Broad mites thread part 2

[Coughie]

Predator mites alone won't work to get rid of broad mites.

This is wrong.

Readers, believe what you wish~


Edit:

I have no idea what studies you're referencing, but I've read many. The idea that I think you're hinting at, is the issue with the predator mites controlling their populations in such a way that they never "finish off" the broad mites / food source. They don't want to starve to death, smart little critters.

But it can be overcome, a few ways.

The one I've suggested previously is with a second order of predators, quaintly about the time the first order is trying to downsize it's population so it doesn't die off completely... BAM! Here comes in the reserve cavalry - and they don't wanna starve either - so it turns into an over-populated predatory scramble for the last broad mites...

Think about it like 100 people trapped on an island and there's 1 coconut tree left... Those coconuts don't last long, no matter who says what or thinks they should be saved for tomorrow.


The other way is with supplemental feeding, so the predatory mites never feel the need to cut back on their breeding.. You can supplementally feed in such a way that they actually increase their predatory breeding, "up to par", because they have the resources to do so... This can take a little longer, the broad mites are still a more rounded nutrition source than any supplemental feedings, but they dont *have* to eat the broad mites, so they can be passed up on..

Do you have salad when you can have candy? But you're having salad if there's only salad, right? (mites + supplemental vs mites)

 

[RetroGrow]

Why hello RetroGrow I was hoping you would pop in. I have a 4k room set up at this spot, I opened all the hoods and turned off the inline fans. The room is panda poly, I also added 3 electric space heaters. I put the plants on a sheet of 5/8 plywood on four 5 gallon buckets too get them off the ground. The thermometer that I am using is a cheapo sun leaves thermometer/ hygrometer combo. I asked the hydro store guy how reliable it was and he said the temp is within 1-2 degrees and the humidity is within 5% give or take. I heated the room up and put the wire probe into the middle of the canopy, the thermometer said it was 134*F in the room I kept the plants in there for about 2 hours. I literally took them to the brink where the leaves were pointed straight up and we're starting to close together in a last ditch effort of survival! I cooled them back down slowly and put them back, in there room which was heat treated also, and wiped down with 100% bleach. All the equipment everything these lil mofos are back????? So for me personally the heat treatment isn't working unless I'm missing something. Any more insight would be appreciated if I missed anything thanks a million....

Don't know what you did wrong, but the heat treatment works. I have done it in multiple locations/grows, and it kills all mites in the room and on the plants. It can be used in flower too. Will not hurt plants, however, 134 degrees is too hot. You only need 118-120 to kill them. Higher and you risk burning the leaves. If you did heat treatment properly, and still have mites, which you have identified by scoping, then that means they are coming in from outside on a continuing basis. They cannot survive those temperatures. You should use multiple thermometers to monitor temps in different parts of the room. It takes a bit of trial and error to get the temps right, but once you have it figured out, it can be repeated in three days to kill any stragglers or new entrants to the room. I would do the treatment at least three times, spaced three days apart. That should be the end of the mites. Note: heat treatment will kill predators also! They really aren't necessary if you use heat, but are excellent to help control any further outbreaks. It really is a simple procedure, but can be a challenge to get the temps right on your initial attempt. Procedure should be repeated! 120 F for one hour should do it, then repeat every three days for three sessions of heat.
Note: if you have a yard, there are probably mites in your yard/on your property. I would be spraying outside with miticides to kill what ever mites are in your yard, as these end up reentering your home.

 

[Timm]

Hey RetroGrow you give bad advice. I saw you preaching on here about heat treatments when I first got BM's. I tried your methods for a month with no success it would knock them back and kill a lot of them but more eggs would hatch

Even in a small 4x8 space which was easy to heat and keep at 120f it didn't work. The only way I managed to get rid of them was throwing everything away and treating clones with avid/forbid.

With that being said, heat treatments do have their place. When you throw all plants out leave equipment in there and heat the room up to kill any possible stragglers on equipment. To defeat BM's you need a multitude of things.

