tuckered out around the calendar; Jerry G was touring something like 335 days of the year (??), and performing a lot of longer-than-is-typical shows.
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Re. biases concering drug decrim, etc., for hard drugs, as an example, there are those in the cannabis community who draw distinctions between their getting popped or using a drug, and someone getting busted for other substances. Some of that results from propaganda, some from the pointing of blame in (sometimes) less-than-resolved personal stories or those of family members or other loved ones, and other reasons, many of which include an absence of an understanding of the historical socio-political and racial seeds of the War On (Some) Drugs. That's part of my opinion, anyway.
Hell, look at what occurred in Alaska and elsewhere when permits for legal canna cultivation and sales went out, well before they could even be operationalized!! Those seeking licenses were vocally very eager to see those 'others' prosecuted and persecuted who had been operating in a gray or black market manner during the transition time, such as an outfit doing deliveries back then known as 'ACDC', and another one, as well.
I think there's a certain portion of human kind that wants to reserve special protections, compassion, or even understanding for themselves, while negating the legitimacy of those who live in substantially different ways. And the less they understand the deeper ins and outs, the more that bias is apt to be persent. Fear plays a part in it, I think.
Sure buddy why don't you check out how many people were and still are against the legalization of cannabis in Canada on this board. Both the criminals who profit from it and the NARCS who hate it.
FYI cannabis is a cash cow to a lot of growers on this board and they are dead set against its legalization.
What are you babbling about?
Who is a narc?
You have thrown the thread off topic with this shit and stuck your head in just to indicate your smug self-satisfaction.
The thing is, nobody has said that they want drugs to be illegal... you just keep rambling on about narcs and how you laugh and smoke joints.
I think laughing and smoking joints are good for the soul.
I'm pretty sure seeing people that aren't there and hearing things that weren't said is not great.
Who is a narc?
You have thrown the thread off topic with this shit and stuck your head in just to indicate your smug self-satisfaction.
The thing is, nobody has said that they want drugs to be illegal... you just keep rambling on about narcs and how you laugh and smoke joints.
I think laughing and smoking joints are good for the soul.
I'm pretty sure seeing people that aren't there and hearing things that weren't said is not great.
It's just an attempt to argue with anyone that will take the bait. Calling someone a narc is something a kid would say.
Three Berries
Active member
Had a mod on another reefer board tried to besmirch me by implying I was a narc. Bunch of Commies over there. Probably all Chinese bots.
