Breeding with wild hemp

[Tripitaka]

Here in Europe most ecological shops sell hemp seeds, I also collect wild genetics. The average cbd contents can usually be found in the internet, depending on the strain. Most strains aren't that high in cbd, but I've got a few projects going on where the aim is to increase resing and cannabinoid production by gradully adding drug genetics into the genepool. I hope I'll have a decent protype by next summer. I did have a pretty high cbd strain, which was ornamental hemp, no thc there but still it gave a good buzz. Hard to explain the effect, but it's there!

Smoking hemp flowers might prove disappointing, but if you extract the cbd using asetone or what ever, you can end up with that brainfreezing effect I was talking about.

The funny thing is anyone can do this. Just purchase a pack of hemp tea, add some asetone, shake well, get rid of the green stuff and boil the asetone away. Now you should have a hash like substance very high in cbd. The effect can be heavy, especially if you add just a little thc, minute amounts will make a big difference.

Thanks for the info Thule

I think I might experiment with hemp tea. Do you think some cannabutter made with hemp tea would produce a noticeable CBD effect ?

This paper has info on cannabinoid levels in hemp food products:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/30htjcg3wmk1ncd5/fulltext.pdf

The results show that there is some CBD in hemp tea, the question is, is it enough to have an effect.

I live in the UK so getting hemp seeds (or tea) as a food product isn't a problem. I think I read that food hemp seeds in Europe will germinate, it's in the US where they have been treated so they won't germinate.

What do you think would be the approx. % of CBD in female flowers grown from food hemp seed ? I think I remember Elmanito saying that some hemp strains have 3-4% CBD.

Thanks

 

[Thule]

Thanks for the info Thule

I think I might experiment with hemp tea. Do you think some cannabutter made with hemp tea would produce a noticeable CBD effect ?

This paper has info on cannabinoid levels in hemp food products:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/30htjcg3wmk1ncd5/fulltext.pdf

The results show that there is some CBD in hemp tea, the question is, is it enough to have an effect.

I live in the UK so getting hemp seeds (or tea) as a food product isn't a problem. I think I read that food hemp seeds in Europe will germinate, it's in the US where they have been treated so they won't germinate.

What do you think would be the approx. % of CBD in female flowers grown from food hemp seed ? I think I remember Elmanito saying that some hemp strains have 3-4% CBD.

Thanks

I've mad hash from hemp tea dozens of times with different amounts of added thc, works every time. Half a pack of tea is a good amount to start with and the percentage of cbd (I assume) in the finished product will be more than 10%, enough for an effect. The hemp I used was grown in Austria. Most strains have about 2% cbd but there are strains that have up to 4%, it's just not very common.

Edit: Cannabutter made from hemp tea will have cbd, but I'm not sure if the levels will be high enough to notice. Try and report?

 

[Tripitaka]

I might try cannabutter made with hemp tea at some point, I will report back about any effects if I do.

It would be great if there were more high-CBD strains around, and it would be good if lots of people and maybe some seedbanks did high-CBD breeding projects. I think that some guys on here (Thule, Elmanito) are doing this and I wish them good luck. I think you could make a bit of money selling the seeds ! I think there would be a big demand for them.

CBD is a valuable compound for medical and recreational purposes and it's sad that there isn't more of it about in modern weed. It would be great if there was strain that was something like 10% CBD and 3% THC, I reckon it would be very popular and seedbanks would sell lots of seeds.

I guess landraces are the other place to look apart from hemp strains, I have read that there's a good chance that some of the Real seed company's strains have high CBD levels.

 

[HashMonkey1982]

CBD is a valuable compound for medical and recreational purposes

only medicinal my friend. For recreational purproses and getting "high" CBD is useless. It actually negates most of the THC effect so you wont feel high. That is why CBD was bred out of "drug" strains because it wasn't favourable and didn't produce favourable effects in people looking for a high. Its purely for true medicinal users who need the anti-anxiety, anti-psychotic, anti-flammatory and anti-spasmodic etc effect of it.

peace

 

[burningfire]

I don't know about you but I know people who take anti-anxiety drugs for recreation

CBD is a valuable compound for both medical and recreational purposes, it affects your perception of the high as well.

 

[Tripitaka]

I guess it's a matter of opinion, it depends what type of high the smoker prefers.

