Bush Weed Seeds

[funkyhorse]

Monsieur Troutman
I agree with you about vegging sativas for 13-14 hours
But I am not sure if the 18 hour veg might be the only cause for hermies
This ladyboy(not bushweed strain) was vegged indoors 14-10 and then taken outdoors to flower in wetlands, very humid environment which sativas love

This plant wasnt rootbound either, I am afraid this result is the consequence of not so careful breeding selection or dont give a fuck breeding

Another possibility is: breeders are giving pure sativas an 18-6 veg and 12-12 flowering and the result is hermie genetics?
From this line which is supposed to be a pure sativa I had 2 males: this ladyboy and an indica male which wasnt supposed to appear in a famous and hyped pure sativa line

I am talking about an expensive line of over 5 euro a regular seed

I also think if you take a thai to the arctic or if you take an inuit to the tropics, in such harsh environments for them they would probably become ladyboys if it is needed in order to survive and adapt

 

[@hempy]

Veg times dont cause hermaphrodites

 

[troutman]

Can you maintain a full sat indefinitely at 14hrs?

The longest I've kept Sativa clones for was maybe 1/2 a year at 14 hours. They were Colombian Gold and they didn't flower.
I don't keep clones around for years like some people do.

I also think if you take a thai to the arctic or if you take an inuit to the tropics, in such harsh environments for them they would probably become ladyboys if it is needed in order to survive and adapt

Lots of ladyboys in Thailand and they do all kinds of things to make money. But that's another story.

 

[HAZENACIOUS]

Monsieur Troutman
I agree with you about vegging sativas for 13-14 hours
But I am not sure if the 18 hour veg might be the only cause for hermies
This ladyboy(not bushweed strain) was vegged indoors 14-10 and then taken outdoors to flower in wetlands, very humid environment which sativas love

This plant wasnt rootbound either, I am afraid this result is the consequence of not so careful breeding selection or dont give a fuck breeding

Another possibility is: breeders are giving pure sativas an 18-6 veg and 12-12 flowering and the result is hermie genetics?
From this line which is supposed to be a pure sativa I had 2 males: this ladyboy and an indica male which wasnt supposed to appear in a famous and hyped pure sativa line

I am talking about an expensive line of over 5 euro a regular seed

I also think if you take a thai to the arctic or if you take an inuit to the tropics, in such harsh environments for them they would probably become ladyboys if it is needed in order to survive and adapt


View Image

When breeding, it helps to purge a strain that naturally has hermaphrodites. You do this by stressing the hell out of the plants and finding the ones that won't Hermie under any condition and selecting only those for breeding on the first generation, usually that will do it with landraces or diverse genetics, hermies that resulted from inbreeding can be harder to clean up and may need to be outcrossed. I only have 2 light cycles 24hour and 12 hour. I have cleaned up plenty of Hermie strains using above methods, landraces, it's not complicated, and my lines are very stable.

It is not uncommon to get hermaphrodites when working with landraces.

 

[funkyhorse]

Veg times dont cause hermaphrodites

G'day Hempy
What I have seen is 18-6 and 14-10 veg times for sativas make no significative difference at the growth stage. But with pure indicas or hybrids containing indica at 14-10 they grow much slower than at 18-6


12-12 flowering times for sativas prolong unnecessarily the growth
From pure sativas, I have seen them showing sex at 45-60 days at 12-12 but at 11-13 they show sex at 20-30 days from flipping


So what is the main cause of hermies if veg times dont have influence: genetics, poor breeding or both?

 

[HAZENACIOUS]

Hiya Troutman,

This is new perspective for me. I’m novice with 100% sats. Have always maintained min 15-16hrs for my hybrids.

Can you maintain a full sat indefinitely at 14hrs?

Peace,
F2F

Hi F2F,

Not sure the answer, but I have been growing hazes and landraces on 24 hour veg for 30 years without problem, have maintained clones for as long as a decade without issue, so you may want to take some of this with a grain of salt.
Somebody said they don't know why anybody would use 18 hours it's "unnatural"?

Indoor growing is "unnatural" , so what? People like longer hours because it reduces veg times. I'm not knocking shorter veg hours, but there is nothing wrong with longer veg hours, except for someone who arbitrarily thinks its "unnatural" or whatever...