Here's a little shopping list for anyone currently dealing with bm's:

Avid, Forbid,Yucca extract, OG-Biowar, N.Californicus, Swirskii, Space heaters

IMO predators are best used as a preventative alongside og-biowar after you have killed every single broad mite in your room with the other methods. I've tried it all, other people claim success with 1 method but you need to use them all to really eradicate them and ensure that they are all gone. They are definitely the hardest bugs I've ever had to get rid of, mainly due to the fact you can't see them with the naked eye

 

[Bubbamaniac]

This is wrong.

Readers, believe what you wish~


Edit:

I have no idea what studies you're referencing, but I've read many. The idea that I think you're hinting at, is the issue with the predator mites controlling their populations in such a way that they never "finish off" the broad mites / food source. They don't want to starve to death, smart little critters.

But it can be overcome, a few ways.

The one I've suggested previously is with a second order of predators, quaintly about the time the first order is trying to downsize it's population so it doesn't die off completely... BAM! Here comes in the reserve cavalry - and they don't wanna starve either - so it turns into an over-populated predatory scramble for the last broad mites...

Think about it like 100 people trapped on an island and there's 1 coconut tree left... Those coconuts don't last long, no matter who says what or thinks they should be saved for tomorrow.


The other way is with supplemental feeding, so the predatory mites never feel the need to cut back on their breeding.. You can supplementally feed in such a way that they actually increase their predatory breeding, "up to par", because they have the resources to do so... This can take a little longer, the broad mites are still a more rounded nutrition source than any supplemental feedings, but they dont *have* to eat the broad mites, so they can be passed up on..

Do you have salad when you can have candy? But you're having salad if there's only salad, right? (mites + supplemental vs mites)

Hey Coughie I hear you on the re-intro of more sachets. I wouldn't think of such a small creature having such a alert consciousness when it comes to something so primitive as feeding. Eat or starve.... I just found a website that sells kits to breed your own populations of pretty much every predatory mite out there. I haven't checked pricing yet but boy is that a neat idea. I've priced some predator mites and it can get pretty expensive. If you could grow these in a terrarium and introduce them at will you would be unstoppable lol. I would love to post the website, but I don't want to spam the site either, if anyone can't find it and is interested hit me in a pm.

Don't know what you did wrong, but the heat treatment works. I have done it in multiple locations/grows, and it kills all mites in the room and on the plants. It can be used in flower too. Will not hurt plants, however, 134 degrees is too hot. You only need 118-120 to kill them. Higher and you risk burning the leaves. If you did heat treatment properly, and still have mites, which you have identified by scoping, then that means they are coming in from outside on a continuing basis. They cannot survive those temperatures. You should use multiple thermometers to monitor temps in different parts of the room. It takes a bit of trial and error to get the temps right, but once you have it figured out, it can be repeated in three days to kill any stragglers or new entrants to the room. I would do the treatment at least three times, spaced three days apart. That should be the end of the mites. Note: heat treatment will kill predators also! They really aren't necessary if you use heat, but are excellent to help control any further outbreaks. It really is a simple procedure, but can be a challenge to get the temps right on your initial attempt. Procedure should be repeated! 120 F for one hour should do it, then repeat every three days for three sessions of heat.
Note: if you have a yard, there are probably mites in your yard/on your property. I would be spraying outside with miticides to kill what ever mites are in your yard, as these end up reentering your home.

Trust me I know 134 was too hot lol, if my plants could talk they would of called me every name in the book, I never have seen the leaves point straight up they were pissed! I'm sure heat treatment is a viable source of control, but as even you stated and some other people pointed out is the vectors that could possibly be allowing new mites into my space, tomorrow I'm rolling out the caulk gun and sealing it up every crack, and crevice. Also going to implement a changing room clean room and protocols for being sterile, like ocd style.