Peace

 

[mrred]

i dont thiunk cbd was breed out, more like it was breed for thc and only thc, but if there wasnt cbd i doubt you would enjoy getting high

 

[DocLeaf]

This is what big corporations and the universities want...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zXcraaXAMo

 

[titoon29]

great post !

i love that idea on extracting cbd from tea, very smart !

for medical purposes, it would be cool to extract some high cbd hemp hash, and just mix it with your homegrown herb; to achieve the medical potential seeked. Easier than breeding back in the cbd ?

also there s something nobody talks about on the thread, it s how long CBD stay in your system, compare to THC. mrred made an interesting point about it. i would be very interested to know which cannabinoids stay the longer in the body...

wheni smoke some it takes like 5 minutes to kick in then my heart was beating out my chest and gave me some anxiety(i easly get anxiety from being hungry then getting high) and at first it sorta a get up and go do something high, but the thc must wear off faster than the other stuff(cdb, etc) i felt more relaxed and no urge to smoke anymore, good after feeling.

i m pretty sure with some experience, using the different way that has been used to consume cannabis; we could define a way to identify high cbd phenotypes.

vaping at different temperatures, making oil extract, see the evolution of the high after consumption ?

++

 

[elmanito]

I wonder if a THC-free cannabis plant can survive outside with the UV of the sun all day.Cannabis protects itself by producing more THC, but when the plant is unable to produce any THC.Perhaps you say but normal hemp plants produce not much THC either than cannabis for marijuana production, but then i say thats artificial.It will never produce a THC content of 20% or higher, but a content of 2 or maybe 3% can occur.Finola is example for that where they found some mutants with a THC content of 2%, which is used for the Lowryder creation.

Namaste

 

[titoon29]

and by the way, i ve smoked very decent lowryders, which for some would be compare to some nice dutch strains. i wouldn t believe it at first, but after smoking that i had to !

i remember an outdoor diesel ryder to have me quite fucked up in a smoke session against very good clones indoor, also the lowryder 2 was very tasty but maybe less potent than the DR. the lowryder 1 was disappointing.

++

 

[Thule]

I wonder if a THC-free cannabis plant can survive outside with the UV of the sun all day.Cannabis protects itself by producing more THC, but when the plant is unable to produce any THC.Perhaps you say but normal hemp plants produce not much THC either than cannabis for marijuana production, but then i say thats artificial.It will never produce a THC content of 20% or higher, but a content of 2 or maybe 3% can occur.Finola is example for that where they found some mutants with a THC content of 2%, which is used for the Lowryder creation.

Namaste

On page 9 I expressed my views on the lowryder = Finola subject. What I've noticed is that hemp genes are very dominant in terms of plant structure. Even minute amounts of hemp genes will express themselves as elongated internodes in the offspring. Lowryder is quite the opposite and there have been no finola like phenotypes in any lowryder I've grown, always very compact.

 

[burningfire]

here are some extra pictures of the jungli

they're not in order, if anyone is curious about the dates I'll try and write about that. I imagine it was autoflowering or possibly very early but it started flowering in mid july, it reached a final height of 1.5m

it smells extremely fruity.. and a little like peppermint tea, not really mentholated but if you've had peppermint thing you know what it's like.. there's something fruitier going on though, I'll try and write a more detailed smoke report in a few weeks when it's cured completely, the yields are very poor and it's not very potent but there's a buzz present, I imagine hash from this plant would probably offer a bigger kick.




that plant was hit by two Pakistani Chitral males, I've got about 120 seeds, the plan is to just have fun trying to create a potent ornemental/guerilla plant without trying to achieve huge yields, the chitral will probably help in terms of yield but what I really want is to go through my equatorial/jungle sativas and find a couple of creepers to introduce to this cross.. something like a tangled mess that doesn't look much like cannabis if at all.

 

[Tripitaka]

Nice pics burningfire.

I think I read that most industrial hemp strains have the Bd/Bd allele, which produces mostly CBD and not much THC.

So hemp produces more CBD than THC, but dosen't produce that much of either because the resin production is quite poor compared to drug strains. Is this correct?

If this is correct, then would breeding a strain with high(er) CBD involve crossing hemp with a drug strain with good resin production, so that the Bd gene of hemp is combined with the high resin production genetics of drug strains? Would this result in offspring that have higher CBD than hemp?

I guess that if you used a typical high-THC low-CBD Dutch strain you probably would get Bt/Bd allele seeds, so a mix of THC/CBD in the offspring. But maybe if you used a landrace indica with a Bd gene, you might get Bd/Bd seeds and plants with mostly CBD and little THC.

Would this work or is it not that simple?

Thanks

 

[Thule]

Nice pics burningfire.

I think I read that most industrial hemp strains have the Bd/Bd allele, which produces mostly CBD and not much THC.

So hemp produces more CBD than THC, but dosen't produce that much of either because the resin production is quite poor compared to drug strains. Is this correct?