I would like to see people offering a bit of evidence when they start criticizing time tested methods, especially where light cycle is concerned. People use longer veg times for a reason.

 

[funkyhorse]

When breeding, it helps to purge a strain that naturally has hermaphrodites. You do this by stressing the hell out of the plants and finding the ones that won't Hermie under any condition and selecting only those for breeding on the first generation, usually that will do it with landraces or diverse genetics, hermies that resulted from inbreeding can be harder to clean up and may need to be outcrossed. I only have 2 light cycles 24hour and 12 hour. I have cleaned up plenty of Hermie strains using above methods, landraces, it's not complicated, and my lines are very stable.

It is not uncommon to get hermaphrodites when working with landraces.

Hi there
I am not a breeder, just grow for myself and I started growing recently

I see this method has been applied to clean hermie genetics and I have grown some genetics done with this method


My question is if you are not watering down the line by selecting only the Guanatanamo survivors which have been subdued to severe torturing.

Wouldnt it be better to select and cultivate landraces trying to mimic or replicate the strain local environment in order to avoid hermies and at the same time mantaining or improving the quality?


I mean, would you have the same quality progeny if the father was a happy man/plant living in peace and freedom or if the father was subdued to severe stress or torturing? This is epigenetics


And I dont think the stressed plant would show hermie traits in their natural environment. By culling these plants which were forced to hermie but dont show natural hermie traits as in the picture above, wouldnt you be culling potency as well?


We are talking about tropical plants. The photoperiod in the tropics is up to 14-10. At Santa Marta photperiod is 11.5-12.5

How come it became a norm and tested method to grow landraces sativas at 18-6?

 

[HAZENACIOUS]

Hi there
I am not a breeder, just grow for myself and I started growing recently

I see this method has been applied to clean hermie genetics and I have grown some genetics done with this method


My question is if you are not watering down the line by selecting only the Guanatanamo survivors which have been subdued to severe torturing.

Wouldnt it be better to select and cultivate landraces trying to mimic or replicate the strain local environment in order to avoid hermies and at the same time mantaining or improving the quality?


I mean, would you have the same quality progeny if the father was a happy man/plant living in peace and freedom or if the father was subdued to severe stress or torturing? This is epigenetics


And I dont think the stressed plant would show hermie traits in their natural environment. By culling these plants which were forced to hermie but dont show natural hermie traits as in the picture above, wouldnt you be culling potency as well?

I breed only for my own smoke.
I have very eclectic tastes, I don't have 25 acres and a few decades to test all your fearful speculation. I will say that if you believe all that garbage you will never figure it out, and so you can keep paying lots of money buying Hermie genetics from breeders who don't care.
I've been breeding my own stuff for years, I've never witnessed all the boogeymen you are speculating about, I don't have any hermies, and my weed is the most potent I've smoked.

I offered a simple method that works for me. I am not running a spa for my plants. What I offered is a remedy, a way to correct a strain that is throwing hermies, I didn't say it was perfect, but I've been using it for decades and it works very well.

 

[LiudwigXIX]

I don't know about a homepage but he's selling them here

https://www.realgorillaseeds.com/product-category/seed-boutique/bush-weed-seeds/

OH! Thanks man!

 

[@hempy]

G'day Hempy
What I have seen is 18-6 and 14-10 veg times for sativas make no significative difference at the growth stage. But with pure indicas or hybrids containing indica at 14-10 they grow much slower than at 18-6


12-12 flowering times for sativas prolong unnecessarily the growth
From pure sativas, I have seen them showing sex at 45-60 days at 12-12 but at 11-13 they show sex at 20-30 days from flipping


So what is the main cause of hermies if veg times dont have influence: genetics, poor breeding or both?

I have grown pure sats at 18/6 for veg from the start of indoors never saw a plant hermaphrodite in flower.

If we are talking sativas some sativa lines can express Three sex's at the start of sex you will see male / hermaphrodites/ female.Once you cull the hermaphrodite the male will stay male and female will stay female.

I have seen people in icmag recently use a hermaphrodite to pollinate a female because they found no male in a set sat line big mistake.

If the Hermaphrodites are showing up at sex then its genetic.

I was thinking about bushys seeds herming and i wounder if there has been cross pollination out doors were he grows.

I know a few things from reading he was playing with hermied that were not related to Nevil or Kangas work.