Hey RetroGrow you give bad advice. I saw you preaching on here about heat treatments when I first got BM's. I tried your methods for a month with no success it would knock them back and kill a lot of them but more eggs would hatch

Even in a small 4x8 space which was easy to heat and keep at 120f it didn't work. The only way I managed to get rid of them was throwing everything away and treating clones with avid/forbid.

With that being said, heat treatments do have their place. When you throw all plants out leave equipment in there and heat the room up to kill any possible stragglers on equipment. To defeat BM's you need a multitude of things.

Here's a little shopping list for anyone currently dealing with bm's:

Avid, Forbid,Yucca extract, OG-Biowar, N.Californicus, Swirskii, Space heaters

IMO predators are best used as a preventative alongside og-biowar after you have killed every single broad mite in your room with the other methods. I've tried it all, other people claim success with 1 method but you need to use them all to really eradicate them and ensure that they are all gone. They are definitely the hardest bugs I've ever had to get rid of, mainly due to the fact you can't see them with the naked eye

Tim what was your exact Ipm schedule if you don't mind me asking?

 

[RetroGrow]

Hey RetroGrow you give bad advice. I saw you preaching on here about heat treatments when I first got BM's. I tried your methods for a month with no success it would knock them back and kill a lot of them but more eggs would hatch

I said it worked, NOT that it was idiot proof.
You managed to screw it up, but it does work.

 

[HL45]

Lol that's got to be the laziest IPM approach I've ever seen

Predator mites alone won't work to get rid of broad mites. The broad mites multiply way too fast for the predator mites to eliminate them. There have been a few studies done saying indoor beneficial bugs are no good for broads. But they will reduce the population and knock them back a bit

Even in a small 4x8 space which was easy to heat and keep at 120f it didn't work. The only way I managed to get rid of them was throwing everything away and treating clones with avid/forbid.

It sounds like you just started over instead of actually beat broad mites. Sorry you had a hard time, I did as well.

Suprised you couldn't get rid of em in a 4 x 8 grow...I was running nearly 50k of flowering lights in three different locations, thousands of square ft total.., i spent lots of money and time and labor rotating through many cides... Best thing I found was heat treating and having a population of swirskiis...where i live we probably have more indoor grows and glassblowers per capita than anywhere else in the world, we have 7 different grow stores, and the largest town in the area has under 200k people. Broad mites have made an impact here. If you use pesticides, organic or not you risk killing off your beneficial bugs. If you have a population of beneficial bugs and some broad mites find their way into your garden odds are in your favor that the beneficials will eat them..if you have a full blown infection and try to get beneficials to take care of if your fighting an uphill battle, I agree. . you may call my IPM lazy but it works for me, it's simple and I beat them in a much larger area than 4x8.

Hygiene and understanding vectors of contamination are two things that helped me come to my solution for broads mites. In my case because of how many growers are in my area, the entire town is a potential vector. The growstores, the grocery store, the bar, etc cold all potentially have broad mites brought in from someone who hasn't identified them. My decision was to have swirskiis everywhere. I order the satchets that come with swirskiis and a food mite for them to eat as well. So then end up sticking around for a while..I still order them every month. Haven't seen a broadmite problem since..

 

[Bubbamaniac]

For a problem that is becoming ever increasingly, there seems to be lots of perspectives. If this problem was super easy too deal with their would be 1 straight forward protocol that everybody uses! Can anybody take the time to describe their successful method in great detail? Vague descriptions just will not suffice here! For example heat treatment using electric heaters preferably 1500w radiant ceramic heaters with hid lights on and hoods opened, get containers off of the ground so they can heat evenly, keep temp of 120* for 2 hrs now view plants with microscope dead bugs look like, dead eggs look like,

Using sulphur I use x brand sulphur at it is 10% I mix in tap/r.o water ph to this range spray at lights out, day 2 we spray with a flame thrower until walls are smoking, day 3 we use canned green beans blended with raw burger meat and throw the mixture all over plants......

