By far and without a doubt, the least expensive conventional, synthetic fertilizers

[woolybear]

woolybear...you do not need to add anything to the hydro special/CaNO3. It is complete as is. Check the pics I posted in this thread...no bloom boosters.

To be honest I like to foliar feed with brix mix and calcium 25 in veg. But those are the only additives I use and I use them because both produce noticable increases in brix (% sucrose) levels as measured by a refractometer. But it certainly isn't needed to produce most excellent weed.

Sweet! brix mix is new to me, maybe if i feel like adding shit I can try molasses later. Thanks for saving me $$$$!

After reading thru the thread again, I may try modifying my mix. I have been mixing 1:1 Jacks/Calnit and feeding at 1500 ppm. Will try 1/.66 5/12/26-CaN ratio, did notice some off coloring on some leaves I was thinking was MG def.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I feel the 1/1 ratio has too much N. Your plants will get greener but they will not be as healthy. What happens is that too much NO3 leads to the plant forming free amino acids instead of complete proteins. In fact, I feel, it is better to be slightly low on N as that insures complete proteins provided you are not shorting the plant on other elements. Nitrate sap testers will let you know.

Go to the 1/.66 ratio and see if your plants growth rate doesn't improve.

 

[Space Case]

Yo Sam, nice to see ya over here. I have been following this info from GC, mainly CropReport, Delta, and Healer's threads. Good to see this info over here!

 

[BasementBreeder]

@ *mistress* (or others)

How important is feeding the cal-nit separate from the 5-11-26? If i need x amount of water per feeding, do i feed .5x of the 5-11-26, then .5x of the cal-nit (with the proper amount of each of course)?

 

[YosemiteSam]

space case...i have a journal over there, yo's 15 kw medical grow

basement...you can combine them in the same res and feed them together. They come separately because they do not work well in concentrated solns, precipitation will occur...but not at the concentrations we use.

what you do is add your water, then add your 5-11-26 and mix it completely in and finally, add your CaNO3. Then check your pH and adjust...but, next time if you have to use pH down add it to the water before you add the hydro special...if you have to use pH up add it last.

 

[Azeotrope]

YosemiteSam - If you don't mind.... What medium are your girls in? When not playing with organics, I like straight coco run DTW. It seems this mix would be just fine for coco, but I thought I'd ask your thoughts on that.

Thanks!

 

[Mr.Tortoise]

I use 5-11-27 with calcium nitrate, epsom salt and potassium phosphate for years. Did side by side with pureblends line, AN, Canna, and FloraNova with all there bells and whistles over the years none were any better. I just ran it at 800ppm. I did the calculations once it cost me like 0.06 cents I think per 10L where as FloraNova was the second cheapest at like .60 cents. Even for a small grow that adds up. It also allows a lot of control. The N to K ratio really is good at controlling hight. Want shorter plant add more K or less N. I have read a lot of studies that show high N is a big factor in pest control. High N plants are more attractive to bugs. I think you can tell that by just looking at them all that very weak fast grow just makes for weak soft plants.

I have run this in peat, coco, hydroton and straight water culture, always works great. I am really suprised that more people don't use it. I have tried to get other people to use it but no one does unless I mix a stock solution for them, then they love it. I can see why a lot of people have got into the nutrient business from this experience. Just go by something at 1 dollar through it in water and sell it for 10.

 

[overmyhead]

On the osmocote note, I took a few clones straight from 9oz cups and put them straight into 12/12 in 1 gal of promix in fabric nursery pots) and 1 tbs of osmocote plus (6 month) and 2.5 weeks later they look super pretty just getting tap water and pretty much staying wet I might hit them with a little flouro nova bloom or pure blend bloom (gotta use all that stuff up so I can be stricktly cheap nutes, for some reason that makes it more fun) just to supplement here and there but no ph ing just letting em rip to see how easy it can be. Of course, my plants always look great until like week 5 and then it all goes to hell!

An update on this: First off, I was wrong, there was more like 2 gal in there and they finished off at just about 2z apiece with nothing but the osmocote plus, occasional molasses and foliar purple max (which is very cheap if you foliar feed it.) Almost all the leaves died off but the flavor is a little harsh pre cure but it's covered with resin. Love Purple Maxx!

What happened to carl?

 

[YosemiteSam]

YosemiteSam - If you don't mind.... What medium are your girls in? When not playing with organics, I like straight coco run DTW. It seems this mix would be just fine for coco, but I thought I'd ask your thoughts on that.

