By far and without a doubt, the least expensive conventional, synthetic fertilizers

[Azeotrope]

Easy to use is correct. I am not even bothering to check EC or PPM. My meter is old and I would need a new one. I am not weighing the nutes as I probably should. PH has been hanging around 5.8. That meter still functions and is correct.LOL I have the scale to weigh my nutes accurately if I wanted but, just haven't........ I haven't burnt any up yet and they are not starving either.

 

[YosemiteSam]

tester...Sotts hydro special and CaNO3

the CaNO3 provides at 2.41 grams per gallon 100 ppm N and 116 ppm Ca. There is some small amount of ammonical N in there but I do not remember how much.

5-12-26 GA
N - 5%
P2O5 - 12
K2O - 26
S - 8.21
B - 0.05%
Cu - 0.015
Fe - 0.3
Mn - 0.05
Mo - 0.01
Zn - 0.015

Derived from: Potassium phosphate, potassium nitrate, magnesium sulfate, boric acid, iron edta, manganese edta, zinc edta, copper edta, ammonium molybdate

At 3.64 grams per gallon they claim:

N - 50 ppm
P - 52
K - 215
Mg - 63
SO4 - 246 (or S 82 if you prefer)
Fe - 3
Mn - 0.5
Zn - 0.15
Cu - 0.15
B - 0.5
Mo - 0.1

So when you combine the CaNO3 and the 5-12-26 you get 150 ppm N and 116 Ca.

 

[tester]

Did you forgot to list Mg on the GA?

"At 3.64 grams"
This should be 3.78 grams. Their mistake or yours?

 

[YosemiteSam]

ummmmm...yes i did and mine...they actually talk about ounces per 1000 gallons. paying attention for more than a minute at a time is a weakness of mine.

I will look up the Mg GA for you.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Mg 6.32%

The actual directions say dissolve 130 ounces of 5-12-26 in 1000 gallons. Then dissolve 86 ounces of CaNO3 in 1000 gallons.

 

[overmyhead]

Any thoughts on this one? No Mg listed - find it hard to believe but i've got no problem asdding epsom salts. Looks good for a bloom nute no?

http://www.lillymiller.com/labels/LillyMiller/04601129.pdf

 

[woolybear]

Hi all, I'm on week 8 of my grow using jacks + calc nitrate. Here's a pic, link is in my sig.

[/IMG]

 

[Azeotrope]

Nice grow wooly! Checked out your link. Nice job with the Jack's and well....... everything in general.

 

[woolybear]

I'm wondering what ppm ratio they run their jack's combo at? I was topping out at around 1200ppm, am thinking I can dial it down a bit in the future. A couple of the plants definitely liked the 1200 I think.

 

[*mistress*]

@ *mistress* (or others)

How important is feeding the cal-nit separate from the 5-11-26? If i need x amount of water per feeding, do i feed .5x of the 5-11-26, then .5x of the cal-nit (with the proper amount of each of course)?

fully dissolving the chems is important. cal can precipitate even if it is not seen by human eye. some of the cal nit formulation may have some form of slow-release coating, to maybe let the other elements dissolve before the reactive cal dissolves.

some other dry fertilizers that include +/- 5% cal w/ p, k, + micros, may also have a slow release coating. this is maybe how they can be in same dry mix & dissolve in same tank.

if mixed together, maybe mix cal first. wait, then mix in dye-colored pks+micros. it is easier to spot precipitation in clear water than murky water. cal - pks+micros - cal is a regime that jrp in some brochures, recommended to small hydroponic gardeners. mixing them (cal nit & pks+micros) in the same container seems ok if adequate tyme to let the 1st placed into the tank passes.

lowering ph to 5.0-5.5 seems to help overall solubility in soilless mixes, as the ph generally rises in the media following nitrate application. this may affect solubility of certain compounds held on the collidial surfaces of the media.

some mix & feed from same tank. letting cal dissolve in separate tank from pks+micros does not seem that much more garden work, to make sure all of it becomes soluble, w/out any reactions from other compounds.

both methods work; mixing in same tank after each dissolves, or mixing and feeding separately. maybe tried both in imagination. the response from feeding cal-nit @ low 5 ph seem best and easier. no more mixing or waiting for each to dissolve. there is only 1 compound in 1 tank.

tank 1 cal-nit. tank 2 p,k,s,mg+micros, mpk (or gh k00l bl00m), k-sulf, k-si. pour-watering. 1st tank 1, 2nd tank 2. or, alternate days. day 1 cal-nit, day 2 pksmg+.



