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Can the genetics be saved from plant with fusarium/pythium/stem canker?

maryjaneismyfre

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Rick work perfect I am sure...yeah brews also more effective considerably than spore application though both work...Brews do some wonders, the soup of concentrated enzymes, and concentrations of microbes thousands fold more than bottled products. Seaweed extractwise, do a side by side..one brewed or applied with a european kelp, and one brewed or applied with the southern hemisphere kelp. If you get much better results with the southern hemisphere one, ie. auxins get your plants going rather than cytokinins, then you can almost guarantee there is another unseen factor affecting normal hormone production/levels..and that normally viral in which case mini clone TC won't clean that up. Though your symptom might dissapear, your underlying cause not so it will return. This happened to a mate of mine, who taught himself TC to do that specifically, to get away from this fusarium that was causing him headache after headache, and it did...temporarily. Until he realized that the mini clone TC was not clearing his viroid, that was causing the loss of vigour and the susceptibility to the fusarium, his problem would in time return and the vigour and yield would go south and the clone success would drop to the floor again. Once he got that out of the way, like us, did the root rots disappear.

But..I had such success and dramatic results from the brew applications, that i now realize they were doing something dramatic too to the viroid levels in those crops I was flowering back then.. I had winter crops that finished up amazing, no mold, frosted as anything, all infected, but all exported, made grade and customers happy, bosses happy. The microbe soup, does something directly through its enzymatic activity or SAR triggerinng or something to viral infections too. Makes sense, our best anti-viral medicines are mushrooms. Also I brew all those microbes, in batches, and nuke my supply dams with peroxide, test peroxide levels till dropped to 0, and then nuke them with a big tank of microbe brew. I have pythium and fusarium and phytophthera in my water, I get it tested, well in the supply at least. After peroxiding and dosing with the brew, a week to two weeks later I've had samples drawn and for globalgap audits, lab tests done, and they always have conformed to drinking water standards hahah while back at the ranch its half treated sewerage water and farm runoff that i am forced to fill the dams with, Ecoli tests thru the roof in water I am pumping in but when I pump it out, its good to drink according to tests, ecoli and other fecal coliforms non detectable. So I can assure you, this shit works.. :) We have to get all our shit tested, bud, water, everything...one has to legally exporting..I have to produce to GACP etc. standards, we get audited, everything gets tested...so what i do and use works, as i can measure its success or not. Im in a very fortunate position the last few years. We are probably our countries biggest exporter. Years of struggling with no resources made me resourceful, but now I have resources behind me, though its not my weed I grow, I just take a salary now for last few years and also am teh technical partner in consulting business and fertilizer business. I've grown literally tons after tons of export weed and probably hundreds of millions of dollars worth of weed been grown on my nutrient formulas by others. But the biggest factor IMO for those that have the basics down, is moving past viral infections. I dont even see fusarium anymore or etc..i just see viral shit underlying, causing secondary infections from weak immune systems, or viral shit affecting hormones affecting roots affecting water consumption leading to easily overwatering your clones, or plants leading to root rots especially with the weakened immune systems..but fundamentally the root cause being viral induced loss of natural oooomph.

But brews do wonders..

About 2 months ago we had a flood in the area, other farm got taken out a few greenhouses of tomatoes, plants all a meter underwater, same here with half of a 10000m2 greenhouse of tomatoes at this farm, I had a brew ready for the dam and although the bags were all a meter under water, once the waters had subsided, the next day with bags all waterlogged still, I rather than throw the brew in the dam, dumped it into the tank and gave a super concentrated feed of just 200ml per pot from a 200000L tank to inoculate them thinking it be override wetting already soaked anaerobic bags. The brew actually was a few hundred liters of thick ass ready to go brew, enough for a 5million litre dam, so essentially a 25x concentration to normal...anyway the plants on the other farm, same tomato strains, rotted out, all the roots rotted out, the plants on my farm, are 8-10ft tall now supplying tons of tomatoes. and from the flooded half to the unflooded half one cannot see a difference in the plants. The protective assistance from beneficial microbes cannot be understated. I even trial speciality microbes for a lab, and tried one recently side by side with others, that makes auxins like IAA and gives it to the plants, but it didnt make a difference, with viral shit inhibiting auxins so much. Spraying IAA directly through kelp extracts, or just having uninfected of viroid/virus plants made the biggest difference in that order from least to most.
 
