C4DD - info, grow-along and test grows.

[VerdantGreen]

sounds good sticking, good luck with the scrog


Shmavis, yes the variegation is a Chem D trait, not present on the Chem 4 AFAIK but it did crop up in the C4D cross too.


Glad that the other leaf problem is receding, possibly the dolomite helped and i'm sure they maybe needed a few days for the roots to populate the new soil too. If the roots get a little bound in the pot it can take an extra day or two for them to start spreading.
IMO rootbinding is often the cause of deficiencies rather than something lacking in the soil.
I grow in a 30 litre bed/tub atm and i can do 3 or 4 grows without re-amending the soil because the roots have plenty of space and dont get restricted.


VG

 

[Shmavis]

I guess my post was a bit confusing, I'm growing crosses of Chem 91 x 88g13HP (Chem Kesey) and the Chem D x 88g13hp (Hashplant D)... Wish I had access to the chem 91 cut Maybe one day!


I'm glad to be able to help a bit! Glad to hear the dolomite is doing the trick! Best vibes!

LOL. Yeah, I was next going to ask if you were running the cut or had went with an S1. If these flowers end up tickling my fancy, I will probably grab Nspecta’s ’91 S1 for the vault. Excited to see how your babies turn out! Supposed to be some strong medicine in those lines.

It may be the dolomite or it may be as VG suggests, a delayed population of roots, which makes sense. Either way, things are looking better. Best of vibes to you too!

 

[Shmavis]

sounds good sticking, good luck with the scrog


Shmavis, yes the variegation is a Chem D trait, not present on the Chem 4 AFAIK but it did crop up in the C4D cross too.


Glad that the other leaf problem is receding, possibly the dolomite helped and i'm sure they maybe needed a few days for the roots to populate the new soil too. If the roots get a little bound in the pot it can take an extra day or two for them to start spreading.
IMO rootbinding is often the cause of deficiencies rather than something lacking in the soil.
I grow in a 30 litre bed/tub atm and i can do 3 or 4 grows without re-amending the soil because the roots have plenty of space and dont get restricted.


VG

Great point about taking a bit longer to root when root bound at transplant. She was ready, that was obvious. And I’ve seen some delay before, but that pic was at the ten day mark and it usually doesn’t take that long to rebound, even when bound, so I got a bit concerned.

I have been intrigued by beds ever since I read years ago about Soma’s raised bed construction. Always seemed like a great idea to me, I just question the re-amending part, whether I could pull it off successfully.

Turning green again:

Group, day 7:

Getting nutty:

As mentioned earlier, one of the two runts caught my eye early on. She is now at an even height with #4, the most vigorous of the girls, and the one talked about above that is on the rebound. Runt has been from the beginning considerably darker leaved than the others, including all the boys. And the two cuts I took from her, the first to root.

Runt, day 7:

I measured runoff at 6.3-6.4 with 6.6 water going in. Tap reads 7.1-7.2 so looks as though some unadjusted waterings are called for, as well as monitoring of runoff.

So sounds fair to say that #4 is a D leaner considering the variegation...

 

[VerdantGreen]

They really are looking good now, and great that those leaves have greened up! 10 days should be long enough for roots to sort themselves out you are right, although i tend to look more to how the new leaves/growth is looking to evaluate rather than leaves that have already suffered.
Not sure about the Chem 4 as not had that cut yet, but certainly the Chem D is a lighter green colour overall than most plants, so the darker one could point to being a bit further removed from the D and maybe 4 dominant?.


The beds, re-amending is not an exact science and i tend to be happier when i know whats in there, (i like the exactness of mixing new each time) but it seems that the bigger soil volume/plant size ratio is, the less crucial/more forgiving the amending tends to be. I'm not one of those growers that thinks organic soil keeps on getting better forever - i tend to re-amend and mix it up with some new mix every few grows otherwise it loses structure imo, but yes it is more forgiving than pots for sure.

 

[Buddah Watcha]

Beautiful broda, they look happy as fuck! Can't wait for the updates!

 

[Rab.C]

shmavis great looking plants the runt looks great really healthy shiny leaves

 

[VerdantGreen]

I'm really impressed by the way shmavis got those fading leaves to green up again!


i tend to 'give up' on leaves when they have faded like that and just hope that the new growth is happy.


