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Butane honey oil for dummies

WaterFarmFan

WaterFarmFan

Active member
Veteran
wvguerrilla said:
Whats the best vac chamber for the money anyone? Thanks in advance i'm new to the whole bho thing.
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You definitely want a stainless steel chamber. Also, bigger is not necessarily better, as you are only heating the bottom of the chamber. Tall walls of a big chamber will reduce effectiveness of heating element. You probably want 3 gallon or less instead of 5 gallon.

The difference between a vacuum chamber and vacuum oven is that in an oven, heat is coming from all sides. In a chamber, the bottom of the bho patty will be hotter and then the top, so a tough film can form on the top that makes it more difficult to fully purge. I found you have to raise temps higher than you want to "pop' the trapped bubbles.

If you are serious about making solvents, whether it is butane or ethanol, a vacuum oven is one of the most essential tools that you can have. I bought a chamber and PID heating mat that are currently sitting in a box. But if you only want to make a small amount for personal use and really keep your costs, a heated chamber will absolutely serve your needs. A vacuum oven just makes things easier to control.

As sky pointed out, BVV is probably better than most of the generic stuff on ebay. The cheaper chambers can "creak" a little under strong vacuum, as the thinner stainless steel gets pulled in slightly. Not the most settling thing to hear...
 
SkyHighLer

SkyHighLer

Got me a stone bad Mana
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WaterFarmFan said:
You definitely want a stainless steel chamber. I have an aluminum stock pot vacuum chamber, the aluminum smoothly distributes the heat better than stainless steel. Also, bigger is not necessarily better, as you are only heating the bottom of the chamber. Tall walls of a big chamber will reduce effectiveness of heating element. You probably want 3 gallon or less instead of 5 gallon. I have a five gallon, no problem achieving or holding temperature, and the height provides room to spare when pulling the initial muffin.

The difference between a vacuum chamber and vacuum oven is that in an oven, heat is coming from all sides. There are individually heated shelf vacuum ovens. In a chamber, the bottom of the bho patty will be hotter and then the top, so a tough film can form on the top that makes it more difficult to fully purge. I found you have to raise temps higher than you want to "pop' the trapped bubbles. A thin film of oil under vacuum should have little difference in temperature between top and bottom whether heated by radiant energy from wall heaters, or direct contact with a heated shelf (or the bottom of a stock pot.) If you apply enough heat to keep the oil just barely liquid (~115F,) it will bubble nicely under vacuum, when the bubbling slows to a crawl, it's done, imo.

If you are serious about making solvents, whether it is butane or ethanol, a vacuum oven is one of the most essential tools that you can have. Purging ethanol in a radiant wall heated vacuum chamber may be preferable to individually heated shelves. I bought a chamber and PID heating mat that are currently sitting in a box. But if you only want to make a small amount for personal use and really keep your costs, a heated chamber will absolutely serve your needs. A vacuum oven just makes things easier to control.

As sky pointed out, BVV is probably better than most of the generic stuff on ebay. I'll take this opportunity to publicly remind BVV they need to get their sponsor banner back up. The cheaper chambers can "creak" a little under strong vacuum, as the thinner stainless steel gets pulled in slightly. Not the most settling thing to hear...
Click to expand...

Tip, the dial gauge on your chamber will be off by 1" of Hg for every thousand feet you are above sea level, if your dial gauge reads -28.0" Hg, and you're at 2,000' of elevation, your chamber is actually at a 'full vac' of -29.9" Hg.
 
WaterFarmFan

WaterFarmFan

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Veteran
WaterFarmFan

WaterFarmFan

Active member
Veteran
SkyHighLer said:
Tip, the dial gauge on your chamber will be off by 1" of Hg for every thousand feet you are above sea level, if your dial gauge reads -28.0" Hg, and you're at 2,000' of elevation, your chamber is actually at a 'full vac' of -29.9" Hg.
Click to expand...

Good info Sky! It seems butane is a bit easier to purge than alcohol. Have you noticed any integrity issues on your Aluminum chamber? I wonder if the walls are thicker than the stainless chambers?
 
SkyHighLer

SkyHighLer

Got me a stone bad Mana
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WaterFarmFan said:
Good info Sky! It seems butane is a bit easier to purge than alcohol. Have you noticed any integrity issues on your Aluminum chamber? I wonder if the walls are thicker than the stainless chambers?
Click to expand...