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maryjaneismyfre

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Agree, works well in hydro...requires less frequent inoculation than one would think though, depending on the little critters you've inoculated with..One issue with viral shit, is the re-use of medium, and a downfall for me is the microbiome that I've established goes to waste and I have too do it again each run, and each run where new coir is involved I have to deal with the inevitable fungus gnat, thrip and others that like to hide in the media. that smells the fresh new media out, until my microbiome is established..The difference is quite clear, and my media doesnt go to waste, gets reused on tomatos or peppers on one of the other farms, and then they get back to me to say there will be rows with thrip issues or, and then rows with media thats come from this farm and no issues LOL, so it works for some time after once everything is established. I'm using beneficial nematodes, fungi and bacteria in the media to prevent trouble and if I look at some media under a microscope there is a healthy population of natural predator mites also present..so wierd how the predators just also seem to be more resistant to the entomopathogenic fungi etc. some like lacewing larvae even prefer to eat aphids off plants where BB has been applied..Wierd but true..anyway..Must be down to the enzymes or something, the larvae liking its meal a bit precooked LOL..joking..
 

englishrick

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Rick what media do you recommend?
it depends what I want to do,, callus culture , root differenceateion, shoot differenceateion,,i want to try usinga bio reactor next and do 1000s at once,,,,

murashige & skoog (MS) is the basic mix,,,I basicly use a modified basal salts mixture, but I've found a few special bits that I use to modify it and ways to make it cheaper by cutting things out and using hacks , i like to simplify so ive worked out a few corners i can cut,,,

if you want rapid shoot proliferation il let you in on one of my special ingredients,,but il pm you,,, I hate putting this stuff online for companies to see as I believe black sheep farms watches me ,(I fukin see you guys),,I'm sure they absorbed some of my research into initation in relation to hops,,I spoke about something and a week later I'm seeing them post about it and didn't give Mr any credit,,wouldn't have minded if they had mentioned my name,,
 
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englishrick

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When I made my kit I actually approached a lab that my mum used to get equipment from for science practicals in class, my mum was a teacher and luckily they basically knocked up anything I asked for and sent me sterile bottles and vials,,I just had to give them the ingredients,,really convenient
 

englishrick

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Ive been bit by rooting media before.
Now, I let all rooting media get bone dry. Usually if they are pre-wetted, they grow nasty molds in the bag.
Then I rehydrate with water that has a good pour of EM-1. Soak those and squeeze underwater to saturate all matrices and not allow any dry spots.
1st 3 days once I plug my cuts the peat plugs sit in trays with a half inch to an inch of water with a 1/4 cup of EM-1. Any water used in the 1st 3 days has EM1. Its both a PGR and fungicide/bactricide.
On day 4 or 5, I dump the water out of the trays and let them go from wet to moist before adding just enough water in the trays to keep them moist.
No clone hoods.
Healthy roots in a week.
No prop lids,,,i like this,,I've seen it done before but never tried it,,,no lids would definitely help
 

englishrick

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Ive posted elsewhere in the past on this, not sure where though 🙃

Ive saved many nurseries in NorCal using EM-1 by terraganix.
The PNSB bacteria in there eats fusarium.
Problem solved, and no chemicals needed.

One nursery lost 500 clones day 1
I arrived on day two, we counted 2,000 dead clones.
Came back on day 3 with EM1, another couple thousand dead.
Day 4, only a couple hundred dead.
By day 7, all was well and you couldn't tell they almost lost their whole operation and all plugs were healthy and rooting again.

EM1 helps with PM, mold, fusarium. Helps a bit with others like septoria, but those types are more a sign of mineral imbalance.

I really like this post,,but I gota say bro ,,if you ain't getting rid of 1000% of the infection it might come back,,and if they sell clones it's not surprising locdog is stressed,,if loads of clone makers in cali are basically just dealing with the infection (stupendously with your help, I must admit),,it's kinda bad news,,,I fukin WISH all these expensive clone suppliers would just do multiplication invitro
 

Loc Dog

Hobbies include "drinkin', smokin' weed, and all k
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Was looking at bio reactors. Look at biocoupler. Found for 1/5th the price and just have to drill some holes and apply 2 micron filter patch. I understand it working for multiplying, but confused if it can be used for rooting, unless enough differentiation to know only to grow roots from base of plant.

Waiting on PPM from microclone, which was supposed to ship a week ago, and still has not. Hoping everything is not too far gone by the time it arrives. Plan on using that for first run of nodal cuts, and if results look healthy enough, will skip using the second time.

