Building an IC69 Heat Exchanger

[HG23]

Ah, I see.

I've heard the pressure relief valves go off on the dewars when I'm at the local air gas place and was wondering if you have that level of noise going on with the chiller venting to atmosphere. It doesn't sound like it.

How are the logistics of the counterflow exchanger working out? Does Joe have to monitor or adjust the flow through the exchanger much during the process? How about clearing the exchanger between floods to prevent a solid plug of solvent forming?

 

[Gray Wolf]

Ah, I see.

I've heard the pressure relief valves go off on the dewars when I'm at the local air gas place and was wondering if you have that level of noise going on with the chiller venting to atmosphere. It doesn't sound like it.

How are the logistics of the counterflow exchanger working out? Does Joe have to monitor or adjust the flow through the exchanger much during the process? How about clearing the exchanger between floods to prevent a solid plug of solvent forming?

Yeah, Dewar PRF's are typically unthrottled high pressure releases.

Joe hasn't refined his process much, nor has he had control issues, but he isn't trying to hold concise temperatures either.

He is venting straight to atmosphere, so that when he stops, the refrigerant leaves the counterflow, so as to not create a butane plug.

The counterflow injection cooler system that I designed using -40C coolant, shuts off the flow of coolant and uses a shot of air or nitrogen to clear the counterflow of coolant.

 

[Sunfire]

Have yall seen the LN2 design that roji had made on his instagram account? It's for prechill injection but looks like it could be used as an after chiller too.

I don't know of any wolf wurx or tags for you on ig gw or I would have tagged you. The design is a modified sleaved spool that sits upright. Looks super sexy and like it would reduce footprint on your carts.

 

[Rickys bong]

Have yall seen the LN2 design that roji had made on his instagram account? It's for prechill injection but looks like it could be used as an after chiller too.

That one is using liquid CO2 actually. I know cuz I built it. We're still doing testing on that piece.

RB

 

[Sunfire]

Ahhhh co2 ok.

I never played with sub zero so I was only paying attention to how sexy it was!

 

[Gray Wolf]

Link?

 

[Sunfire]

@roji_concentrates

You'll see all sorts of fun stuff there.

 

[A6 Grower]

https://instagram.com/roji_concentrates

 

[tommy_greens]

I think the design might be something like what I've attached but I could be way off base. I'll see if i can get old Roji to chime in. Although the design might be proprietary, and I cant blame him much if he would prefer to only share with consulting clients.

 

[Roji]

Yes Ultris/RB's design is similar but with thermalcoupler ports for running the coolant controller. We are using LN2 at this point.

 

[goddangitbobby]

http://www.amazon.com/HomeBrewStuff-Stainless-Steel-Tubing-Coil/dp/B00420V094

Here is a picture inside a self draining tri-core heat exchanger, with one 50 foot coil and two 20' ones. WW wrapped the two 20' coils around the inner strainer from the sea food pot and purchased the 50'.

So you're welding in the sc40 ss valves to the stockpot?
Is there a particular p/n#? (Looking at getting it from paramount)

Can I get the compression fittings that go in the 1/2" tubes @ Paramount too? p/n#?

 

[Gray Wolf]

We weld 304SS Schedule 40 couplings in the stockpot. Either Paramount of Swagelok can provide the required NPT to compression fittings.

 

[Concentrated_]

New member Ive been a guest for years reading GW columns, much respect sir I've learned a lot and that continues with this thread. I currently rum an mk4 and a cmep-ol ordered my first coil from terp on friday, my question is the reasoning for ball valves on the coil as terpss web site does not have them. I'm only using it on the injectin side to compare and then will make my own bigger one in a stationary container as you all have outlined. Thanks in advance

 

[Dab Strudel]

To be able to isolate it as needed to service and/or disconnect without ruining its contents

 

[Gray Wolf]

What DS said. Other wise not required.

 

[gholladay]

GW,

Have you done any calculations to determine the rate of heat transfer needed to cool the butane/propane from 115°F (pump outlet) to 30°F? I've just purchased my counterflow coil and I want to size a recirculating chiller to attach to it. I need to know how many Watts of cooling is required to keep up with one haskel at working temperature. My collection basin water bath is typically 72°F. I'm assuming a flow rate of 1 lb every 3 minutes.