Ok I'm losing my mind but I guess the point is the scientific method can be more then helpful and really help people get out of this jam, opposed to use this organic method, or use these miticides done! It needs to be explained in great detail.

Instead of use swirski mites maybe pass on some more info 1 sachet is rated for 3x3 ft of garden or use both mites releasing 1 pack the first week and 20 in week three of introduction. Sorry people I'm not retarded I'm just looking for some in depth approaches and methods included in GREAT detail thanks very much still plugging away and running the gamet...

 

[originalOutkast]

I used Samnite, judo, avid, pylon, forbid, og bio war, akari, nuke em. I used each product for 1 week, applying daily. You need to use the ovicide, then the miticide, just read the labels. You don't want to use the tetronic acid ones back to back. I had to do the regimen for almost 3 months. We had to stop flowering. After the 6 weeks of spraying daily, I took it back to each pesticide every other day for 1 week, and then 1 time a week. I had to kill these bugs, so I figured I would go off label like they do with Botox, lol!!! But I beat them. You have to fully commit to killing these things. The males will pick up the immature females, and carry them on their backs, until they are ready to breed. These bugs are scary, and can go dormant and come out later. They bore into wood, they makes holes in the stems, that they then hide in. We couldn't flower at all, because the pesticides will come through. You can't spray anything for 2 weeks before flower, or some of the pesticides will come through. Be careful, and suit up and mask up when spraying. These bastards can be eradicated, but it's costly. We have been pest free since january. Good luck.

 

[Timm]

For a problem that is becoming ever increasingly, there seems to be lots of perspectives. If this problem was super easy too deal with their would be 1 straight forward protocol that everybody uses! Can anybody take the time to describe their successful method in great detail? Vague descriptions just will not suffice here! For example heat treatment using electric heaters preferably 1500w radiant ceramic heaters with hid lights on and hoods opened, get containers off of the ground so they can heat evenly, keep temp of 120* for 2 hrs now view plants with microscope dead bugs look like, dead eggs look like,

Using sulphur I use x brand sulphur at it is 10% I mix in tap/r.o water ph to this range spray at lights out, day 2 we spray with a flame thrower until walls are smoking, day 3 we use canned green beans blended with raw burger meat and throw the mixture all over plants......

Ok I'm losing my mind but I guess the point is the scientific method can be more then helpful and really help people get out of this jam, opposed to use this organic method, or use these miticides done! It needs to be explained in great detail.

Instead of use swirski mites maybe pass on some more info 1 sachet is rated for 3x3 ft of garden or use both mites releasing 1 pack the first week and 20 in week three of introduction. Sorry people I'm not retarded I'm just looking for some in depth approaches and methods included in GREAT detail thanks very much still plugging away and running the gamet...

You can't expect to be spoon fed information we are all here giving you our input on what works you just have to experiment yourself and find out what works for you just like we all had to.

 

[HL45]

Her is what worked for me....

In a couple of my rooms I just killed the plants and started fresh.

I get the floor up to 115 for at least and hour, get a laser thermomter to verify. I use space heater or propane heater if needed. Usually I just drop my bulbs down to about 8" off the ground. (I use vert bare bulbs) and turn off all ac and ventilation.

I order swirskiis mites once a month that without fail and apply more than recommended. I use one sachet per A small plant in veg. And usually two per a plant in flower, by the time they are in flower they already have a sachet or two on them.

As of now I don't heat treat anymore, just order swirskiis.

Pesticides are good when quarantining new genetics. I never had 100% successful eradication with cides, that's why you will find several different regimens.

 

[Bubbamaniac]

You can't expect to be spoon fed information we are all here giving you our input on what works you just have to experiment yourself and find out what works for you just like we all had to.