These are pictures of stem canker on latest clones. This was UK cheese, the best looking of 5 when they arrived, not even showing signs then, about 5 weeks ago. Exactly what MyNameStitch describes as stem canker. Have cheap camera and not good using it, but white band circling the lower stalk, and besides twisted upper growth and barely any root growth, it dies from bottom up with leaves not falling off on their own.

View attachment 20230928_202440A.jpg


View attachment 20230928_202919A.jpg
 

englishrick

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It actually looks like the same shit I got from the root riot (bonded peat pellets), it looks like your cuts came in the bonded pellets too,,

Have you considered the canker might be from white mold , mine became systemic

I manage to keep mine growing by upgrading to rockwool ,,,id say dont use the soil when trying to save stuff,,,the slimy roots come in waves but with a good root stimulator and zyme I can keep the plant going for cuts
 

Loc Dog

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It actually looks like the same shit I got from the root riot (bonded peat pellets), it looks like your cuts came in the bonded pellets too,,

Have you considered the canker might be from white mold , mine became systemic

I manage to keep mine growing by upgrading to rockwool ,,,id say dont use the soil when trying to save stuff,,,the slimy roots come in waves but with a good root stimulator and zyme I can keep the plant going for cuts
I bought the zyme. Is that just for rooting?
 

englishrick

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I like the bio coupler, but it's not s bio reactor in the way im referring to it, not sure if you was saying they are similar, but as far as I can tell the coupler is just a nice way to drain the explants from a water type media,,

when I say bio reactor it's basically a huge mush of cells that you grow ,,,it's so you don't need to make a million cuts ,,

You can use the bio reactor to do other things, but I'm referring to using it this way
 

Loc Dog

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I like the bio coupler, but it's not s bio reactor in the way im referring to it, not sure if you was saying they are similar, but as far as I can tell the coupler is just a nice way to drain the explants from a water type media,,

when I say bio reactor it's basically a huge mush of cells that you grow ,,,it's so you don't need to make a million cuts ,,

You can use the bio reactor to do other things, but I'm referring to using it this way
This is what I saw -

 

maryjaneismyfre

Well-known member
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Was looking at bio reactors. Look at biocoupler. Found for 1/5th the price and just have to drill some holes and apply 2 micron filter patch. I understand it working for multiplying, but confused if it can be used for rooting, unless enough differentiation to know only to grow roots from base of plant.

Waiting on PPM from microclone, which was supposed to ship a week ago, and still has not. Hoping everything is not too far gone by the time it arrives. Plan on using that for first run of nodal cuts, and if results look healthy enough, will skip using the second time.

These are pictures of stem canker on latest clones. This was UK cheese, the best looking of 5 when they arrived, not even showing signs then, about 5 weeks ago. Exactly what MyNameStitch describes as stem canker. Have cheap camera and not good using it, but white band circling the lower stalk, and besides twisted upper growth and barely any root growth, it dies from bottom up with leaves not falling off on their own.

View attachment 18923100


View attachment 18923102
Your second pic..have you trained or bent that plant on purpose, that clone at all? If not...I see one or two signs, but that branch out at 90 degrees unable to support its own weight, that would be the clearest sign..That you might run around in circles until one takes that out of the equation somehow.
 

Loc Dog

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Your second pic..have you trained or bent that plant on purpose, that clone at all? If not...I see one or two signs, but that branch out at 90 degrees unable to support its own weight, that would be the clearest sign..That you might run around in circles until one takes that out of the equation somehow.
That plant is screwed. Took 4 cuts weeks ago when it looked good and some look like they have tops clean enough to try. Some of the others look like hlvd with lateral branching, but topped so could be from that.
 

maryjaneismyfre

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na lateral branching after topping is almost a sure 100% sign, unless the genetic REALLY does that, but I've only one plant that naturally doesnt have reach for the sky branching once topped...I got a shock the first time I was topping clean moms, the ways they REACTED to the topping, having no viral shit inhibiting hormone production, IAA in that case, is night and day. You probably find on that plant, the clones rooted like shit (the one clean variety I've seen that has more sidewards branching but nowhere near 90 degrees roots like a mofo), and you probably find that that plant of yours doesnt drink as much as it should, ie. roots are weak ass. IAA and IBA hormones are intrinsically related in the biochemistry of the plant, inhibit one and will inhibit the other, so if plant showing symptoms also of hormones inhibited in root zone, I can almost guarantee you, its the weed aids aka hplvd hlvd etc..or combination of that and other virii or viroids and also opportunistic systemic pathogenic fungi or bacteria, phytophthora, kankers etc..infection too
 
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