2cents

 

[megayields]

Hi all, I'm on week 8 of my grow using jacks + calc nitrate. Here's a pic, link is in my sig.

[/IMG]

Frosty and nice!

 

[mrcreosote]

All good info here folks...Thanks. I'm planning on a 3 tub dwc holding approx. 10 gallons each in a 2'x4' closet with perpetual grow of 3 cycles. The Jacks/cal would be perfect as a start to finish one size (for now) fits all solution because the closest grow shop is over an hours drive and paying to ship water is just plain dumb (not to mention paying huge money for cute cartoons on bottles). My question is what ratio/grams to quart / gal to water do you mix dry Potassium silicate for ph up? Citric acid the same for ph down? Anything better?
I'd rather have these in quarts premixed in water to balance the reservoirs out if needed.

While I'm at it...Any ideas on media? I'd rather use Higromite (diamotacious nuggets) instead of hydrotron because it repels bugs and is reusable but it costs more to ship than for the stuff itself. A lot of people like coco but I'm a bit leery of using it around here because it's so damn buggy. No matter how much I spray outside I get ants and stuff in the house and I hear that bugs love coco.
I thought of using diatomacious earth on the hydroton to repel bugs but it would probably play hell with the ph if it got in the reservoir.
This looks good if I can find it locally:

http://www.growstone.com/horticulture/

Great idea. Recycled glass instead of strip-mining and almost as cheap as dusty bags of clay. I may have to give those guys in brown some money if I don't want clayballs.
It's tough being cheap. I hate paying almost twice for shipping than what the stuff costs if you could buy from a local store.

Sorry to bother you guys with noob questions but I'd sure like my first indoor grow to look like those nice juicy pics I'm seeing that you folks are getting with simple, easy and cheap nutes.

Hell, at the price of 10 lbs. of Jacks/cal I'll have enough money to get a headstone and may have some ferts left over for some flowers on my grave.

Win-win gardening!

 

[BasementBreeder]

mrcreosote,

Pro-Tekt by Dyna Grow is 24.9% potassium silicate according to the msds. It raises my pH quite handily. I'm sure you could make it more concentrated if desired, but it should work as a starting point.

Citric acid works excellent as pH down. I just carefully add it to my nute res until I'm at the desired pH level. Wiki says the solubility at 20 C is 730g/L, so you could make your pH down solution as strong as you need. Not sure how strong I would actually make the pH down solution though.

 

[mg75]

if you worry about silicate raising your PH too much, add it first to your water before the other nutrients.

 

[mrcreosote]

Thanks BB,
I was looking at Dyna Grow for ferts until I read this and the Maxibloom thread as a lot of folks seem to have really good things to say about it and my reading seems to confirm that silica is necessary for strong stems and natural critter defense as well as general health and productivity. I'm stuck with lousy hydro stores who pump overpriced AN stuff and don't carry dyna grow and local ag stores are 25#-50# farm quantities which is a bit much for a closet grow.

I guess I'll have to get over paying to ship water to get some Pro-tekt or track down a source of pot-silicate.
Glad to hear that citric acid works good as I can get that easily and locally. Others have said that sulfuric acid is much more stable than citric acid but I don't know how true that may be when many use citric without problems. I suppose that would depend on the levels of calcium/ mag in my tap water.
Obviously chemistry isn't my long suit but you can't argue with the pictures and the testimony that Jack's produces fine buds for hundreds less than overpriced cocktails of 12 different bottles.
As a firm believer in the Murphy Law concept, I"m sure I'll find someway to screw things up but having to chase ph with multiple bottles of whatever doesn't have to be part of the problem. My idea is trying to eliminate a hour+ drive to buy stuff that wouldn't be the best to use if I can buy dry ingredients online and make up the same or better.

That's why I'm hanging out with you smart kids who have already done your homework.

Big hat tip to Carl & Co. for posting this thread for us cheapo junkies who have that perverse addiction to squeezing nickles just because we can. I'm not sure if it really make us smarter than the average bear, but it sure feels like it. Just saying no to slick marketing and hype is a satisfaction in itself.
Thanks to you folks I can be sure I'm being penny wise and not pound foolish.