I am currently using the A6 model with a freezer full of circulated glycol around -20F and 1/2" x 50' wort chillers (one per pump, two pumps total). This model is very effective, but my freezer warms up during the day making runs 6-8 very long, plus I would like to lower the pressure drop on the back side of the pump by shortening my hose lengths and making the counterflow coil self draining.

Here is the calculations I performed. Yall check my numbers!!!

Soooo if q = m cp deltaT

m (mass flow rate - butane/propane) = .33 lb/min = .002494 kg/s

Cp (specifc heat capacity) = 1675 J/kg K

T1 = 46°C
T2 = -1 °C

deltaT (temperature change) = -1-46 = -47°C

q = (.002494 kg/s)(1675 J/kg K)(-47 K)

q = -192 W

This is what I calculated. Can anyone confirm my figures and calculations?

The more challenging part comes when you try to pick the temperature and the flow rate of the cooling solution on the other side of the coil. Any help is appreciated here!

much love!

GH

 

[A6 Grower]

HAHA the "A6 model" Shit, i got my own model of cooler!! Boss!

My freezer also gets warm by the end of the day but i counter that by having my coils in pots of PURE glycol, and then surround them by a 50/50 mixture. The 50/50 usually stays around -20 to -10. I keep a cooler with a few bricks of DI in it, when i need stuff colder i chuck a fist sized chunk in and it drops down pretty quick.

For recovery ive noticed its actually counter productive to go REALLY cold as youll create a vacuum in the coil so i like to stay around 0F as i use a 70/30 mix butane/propane and i dont chill my tank so its sitting at 50psi or so depending on how warm the shop it. Usually at 0f the out side of my coil says the same PSI as the tank its hooked to so im assuming im dropping the solvent down to 0psi by then end of the coil.

I keep temp probes in my pots that are stuck to the outside of the freezer so i know what my temps are. Its not a very consistent way to keep temps down but it works and i dont use my DI. It doesnt take much energy at all to drop room temp solvent down to -40f. Where youll use most cooling energy is cooling the recovery coils.

 

[HG23]

Did you by any chance see an article on web.mit.edu about this? If you go there and search for "18.5 heat exchangers" it will bring up a lesson on calculating efficiency of a counterflow heat exchanger.

 

[Gray Wolf]

GW,

Have you done any calculations to determine the rate of heat transfer needed to cool the butane/propane from 115°F (pump outlet) to 30°F? I've just purchased my counterflow coil and I want to size a recirculating chiller to attach to it. I need to know how many Watts of cooling is required to keep up with one haskel at working temperature. My collection basin water bath is typically 72°F. I'm assuming a flow rate of 1 lb every 3 minutes.

I am currently using the A6 model with a freezer full of circulated glycol around -20F and 1/2" x 50' wort chillers (one per pump, two pumps total). This model is very effective, but my freezer warms up during the day making runs 6-8 very long, plus I would like to lower the pressure drop on the back side of the pump by shortening my hose lengths and making the counterflow coil self draining.

Here is the calculations I performed. Yall check my numbers!!!

Soooo if q = m cp deltaT

m (mass flow rate - butane/propane) = .33 lb/min = .002494 kg/s

Cp (specifc heat capacity) = 1675 J/kg K

T1 = 46°C
T2 = -1 °C

deltaT (temperature change) = -1-46 = -47°C

q = (.002494 kg/s)(1675 J/kg K)(-47 K)

q = -192 W

This is what I calculated. Can anyone confirm my figures and calculations?

The more challenging part comes when you try to pick the temperature and the flow rate of the cooling solution on the other side of the coil. Any help is appreciated here!

much love!

GH

I used 120F output at a pound every three minutes, and added in the heat of vaporization and came up with around 1500 watts at 0C. We use a -20C Thermo Fisher Scientific chiller, rated at around 2000 watts at 0C.

 

[gholladay]

I used 120F output at a pound every three minutes, and added in the heat of vaporization and came up with around 1500 watts at 0C. We use a -20C Thermo Fisher Scientific chiller, rated at around 2000 watts at 0C.

GW,

Thank you!!! That is incredibly helpful. So you use this chiller for one haskel and one coutnerflow coil correct? Sounds like I would need two of these, one for each haskel. Have you had good success with this set up as far as recovery rates go?

Thanks,

GH