VG

 

[Shmavis]

They really are looking good now, and great that those leaves have greened up! 10 days should be long enough for roots to sort themselves out you are right, although i tend to look more to how the new leaves/growth is looking to evaluate rather than leaves that have already suffered.
Not sure about the Chem 4 as not had that cut yet, but certainly the Chem D is a lighter green colour overall than most plants, so the darker one could point to being a bit further removed from the D and maybe 4 dominant?.


The beds, re-amending is not an exact science and i tend to be happier when i know whats in there, (i like the exactness of mixing new each time) but it seems that the bigger soil volume/plant size ratio is, the less crucial/more forgiving the amending tends to be. I'm not one of those growers that thinks organic soil keeps on getting better forever - i tend to re-amend and mix it up with some new mix every few grows otherwise it loses structure imo, but yes it is more forgiving than pots for sure.

I finished the Chem ’91 thread and, as you already said, it sounds like the Chem family is known for being calmag hogs, with maybe mag in particular... ? Don’t recall any mention of 4 having darker leaves than D, but that ’91 has them as a distinguishing trait, making me wonder if 4 does have them as a general rule, if it’s more closely related to ’91 than D is. Obviously a lot of uncertainty surrounding such relations though.

So do you only grow clones in your bed? Or do you sex plants (when growing reg seeds) in pots and then only put girls into the bed? Or directly into the bed and then just cull males? I think next fall I would like to try a SCROG with clones and do so in a bed instead of pots. I really like the idea of getting multiple grows from one batch of soil.

Beautiful broda, they look happy as fuck! Can't wait for the updates!

shmavis great looking plants the runt looks great really healthy shiny leaves

Thanks guys for the kind words! That old sayin’ “happy wife, happy life” apples here too, “happy girls, happy grower.” Usually my lighting schedule allows little time to spend with my girls through the week and I am limited, for the most part, to free time on the weekends. In the past, when using HID, I would spend a lot of time on them through veg and then more or less considered flowering as autopilot so it wasn’t necessary to spend a lot of time with them at flower. I am finding I can’t, just yet, do that with LED. I changed it up for these girls, going with a light schedule that allows me time through the week to care for them. A schedule I will use from here on out.

I'm really impressed by the way shmavis got those fading leaves to green up again!


i tend to 'give up' on leaves when they have faded like that and just hope that the new growth is happy.


VG

Same here VG. But usually fading leaves that are telling me it’s time to transplant are the oldest leaves and thereby lower on the plant. And they’re usually trimmed away at transplant anyway. This was higher on the plant and just struck me as odd that its closest neighbor didn’t look the same.

 

[Shmavis]

Day 14:

Day 14:

These four girls have filled the tent to the point of blocking light to the one other girl in there... She was right in the center and getting no light so I had to set her on a milk crate to get her above the canopy of C4DD, lol. Runt is now the tallest and in the back right corner.

They were watered yesterday with 2 tbsp Big Bloom, 5ml Sweet, and one drop of SuperThrive with pH adjusted up to 7.5 and runoff measured 7.2-7.3. Will keep an eye on them but going a bit higher didn't seem to bother them.

Great weekend to all!

 

[Rab.C]

plants are looking excellent

 

[VerdantGreen]

great, looks like they have stopped stretching and 'topped out' now.


How much stretch would you say there was from switching to flower?


As i recall mine stretched quite a bit but they were smaller plants growing more in a sog style and quite packed in.


As for growing in beds, it is great for monocropping clones or growing well-behaved plants, but you can't adjust the height of each individual plant to equalize the canopy like you can with pots (thats why i used to do modular scrog), so yes i tend to grow plants from seed in pots, but that aside the bed is great and very forgiving in that plants don't get rootbound which removes a huge amount of the deficiency problems you see in pots, especially pushing the envelope with big plants in small pots.
Also i can give the bed a good water and it will last for a week without any attention.

 

[Shmavis]

I should've measured height at flip, but didn't. I do believe all except Runt are done stretching. She was even with #4, back left corner, just a couple days ago. But easily about five inches taller now. Hopefully she's now done too. I would say the other three stretched about half as much again. And Runt a little more than that. In the first group pic the frontmost two are my favorites in terms of stature and structure. As much as Runt has my eye, she's too rangy for the tent. Now, in a room with nine foot ceilings, she'd likely be my favorite. But for the most part the amount of stretch worked out great and I am really happy with where they ended up for distance from the light. Runt is only twelve inches whereas the front two are twenty-one.