Thanks!

straight coco dtw...sunshine just coir, no treatment necessary other than taking a sample of each bag and checking for excess Na before using. i am in 20 gal smart pots...i believe they will support 3 pound plants given enough light.

 

[Azeotrope]

Brilliant! Thanks for all of the great info in this and many other threads on IC.

I have had some rediculas results on coco - dtw in the past. Think I'll be going back. While I like the whole organic experience/process overall, I had been avoiding the straight coco largely due to a lack of supplies in my current area of residence.

I have sourced good cheap coco and your guidance with the Jack's has provided that last piece of the puzzle. I did not wish to order on-line for bottled nutes. The Jack's is too easy and cheap to pass up.

Thanks again and many regards.

 

[YosemiteSam]

you are welcome.

for what it is worth i don't think organics can be beat for taste. if i were growing just for myself that is what i would be doing. but growth rates with coco and a decent refined salt mix are so good i cannot ignore it.

you might can beat that growth with rdwc but in my opinion the risk of losing a crop is not worth it.

anyways, that is why i am doing what i am doing.

 

[Azeotrope]

http://vertigro.com/products/fertilizers.php

There is a fairly good buy on the 5-10-25 & Calcium Nitrate right now. 4lbs of each for $39.95 (for all 8lbs) shipped anywhere in the continental US.

Just thought I'd throw it out there..... I have some Jack's arriving soon or I'd be ordering. Maybe I will anyway?

 

[BillFarthing]

Are the vertigro nutes buffered like Jack's hydro line is?

Regardless, both of those lines are right on the money.

 

[Azeotrope]

Yep. They claim that they will self buffer to 5.5 - 6.0

Totally on the money for sure.

 

[Azeotrope]

Just a little feedback on Jack's Pro Hydro. I have been feeding some seedlings with 1/4tsp per gallon of the 5-12-26 and the Calcium Nitrate. They are in straight coco and were about 3days after breaking the surface when they got their first dose. I know some folks wait longer before feeding, but I have learned over the years that straight coco can be dodgy with seedlings. So I always hit them lightly real early.

Ok. I moved a few months ago and can not find my scale or I would weigh it. My Hanna EC/PPM/PH meter is getting very old so I am running by observation for now. Let me just say after 4 days roots are popping through the coco fibre pots and the babes are looking excellent.

So, cost does not always indicate quality. This is a strain/cross I made years ago and know very well. I have a lot of coco experience (years) with mostly canna nutes and some GH runs. I will update, but so far Jack's gets a 2 thumbs up. With seedlings, you know pretty quickly if you mess up.

 

[Azeotrope]

So, here are some pics of the babies mentioned above. These are JhonnyBlaze X Sweet Blue. They are receiving 1/2tsp Cal-Nit and 3/8tsp of the 5-12-26 for now. Using tap water. Every 3rd watering they get 1ml/gal of potassium silicate added. Temps are between 55F and 60F. 24/0 lighting (i don't like 24/0 I'm just lazy these days). 150w Uni-Form Venture PSMH on an ARO e-ballast. Cheap "BeatsPeat" coco as a medium.

The two larger girls are the oldest at just about 1month from seed. The other two were just transplanted in to the #2 smart pots yesterday and are 3wks old. I had several other 1 month old girls that have been donated to a family member that was in need of fresh stock.









Just figured I'd show folks that low price isn't a negative and that I should list all of the other variables as nutes aren't the only factor in plant health.

Good growing to all of you and thanks for everything you all contribute here!

 

[tester]

Looks good

Any source of Mg?

 

[Azeotrope]

Thanks,

The Jack's is pretty heavy on Mg @ like 6% at their recommended rates. I suspect that my tap water has some as well. When I run out of the Jack's, I will switch to the VertiGrow 5-10-25 (I have 4lbs now) and that has about half of the Mg in it. I do keep Epsom Salts around should I feel the need........

P.S. - This cross is one I made a few years back and have found to be picky/sensative on nutes as it has a good amount of Blueberrry in it and some NevHaze in the mix. So, I am pleased to see that in general none of them are freaking. There is one with some slight color variation in the leaves, but to keep it simple, they all will get what satisfies the majority the best.

 

[tester]

Do you have the exact nutrient content of Jack's Hydro?
I couldn't find it online.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Tester...at full recommended strength Mg in the Jacks is 60 ppm.

I don't have the full list in front of me right now but I will get it and post the GA, derived from and elemental ppms.

It really is an excellent formula and very easy to use.