 

[YosemiteSam]

You can get Ag Sil potassium silicate from http://customhydronutrients.com/zen...ij8cpn7ljhjc1qa6e0&keyword=potassium+silicate

It is a powder that cost like 12 bucks a pound. 0.7 grams per gallon gives you 98 ppm. Slightly cheaper than Pro-Tekt or any of the normal hydro store silicas.

If you have a gallon jug I would mix it alone and let it sit a week with frequent shaking to make sure it all completely dissolves.

 

[orange juice]

I'm using 3.6g/gal of jacks, 2.4g/gall calnit, 0.5ml/gal potassium silicate, 0.6g/gal epsom salt, R/O water in straight coco.

I'm having constant rooting problems now, and I really can't figure it out, it's driving me insane.

The plants are the most healthy thing you've ever seen while in veg. Then I move them from their 16oz dixie cups into 1 gal pots and 1k hps light and start 12/12, I've been doing this the same way ever since I've been growing (with all different kinds of nutes) and never had this problem until now.

About 3 weeks into flower the plants will start to look really unhealthy with different kinds of deficiencies, mostly looks like mag, cal, nitrogen, or iron, not all the plants look like they're deficient in the same thing though. Every time I uproot one of them I find the roots grew out sideways a lil bit but they never grow downward even though the roots looked extremely healthy while leaving the dixie cups (tons of white hairs and all.)

I'm not a new grower, just new to jacks/calnit. I'm pretty sure over watering, under watering, bugs, temp, humidity, pH, lockout, offgassing and all those noobie mistakes are not the issue as I've had many many successful crops doing everything the same minus the nutes (same room with same equipment as well).

I'm completely at a loss on what to do here and about to lose more babies 3 weeks into flower as they yet again look to not be taking root effectively in the 1 gallon pots. I've looked for root aphids very close and used imid to treat the plants just in case, this is stuff I've done in the past with 0 issue as well so I don't think that's it . I also use bti to keep fungus gnats away but again I've always used that.

Doing straight coco, drain to waste, I make sure there's no stagnant water or anything like that in the pots. So depressed over this shit... I'm close to running out of meds and not a solution in sight...

 

[YosemiteSam]

orange juice...if you are using the Jack's Hydro special at those levels...as I recall...you are getting 63 ppm Mg from the formula. Again, from memory, I think epsom salt adds 25 ppm per gram per gallon...so your epsom is adding another 15 ppm Mg for a total of 78 ppm Mg.

Again, from memory, 2.4 grams of CaNO3 provides 116 ppm Ca.

My opinion, you have your Ca/Mg ratio out of whack. I think it should be at least 2:1 if not higher. I have seen it suggested to be as high as 5:1. Your ratio is like 1.5:1.

I suspect you are locking out Ca which is leading to all of the symptoms you are describing.

I would suggest you drop the extra Mg (epsom salt). I would also be careful with any Si products...they are generally K2SiO3...so you are adding a little Si and a boatload of K. K will also compete with Ca and might be exacerbating any lock out. I would also eliminate the silica product for now...then when things straighten back out maybe slowly introduce it again and watch what happens.

Whatever you decide good luck to you.

 

[mrcreosote]

Thanks Sam,

Handy site that has the Jacks/& Yara cal/nite too. Would I hold to that same 1/.66 ratio fert to cal/nit?
I really have to learn how to use the Canna-Stat nute calculator. I look at the numbers and my face must look like my dog's when he sees a laser pointer...WTF ????.

Does anyone have a basic nute chemistry link that explains percentages and ratios that is geared to the numerically challenged?

 

[YosemiteSam]

mrcreosote...what I do is keep a list of the common ingredients and the ppms they contribute at 1 gram per gallon. Then you can just sit down with a pencil and paper and play around til you find the mix you want.

The YaraLiva can be used at exactly the same amount as Peter's CaNO3. There is a minor difference in the amount of ammonical nitrogen between the two but not enough to worry about.

I like the YaraLiva...no dye added and obviously less filler.

As far as ratios...well there is mucho debate on those and no solid research given the nature of this plant. You can get a lot of different opinions on that one.