Thanks Timm, my methods were not effective so I kind of am asking for the spoon fed route, it's cool if you don't want to break it down. I've obtained a new friend today who is phd from one of the most prominent agriculture schools in the country who is an agricultural entomologist who specializes in broad mites I'm going to meet up with him in a week. It was funny I was talking mite shop with him on the phone, and the fact someone was interested just blew his mind. I'm going to his lab, and we are going to pow wow it up, this should be fun.... Of course I'll share my findings here... He also breeds predatory mites there, and is begging me to give him broad mites lol hahahahaha! That's my kinda dude!!!

 

[HL45]

Thanks Timm, my methods were not effective so I kind of am asking for the spoon fed route, it's cool if you don't want to break it down. I've obtained a new friend today who is phd from one of the most prominent agriculture schools in the country who is an agricultural entomologist who specializes in broad mites I'm going to meet up with him in a week. It was funny I was talking mite shop with him on the phone, and the fact someone was interested just blew his mind. I'm going to his lab, and we are going to pow wow it up, this should be fun.... Of course I'll share my findings here... He also breeds predatory mites there, and is begging me to give him broad mites lol hahahahaha! That's my kinda dude!!!

Awesome! Ask him if they have identified the toxin in bMS yet? Last I checked they hadn't pinned it down or named it yet. I responded right after timms post on the previous page.

 

[Bubbamaniac]

Her is what worked for me....

In a couple of my rooms I just killed the plants and started fresh.

I get the floor up to 115 for at least and hour, get a laser thermomter to verify. I use space heater or propane heater if needed. Usually I just drop my bulbs down to about 8" off the ground. (I use vert bare bulbs) and turn off all ac and ventilation.

I order swirskiis mites once a month that without fail and apply more than recommended. I use one sachet per A small plant in veg. And usually two per a plant in flower, by the time they are in flower they already have a sachet or two on them.

As of now I don't heat treat anymore, just order swirskiis.

Pesticides are good when quarantining new genetics. I never had 100% successful eradication with cides, that's why you will find several different regimens.

Thank you very much do you or anybody else know how long the mites can go into diapause? Thanks for being helpful HL45!

 

[Bubbamaniac]

Ok I've been digging out some info that I've never found anywhere on the net until now I'm going to cut and paste some stuff that may prove helpful, understanding your enemy has been proven in the past so don't mind my cut and paste. I've been digging this stuff out, after researching under different search criteria and starting to build a wealth of information....
This is in regards to over wintering which I believe is an important aspect....
The cold hardiness of the broad mite, Polyphagotarsonemus latus, a key pest in Rhododendron simsii hybrid production in northwestern Europe, was investigated in the laboratory. Survival of eggs, larvae and female adults and reproduction capacity of female P. latus were evaluated following cold exposure at 7 °C. Adult females were also exposed to temperatures of 2 and −3 °C. Further, the supercooling point and lower lethal times of adult females were determined. No eggs survived exposure to 7 °C for 17 or more days. Larval survival upon the cold treatment decreased from 53 to 13 % when exposed to 7 °C for 14 and 49 days, respectively. Two-day-old adult females exposed to 7 °C for up to 42 days did not suffer significant mortality, but when returned to 25 °C their oviposition rates were lower than those of mites maintained at 25 °C. Less than 40 % of females exposed for 13 days to 2 °C survived; only 20 % of these females was able to reproduce upon recovery. Subzero temperatures dramatically decreased survival and reproduction capacity of adult females. The supercooling point of female adults was −16.5 °C. Median lethal times averaged 61.2 h and 9.3 days at −3 and 2 °C, respectively. In conclusion, a long term exposure (up to 6 weeks) of R. simsii plants infested with P. latus to a temperature of 7 °C, which is required for breaking dormancy of the flowers, is not expected to have detrimental effects on the survival and reproductive performance of the female mites.

 

[Bubbamaniac]

I won't cut and paste anymore, but I will say this for some reason if you google broad mites the information is limited. However if you google acarology of broad mites, a wealth of information suddenly becomes available. I encourage anybody dealing with this too do this, or anybody interested in just reading about it to use that phrase! I will post pics Monday of my current plants and how they are recovering thank you too everybody who has contributed to this thread!

