calcium lockout? nute burn? please help!

[Shliite]

bushmaster does contain sea kelp.... and it also recommends supplementing WITH sea kelp throughout the grow.... i dont understand this. My K2's fan leaves are starting to look more and more like the Sweet Warp's with the copper colored edges on the fan leaves. I dont understand how this is possible... I have changed the res and washed it out with hot water and rubbing alcohol, there should be no bushmaster left in there. It also shouldnt be a calcium defficiency because i've been adding cal-mag....

All the new growth on the Sweet Warp still has some serious rams horns... i dont know how this keeps happening with the absence of bushmaster and the supplementing of cal-mag. Growth seems to keep coming... but looks so bad with all the curled leaves.

p.s. -whats up with the posting pics? i cant get anything uploaded.

 

[billbob]

What causes the ram horms besides lockout? Don't mean to step into this thread, but it might add light to it. I find the 'ram horn' problem when transferring healthy plants in 4" rw sitting in a tray to buckets filled with hydroton. Same nutes. Only difference is the plant is sitting in hydroton instead of the tray. Why would that cause 'ram horns' ?

any help or insight appreciated

 

[MynameStitch]

Add potassium shlitte; but I will say this; just because cal mag is there does not mean plants can absorb it correctly. You are in hydro so your ph and water temps have to be right for them to absorb it right.

Right now I would add potassium; you got recent pics of them?

 

[Shliite]

no problem billibob-

Obviously im no expert on the rams horns, because if i did then i wouldnt have them myself BUT...you can bet i've done a lot of research to try to figure it out... so let me tell you what i've heard/learned

What stage are you at? Veg? Flower? If so how long did you change the lights. Also- when you put the rockwool into hydroton, how high do you fill the reservoir? Is the netpot submerged in water? if so then that may be your problem. Did you rinse your clay thoroughly before use?

 

[MynameStitch]

Rams horns can be caused by to much nitrogen billy; but that is only one of many causes..... you got pics of your plants?
If you want; make a thread with as much detailed info about your grow possible and we can help you there; or if you already made one in a different forum link me and I will try to help you out.

 

[Shliite]

Add potassium shlitte; but I will say this; just because cal mag is there does not mean plants can absorb it correctly. You are in hydro so your ph and water temps have to be right for them to absorb it right.

Right now I would add potassium; you got recent pics of them?

Ya i took a lot of good pics but i cant upload them... Im not sure if i have a good enough source of potassium in my lineup... The largest is the PBP Soil formula bloom... which is 1.5-4-5. Is that not enough? Im about to change the res of the Sweet Warp. At 10 days flower and with the info you have- what would you suggest I add to my tap water? I have the following to work with:

PBP Soil forumla bloom
PBP hydro forumla veg
Cal-Mag Plus
Hydroguard
GreenFuse Bloom Stimulant
Blackstrap molasses
SUPERthrive
Maxicrop (sea kelp)
GH Rare Earth silicate soluble powder

I dont mean to sound like i need you to do all the work for me...but i want to get on the road to recovery as soon as possible. Seeing the stress this plant has gone through is depressing; theres been a lot of time and money invested in this girl so i want to see some better results

p.s. my digital pH tester came in today.

also- you recommended the cal-mag because my water is hard (~120 ppm). I have recently read that cal-mag is supposed to be used with RO water or water that is at a considerably lower PPM, like under 50. Is this true?

 

[SouthernSmoker]

my 2 cents

my 2 cents

Hey Shlite sorry to see your girls stressing like this .
Have you flushed those roots out at all ?

I would give them a good flushing rinse those roots real good and set them in a new mix of just pbp bloom and cal mag @600 to 800 ppm and see how they react to it then raise the ppm slowly over the next week or so
I would try 5mls pbp and 1 ml cal mag to start raise it slowly over the next week to 10mls pbp and 3mls cal mag .


Hope this helps

 

[Shliite]

thats good advice SouthernSmoker, Ill let them sit in plain tap water + hydroguard overnight and start adding stuff tomorrow. This will give me a little more time to find out exactly what i need in the res at this point. The rootball is massive, it almost fills up the entire 5gal bucket; the res was filled almost to the top 6 days ago and is now almost empty. I think the reason the horns have continued to appear on new growth is because that last res change had about 2/3 grow (and cal-mag) in it. Thats a lot of N for this far into flower and from what i've heard too much N causes the horns, among other things. With this in mind i'll retract that previous statement and start with a low dose of the Bloom in the tap water, with the hydroguard (because there is still some discoloration at the top).