These four plants fill the tent, wall to wall. I am debating on how much lower growth to trim away, or if I should at all. The side branching is really nice in that it does come up into the canopy so that the tops of each are getting decent light, but those branches are also rather flimsy. Not sure if I want to trim some away and stake the remaining ones or maybe get a net to work over them for support. I wouldn't be able to remove them to water and look over, as I like to do, but the tent does have side access panels so I don't think it would be too difficult to water the back two. Thoughts? And speaking of watering, the back two are hogging it up, just watered Friday I find them this morning ready for another.

Thanks a lot for the bed info. Now that I have an extra tent for flowering I don't see any reason not to give it a try with some clones come fall - unless of course I can't resist popping a bunch of seeds again, lol.

 

[Shmavis]

Collection day:

Collection day:

It would’ve been nice to have flowered all the males to select from, but space didn’t allow for it. I am surprised at how sparse the stamen and how much the plant stretched, but both could be related to being flowered under an old veg specific LED and being held in a 1g container for so long - or maybe not.

Anyway, yesterday I collected some pollen. I don’t like having multiple males, especially in the same tent. And I had no intentions of saving any other males to collect from. However a plant that I thought was a girl turned out to be a male. Since I had already up potted it I couldn’t justify just pitching it and I was super excited about its structure when I thought it was a girl, so I flowered it too and collected pollen. I was as careful as possible to not cross contaminate the pollen and think I was successful, but of course cannot be certain.

The roommate:

About a week out now from dusting some lowers, in the meantime I will work on cleaning the pollen and having it ready. Back this weekend with an update on the girls...

 

[VerdantGreen]

Thanks shmavis, sounds like they were reasonably well-behaved during stretch. Tough call on the lowers. I agree that it's always sensible to keep a close eye on any new plants grown from seed as there is always a chance of some intersex - and Chem lines are no doifferent, but if you feel you can get enough access then it sounds like the lowers will develop into nice buds.
The room-mate male looks nice in stucture and, as you say, quite different from your chosen specimen. Good for some diversity!


VG

 

[theherbalizor]

Hello fella! How’s life?

Blimey.. is that male still rocking on? Great work dude.

 

[VerdantGreen]

herb! long time! - hope life is treating you well.


The male himself is long gone but his progeny live on. I am limbering up to do an inbreeding round on the C4DD.


Great to hear from you, we should have a catch-up sometime.


VG

 

[sticking]

My scrog net sucked so i removed it. The ladies look a lot better under the hps then under the COBs, probably due to the extra heat. The white crap on the leaves is sponosad, had a minor thrip infestation but theyre gone now. Cant recommend Spinosad enough, every single pest gone within hours.

Is this the Chem D leaf mutation ive heard about?

 

[Shmavis]

My scrog net sucked so i removed it. The ladies look a lot better under the hps then under the COBs, probably due to the extra heat. The white crap on the leaves is sponosad, had a minor thrip infestation but theyre gone now. Cant recommend Spinosad enough, every single pest gone within hours.
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=79011&pictureid=1921299&thumb=1]View Image[/URL] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=79011&pictureid=1921298&thumb=1]View Image[/URL]
Is this the Chem D leaf mutation ive heard about?
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=79011&pictureid=1921301&thumb=1]View Image[/URL] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=79011&pictureid=1921300&thumb=1]View Image[/URL]

Looking great, sticking! I learned the hard way about LED not providing enough heat, and needing to run temps hotter under LED. I am running between 83-86 F and with high humidity. Glad to hear it's going better this time around for you. Look forward to your updates!

 

[Shmavis]

Day 21:

Day 21:

Had planned to remove each girl for profile pics today but something’s come up. Hopefully tomorrow. Will be cleaning out beneath the canopy soon - if not tomorrow early in the week. Still coming along nicely. #3 is first to show a good starting frost. Very happy to find the branching getting sturdier. Seeing some more variegation on #4 - even with added garden gypsum and Sweet. But otherwise she's looking good.

Group, day 21:

#3 frost:

 

[Shmavis]

Too short on time to get the profile pics I wanted to get, I snapped a pic of the top of each...

#1 (Runt), day 21:

#2, day 21:

#3, day 21:

#4, day 21:

Great weekend to all!