 

[who dat is]

Please forgive me as I'm wading in and I'm not up to speed but wanted to mention that I've had good success against russet mites with several treatments of green cleaner follow up with predator mites with several days inbetween mite application and green cleaner.

 

[Bubbamaniac]

Please forgive me as I'm wading in and I'm not up to speed but wanted to mention that I've had good success against russet mites with several treatments of green cleaner follow up with predator mites with several days inbetween mite application and green cleaner.

Nice that's great! All these micro beasties are pretty difficult to deal with. My plants seem to be recovering atm. I'm getting by spraying them with horticultural oil every three days, and then after they dry I spray them with OG-Biowar. When I spray the OG-Biowar I turn off the a.c. And all the fans and use a Vick's Vapo Rub cool mist humidifier, with r.o. Water in it. To get the humidity up there.I've been treating with just these two things now for just over a week, and all the new shoots are growing beautifully, I'm going to order some predator mites here in a day or two to finish the job. Also ordered Grandevo, and pfr-97 cheers!

 

[who dat is]

A copy and paste from another thread where somebody mentioned they had russets. This will work, at least it did for me

Don't add any sulphur in conjunction with or after any sprays using oils, the two together create a phytotoxic effect on your plants. I'm also not a fan of OG Biowar as I personally think it is a vastly overpriced product where %70 of the product itself is Talc.

I had recent success against Russet Mites by using Green Cleaner for 2 or 3 applications, 3 days apart to initially knock them their numbers down. Apply the predator mites several days after your last green cleaner application so that they won't be killed off by it before they can do what they are supposed to do. I would order predator mites right now and get them to you before any additional damage is done. The nice thing about the mites is that they will stick around if cared for and will continually do work against spider, russet, and broad mites. I ordered mine from Evergreen Growers Supply. Here is a link where they break down what good mites will combat the bad, specifically for cannabis. http://www.evergreengrowers.com/crop-recommendations/cannabis-crop-recommendation/medical-marijuana-crop-recommendations.html

Here are the relevant ones for you that I had on my last order that I was very happy with,

Amblyseius swirskii - For Russets, Broads
Hypoaspis (Stratiolaelaps scimitus Womersley) - General soil mite, good defender against fungus gnats, etc.
Amblyseius fallacis on bean leaves - Good attacker against spider mites and good general defense
Amblyseius cucumeris Rapid Release - Also eats russet mites and good defense.

Seafour also recently recommended to me to get bee pollen to apply to the plants after a time so that they can feed off of it after bad mite populations begin to dwindle and the good mites can eat that as well as the bad mites to survive.

With all of this you can create the perfect defense to really knock them out and also keep them around so they don't stick around. I would venture a guess that if Russets are around then they are all over so you want to create this good environment for the beneficial predators to exist and stick around to perpetually keep the Russets off your plants. Keep us posted, no need to lose sleep

 

[moses wellfleet]

The only way to get rid of them for sure is to burn down the house. But you can control them very effectively with swirskii mites. It is expensive but at least they do all the work for you, no spraying. I have been using swirskii mites for years!

 

[Nobody'sNursery]

Bubba maniac... Horticultural oil is a very important part of the broad mite ipm. It suffocates the adults but more importantly the eggs. The ovacidal effect is what your missing in the routine mentioned above. I use suffoil X brand sprayed at 80ml per gal for knockdown and 40ml per gal to dunk clones or small plants. Stopping the eggs from hatching is key to population reduction.

If you read the label for avid or forbid they will tell you to knock back an infestation with horticulture oil first before you start the pesticide rotations. It's the back bone your ipm has been missing IMO.

Not all brands are good for cannabis. Some are too greasy and will cook your leaves. Always spray oils after lights out. Also, it's not for flower only veg plants.