Nearly every imploded stock pot chamber I've heard of was DIY with stainless steel walls that were too thin. I've had no problems or leaks with my aluminum chamber with riveted on handles.

My chamber has a 1/2" thick polycarbonate lid. GW's provided engineering data that if polycarbonate it should be thicker, but thicker is expensive and heavy, and mine has held up for years.

Something to keep in mind when heating a stock pot chamber, the outer bottom surface isn't flat, it's concave, put it on a griddle and only the outer circumference makes contact. The heat mats with PID controller like BVV sells work well and are reasonably priced.
 
abirdintheair

abirdintheair

Buteo Jamaicensis
Veteran
I clearly don't get what its used for, so hopefully you guys can clear the air for me. whats the point of a vac chamber? mainly just to hold at vacuum and help purge the bho? Im assuming theres much more to it though than that. is there a necessity for a smaller grower to need/use one for their bho runs over the usual hot water bath and heating mat? TIA
 
I

Itsgotatail

Member
At the very least, get a vacuum chamber (pot style) with a small vacuum pump and a heating mat. Shouldn't cost you more than $200-250 to get started. Much cheaper than an oven, but you'll be limited to an ounce or two at a time. An oven can hold a pound of more and provides much more precise temperature control which is necessary for consistent textural results.
 
F

flashlight

Member
GW, what are some sure signs of product being decarbed? I've been purging at your recommend temps 110-115*, but I'm at 3180' elevation and am concerned I'm decarbing, due to over vac. I watch for the larger bubbles to stop and when the smaller ones start popping rapidly I close the vac, and let it sit in there for a couple hours. Gauge reads about -26.5Hg, but know it higher. Any suggestions?
 
D

Dirt Bag

Member
flashlight said:
GW, what are some sure signs of product being decarbed? I've been purging at your recommend temps 110-115*, but I'm at 3180' elevation and am concerned I'm decarbing, due to over vac. I watch for the larger bubbles to stop and when the smaller ones start popping rapidly I close the vac, and let it sit in there for a couple hours. Gauge reads about -26.5Hg, but know it higher. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

I know you're not asking me, but I don't understand what problem you're experiencing? Is there something wrong with your results? If so, what?
 
F

flashlight

Member
I'm aiming to get stable, non tacky product. I'm getting varied results with different product, so makes it difficult to pin problem, however last couple runs I am getting a sticky product. Looks good and smells good, but unmanageable. Thinking its moisture issue or decarbing by over vacuuming... Thoughts?
 
D

Dirt Bag

Member
I pull full vac @ 118°F until no reaction, flip, repeat. Often this results in shatter, but if it's still "pull n snap" taffy (like after a day) I raise the temperature to 137°F and reduce the vacuum to -28.5, flip, repeat until no reaction.
This produces what I think resembles apple butter and is extremely easy to handle.
I realize this goes against conventional thinking, but works great for me.
 
SkyHighLer

SkyHighLer

Got me a stone bad Mana
ICMag Donor
Veteran
flashlight said:
GW, what are some sure signs of product being decarbed? I've been purging at your recommend temps 110-115*, but I'm at 3180' elevation and am concerned I'm decarbing, due to over vac. I watch for the larger bubbles to stop and when the smaller ones start popping rapidly I close the vac, and let it sit in there for a couple hours. Gauge reads about -26.5Hg, but know it higher. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

flashlight said:
DB, do you leave pump running continuously as well, so close it after a certain point?
Click to expand...



"the actual level of vacuum inside the oven is identical whether you are at sea level or not."

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=8141378&highlight=vacuum+level#post8141378


In my words,

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=7654817&postcount=5



It is my opinion vacuum does not increase the rate of decarboxylation, it is entirely, or nearly entirely dependent on temperature.



If you keep the pump running at full vacuum (~ -29.9" Hg) you will continue to see the terpenes boiling off on and on, most of the butane purged off immediately when it was bumping (muffining up.)

Therefore, I purge in a thin film at 115F down to 29.5" Hg until the bubbling slows to a crawl.


If you believe butane/propane residuals in your oil is toxic or detectable with unaided senses, I posted my full fact based rebuttal in this thread (starts at post #6 - goes on for several pages,)

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=348869&highlight=taste+butane
 
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