 

[MAHA KALA]

hybrid vigor can mask some traits ,
so they may not appear in the first generation ,
but make an f2 and u will soon see them reveal themselves ,


growing the plants in a much different environment to what they are used too can also coax out some hermies in some varieties ...

absolutely agree. plus they didn't test it indoor at all..

not a long time ago, I saw grow of mns skunkhaze which put out nanners during flowering. so if some ARM CHAIR HAZE expert will state mns gear has none of these intersexual issues, the opposite is right

 

[@hempy]

Yep the arm chair experts should be avoided at all costs as they have no clue and there opinion is often driven by hate or jealousy or both.

Nevil's Grail work was in fact tested indoors and out doors by Nevil himself and here is a picture of one of the plant lines tested indoors.


MMx78Thai

 

[MAHA KALA]

I am talking about Bush Weed seeds as far as no indoor testing, it is my speculation though. some idiotic arm chair experts cant read, because of hate or jealousy same pic again? how could you have more pics when you made 1684 post from November, of course no time for growing when you have to sit at internet. get proper medical care and get rid of your fantasmas that you are breeder and legend LOL I want you help so you dont get butthurt again and start to cry

 

[@hempy]

I am talking about Bush Weed seeds as far as no indoor testing, it is my speculation though. some idiotic arm chair experts cant read, because of hate or jealousy same pic again? how could you have more pics when you made 1684 post from November, of course no time for growing when you have to sit at internet. get proper medical care and get rid of your fantasmas that you are breeder and legend LOL I want you help so you dont get butthurt again and start to cry

All the strains bushweed sells are strains Nevil or Nevil and Kanga breed so not one line bushweed offers is his work.

All of the lines were grown indoors and outdoors you are the arm chair expert.


(Mahakala the Lord of Great Compassion ) Yea right ow .

 

[Makaveli01]

 

[Raho]

I don't use more than 14 hours for vegging Sativas and probably will use 13 hours in my next grow with them.

Why some people use 18 hours is beyond me. It's not natural and may explain some hermies.

Longer "lights on" periods than can occur in nature are a simple effort of growers to maximize production against a calendar.
Outdoors, plants receive significantly more photons in an hour than can be economically reproduced indoors. Heat mitigation and ceiling space are limiting factors for many to even trying (can you imagine 1k HPS lamps mounted in every square foot of ceiling space?)

Because of this, indoor plants will never have the ability to grow and big/fast as outdoor plants, regardless of how well the rest of the environment is dialed in.

Running less light but for more hours accomplishes the same thing as increasing light levels for regular periods. You are increasing the total number of photons absorbed by the plant in a 24 hour period (and thus growth).
This is called the DLI (day light integral):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_light_integral


As far as the factors leading to herming, could 24 hour "lights on" trigger male flower production in a particular plant sensitive to the conditions? SURE, why not. Our plants can be sensitive to many imbalances in the artificial environments we create and maintain in order to please them.
My dog is sensitive to the sound of the doorbell ringing. Drives her nuts. Other dogs I've had ignore/sleep right through it.
Every pheno is different in myriad ways we cannot see with our naked eyes.

Because all cannabis plants have the ability to reverse sex if they feel their ability to produce seed and continue the species is threatened, many instances of unwanted self pollination are clearly the combination of a pheno with elevated sensitivity for specific conditions, and it's reaction to an environment where the grower has knowingly or unknowingly created those conditions.
You cannot entirely breed out this survival function. You can only try to selectively reduce the appearance of the trait by selecting phenos that don't express it as parents. Even then, genetics can easily conspire to hide the trait to see it return in a % of the next gen offspring.

The REAL problem with plants that self pollinate because of this survival function is that growers are often unaware of the problems in their rooms. They can't fix the problems because they don't see them. Light leaks and temperature spikes are probably the 2 biggest causes, but recreating nature indoors is a daunting goal, and most of us fall short somehow.

Eventually the right pheno will be run in your space that will react to your bad condition and voila! "Hermy shit pollen chucker rip off!"

The thing is, when the best pheno out of 100 throws a few balls on shaded lower larf around week 4, then stops . . . should you cull that 1:100 keeper and use that common "avg" pheno that doesn't show the balls as your breeding parent?