I see that a lot of people add Sweet for carbs throughout flowering.... Would it be ok to add some blackstrap molasses? Or would that cause problems in my DWC w/ clogging airstones etc.?

 

[payn4school]

although they lost the civil war, the confeds know somethin about growing dope. I wonder if that would be legal if the south had been victorious...
Anyways FLUSH!!@#!@# for at least 24 hours, and raise the lights!!! Just run tap and hydrogaurd and ph it down to about 6. I would actually flush for 36 hours with the lights raised. then gradually start adding in the pbp and cal mag at 1, 5 and gradually raising it to 3-5 cal mag, and 10-15 pbp over 7 to 10 days while simultaniously lowering the light back down for optimal pennatration, YES!! ehhh n stuff. the bush master must be ran with just water for 3 to 5 days, no nutes, well a little kelp wont hurt. thats what caused your mess. the plant said uh uh, no more. its like trying do a rail of good white and go to an all you can eat buffet. just not gonna work out to well. okey im done now, that was re-donkulous

 

[payn4school]

oh yea, your tds will be pretty high with organics, not that it makes it useless just that its high. my bloom nutes end up at with an ec of 2.8 ! get some karma too, you can do with out the carbs for a while fatty

 

[Shliite]

EC of 2.8 means PPM of 2800 right? sorry but it doesnt give me those EC numbers. So with the organics, its not accurate? so i should follow the label and disregard when the number is outrageously high? makes sense... What does the karma do?

I'll flush and do as told, but the lights are at the highest they can go (the reason i used the bushmaster in the first place)... so thats not an option. But thanks for the help

 

[payn4school]

yep thats right, karma take care of your kelp supplement and its got alot other goodness that will help especially in times of stress. or i dunno, just use it like the rest of us sheep.

you are only on the first couple days of 12 12 right/?

 

[Shliite]

day 11 or 12...

im thinking maybe a little bloom? pleeeeeease?

 

[payn4school]

its your show, but i think in the long run a flush now will pay off.
good luck.

 

[MynameStitch]

Yes I would flush them out with a PPMS of that height; you did not tell me yout PPMS was that high you told me they were much smaller.

I need to see the size of the plant; try to upload a few pics now; whatever errror you get let me know what it is....

I would just use the calmag PBP bloom and a little maxicrop since they are still in early flowering you have to add a little nitrogen.

FLush them out real good and add that much.... I need to see the size of the plant to tell you what ppms would be good to start back at.

You have enough potassium you just added to much nutrients locking out others.

 

[Shliite]

well the image problems i had must have been the same as everyone else...because its working now.

Well i might as well show all the pics i've taken in the past few days...
Sorry none are really a full plant pic, but i took a picture of the closet to give a little bit of an idea.

Here are from today:





Also from today, closet pics:
The one closest to the camera is K2. The bigger one in the back is the Sweet Warp.






K2 Leaf pics from the other day:




K2 flower day 10:



earlier K2 flower:




And the close-ups pics of the Sweet Warp when i was trying to show up-to-date rams horns pics a few days ago:

 

[MynameStitch]

Damn dude it looks like you had WAY to much nitrogen in those; now that there clear pics; rams horn and all; dark green.... bush master had sea kelp which contains nitrogen; did you use any other products that had nitrogen in them?
How often was you using it and how much?

 

[Shliite]

well like i said a while back... The bushmaster and kelp additives were in the res for the first 3 days of 12/12 per the BM instructions. I was unsure what to put in my res after the 3 days of BM were up so i called the humboldt customer service line and they told me "because your going into flower, use bloom nutes" ...so thats what i had in my res for about 2 days. Rams horns didnt seem to go away and i was seeing what looked like a calcium defficiency... but may have been burn from the BM. After inquiring on this thread- a lot of people told me it was a bad idea to have switched completely to bloom that early in flower... so per everyones advice i switched back to about 60/40 for veg/bloom nutes.... then on day 10/11 of flower i realized the new growth was severe rams horns and it was probably because of excess nitrogen. I also noticed the leaves were also a VERY dark green color when i took them out of the HPS...nitrogen toxicity...so now im back to about 1/2 strength bloom to let them heal.

Sorry that was a ramble but i was in a hurry....

 

[MynameStitch]

Ya, thats your best bet; the darker color will go away but the rams horn won't go away 100% you will still see some curl to them; the first pics you uploaded did not show this problem, but they also looked dual which I thought was the camera color not the plant.