If this is correct, then would breeding a strain with high(er) CBD involve crossing hemp with a drug strain with good resin production, so that the Bd gene of hemp is combined with the high resin production genetics of drug strains? Would this result in offspring that have higher CBD than hemp?

I guess that if you used a typical high-THC low-CBD Dutch strain you probably would get Bt/Bd allele seeds, so a mix of THC/CBD in the offspring. But maybe if you used a landrace indica with a Bd gene, you might get Bd/Bd seeds and plants with mostly CBD and little THC.

Would this work or is it not that simple?

Thanks

Works both ways. The hemp route is easier but the landrace route will yield stronger plants to start with. I'll have testers of such experiments after new years.

 

[Tripitaka]

Cool. Good luck with your breeding projects. I think I may be trying a similar thing next outdoor season.

Sorry cos this is a pretty basic breeding question, but I'm still not sure about the answer, Does anyone know which parent is dominant in the seeds genetics when breeding ?

What I mean is, will the ganja seeds produced mostly have the characteristics of the female (mother) plant, or the male plant ?

Is it a 50/50 balance of the two parents, or is one parent plant dominant in the seeds genetics ?

Thanks

 

[burningfire]

that depends on gene dominance, I don't fully understand how it works but some genes are recessive and will only show up if both parents have these genes, some are dominant and will dominate a cross.

 

[Thule]

Imo the mother is usually more dominant in the high and smell but the male gives more of the structure. Very inbred strains (typically landraces) tend to be dominant than polyhybrids.

 

[danut]

a 5% solution of KOH in alcohol reacts with CBD to produce a violet color of which the color intensity is dependent on the quantity of CBD, THC and CBN on the other hand produce no color.

You make a solvent extract using a standardized technique and quantity of plant material and evaporate the solvent and low boiling point oils through a steam bath taking note of the yield of oil from the sample. You then take .2ml of the remaining oil and place it on to a plate or test tube and add 4 drops of 5% potassium hydroxide in alcohol (5g powdered KOH in 95ml of alcohol) to the residue and wait a few minutes. You then take note of the color using a color swatches, or a colorimeter. You now know the resin content from the mass of oil produced by the sample, and although not very accurate, you know whether CBD is present and have a very rough idea of it's concentration.

Well .. it's been a while.

I just started playing with this test. Still rough kitchen sink kind of runs, so far.

I had been looking closely at the process that Rick Simpson used for extraction. A minor difference that he does in his process is the addition of water near the end. Different than what most people do when extracting.

I noted that the last step in his procedure was to place the oil in a metal pan and warm until there are no more bubbles being produced.

I'm trying to determine if there is any possibility of some modification of compounds that would "supercharge" the resulting material in it's anti cancer activity.

The simple effect of bubbles being produced seems to indicate the possibility of some sort of reaction taking place. Seems to me at least.

I'm getting to the beam test stuff .. please bear with me.

So I've been working with 99% iso extractions. I theorized that if you added water to the iso AFTER extraction, that the cannabinoids would fall out of solution. I confirmed that something would indeed fall out after the addition of water. My thoughts were a possible purification method ..

Anyway .. Back to the beam test.

What I did: (again .. rough kitchen style searching for a target to focus on)

Took a small bud from a plant. Dried it in an oven at 225F for one hour. Crushed the bud then added about 10 ml 99% iso. Short wash of about 3 min. Evaporated the result at about 200F IN A STAINLESS STEAL CUP (metals act as catalists) until there were no more bubbles observed.

Added 10ml 99% iso again and placed the results in a test tube.

Next added 10ml dilute KOH to the test tube.

Strong violet color was noted. Source material is God Berry. God Bud x Bubble Berry. God Bud is a confirmed source of CBD. God Berry has a very clear creeper effect when smoked.

So far so good.

Then I added water to see what would fall out. What I noticed when I did this was the formation of small bubbles. Yes .. I had a whiteish material fall out. The violet seemed to stay in the water/iso part. It's the bubbles that have me wondering.

Some reaction involving water in a basic solution?

Years ago, there was a machine produced to extract THC from cannabis called the Isomiser. As a part of the extraction process a small amount of H2SO4 would be added to convert any CBD to THC. Is is possible that the addition of a base would convert some of the THC into CBD?

A little more this morning. Ran the test tube through a centrifuge. Decanted the liquid off the top. Dissolved the left over off white mass in 99% iso. Seemed to dissolve completely. Placed the solution in metal cup again to evaporate.

Result is a reddish/violet oil.

 

[burningfire]

I don't want to get into details too much with this one, it's rootbound and growing indoors with afternoon sun.

it smells a little woodsier and more incense but there's still that sweet bottom end the original jungli had.

I'll try and run a few outdoors this summer.