Like sports cars and women, the finest examples of both can be temperamental, requiring special care and attention to keep them happy. In the end though, people who demand the best are always willing to pay the price of a little inconvenience.

It's easy to say "I breed out all herms in my selections" but prioritizing the No-Herm requirement above qualitative flower traits like potency and effects, almost ensures that while you might produce 3 pounds per light in 56 days of flower without a single seed, the guy next door with 32 seeds in a pound might get double the price for his packs because he selected for quality smoke instead of no herms.


Nev said "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" about Ortega and I agree in general. It is easier to eliminate potency from a genepool than it is to eliminate a universal survival mechanism of the species.


I usually assume (not always) that people who claim they run their grow as "a torture chamber to identify and cull weakness for my breeding" actually have messed up rooms that they can't figure out how to fix, and are portraying their failure as intention.

 

[MAHA KALA]

All the strains bushweed sells are strains Nevil or Nevil and Kanga breed so not one line bushweed offers is his work.

All of the lines were grown indoors and outdoors you are the arm chair expert.


(Mahakala the Lord of Great Compassion ) Yea right ow .

you arm chair expert, by the way Tom Hill called you like that 10 years ago.. it is not my idea, but you proved several times even in this thread when you saw leaf of laos plant and called it neville´s haze.. that you are Nevil´clown.. so dear arm chair expert, these seeds were not produced by Kanga or Nevil.. simple fact. are you on opiates again?

 

[@hempy]

you arm chair expert, by the way Tom Hill called you like that 10 years ago.. it is not my idea, but you proved several times even in this thread when you saw leaf of laos plant and called it neville´s haze.. that you are Nevil´clown.. so dear arm chair expert, these seeds were not produced by Kanga or Nevil.. simple fact. are you on opiates again?

I dont remember me and Tom having a fall out but most people can disagree and still get along MAHA but you seam to thrive on insults and drama.

The seed lines bushweed is selling were produced by Nevil and Kanga and bushy just hacked them.

How many plants Bushy grow out doors 12 going by him max at a time and some lines he grew hermied you should spend less time insulting people and more time on researching your facts.

If Beanz made these seeds then did they come from seed made by Nevil and Kanga or did bushy make them because i know for a fact he did not get the MM x Ox or the MMx78Thai from Nevil or Kanga so were they come from.

 

[romanoweed]

Makaveli , great Plants in your first Post ,
rarely seen such Orange hairs and complex looking Bud. Complex effects ahoi

 

[Donald Mallard]

I have grown pure sats at 18/6 for veg from the start of indoors never saw a plant hermaphrodite in flower.

If we are talking sativas some sativa lines can express Three sex's at the start of sex you will see male / hermaphrodites/ female.Once you cull the hermaphrodite the male will stay male and female will stay female.

I have seen people in icmag recently use a hermaphrodite to pollinate a female because they found no male in a set sat line big mistake.

If the Hermaphrodites are showing up at sex then its genetic.

I was thinking about bushys seeds herming and i wounder if there has been cross pollination out doors were he grows.

I know a few things from reading he was playing with hermied that were not related to Nevil or Kangas work.

your limited experience proves nothing really hempy ,
some folks grow hundreds and thousands of seeds and dont seem to agree with your experience from barely a handful .



ive heard u say you didnt think any of the sativas were prone to hermie until indica was added ,
though most other folks who have grown a lot of sativas disagree,



i had this debate with you eons ago about thai showing 30 % intersexed plants , you disagreed strongly ,
then when i questioned what you did you said of the ""3"" seeds you grew , 1 was male , 1 was female and 1 was hermi ,
not sure how your maths is , but that is the same as i said , 30%

sometimes i think you dont agree simply because it hasnt come from your mouth .. ...

i really dont think you have enough experience to go making blanket statements on all sativas , because you just havent seen enough to do that ...

Male plants can also be hermies ,

many folks dont grow them out to check and they are quite common , as common as female hermies ..



sativas can show these traits from the beginning of flower , all the way through the cycle , even at the end ..



the hermies in the lines bushy released were simply due to lack of good selection , had the person making them fully tested all plants for these traits it would have definitely lessened the chance of them appearing ... its as simple as that ....

according to what bushy said even your thai showed those traits, but you disregard/discredit anything he says as it doesnt agree with what you say ..