Mrs.Ping29
Member
Read read read! Love all the info just not sure I have enough room in my filing cabinet!
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Breeding for beginners
- Thread starter glasspackedbowl
- Start date
Great idea for a thread! Anyone really into breeding should check out the Python breeding forums.... Those guys have snakes that have isolated crazy receive genes! A little different info but way more science based and factual proven gene isolation techniques and they only get 5-20 eggs a breeding.... It's all in good fun anyways but can be more fun once you get the basics.
My statement to people pollen chucking around the globe.
I haven't seen a true IBL strain brought up on these forums in years.
When you make seeds you are supposed to do so in a way that stabilizes specific traits not just mish mash a bunch of turds together and call it good. Stabilizing a strain takes time and with most of these kids on here time is something they don't have a willingness to wait and make something actually great.
I know I am ranting but I am sick and tired of seeing a bajillion new so called strains pop up every week and they are just garbage. Look at OG Kush look at all 839 different types of OG kush. Now there is not really any pure OG kush around anymore except the one old boy claims to be the original that is. You all know who I mean.
The next is the cookies which already has so many hybrids going on its all you are going to see next year is my guess. I think most of this started with Rezdog as he was simply pumping out new bs every week so he could keep making money of the minions. He did manage to pull together a few so called ibl's but I cannot vouch for their integrity.
Just ranting and keep hoping some of the gems from yesteryear are still viable and still in the right hands. Maybe not all is lost for the future.
I haven't seen a true IBL strain brought up on these forums in years.
When you make seeds you are supposed to do so in a way that stabilizes specific traits not just mish mash a bunch of turds together and call it good. Stabilizing a strain takes time and with most of these kids on here time is something they don't have a willingness to wait and make something actually great.
I know I am ranting but I am sick and tired of seeing a bajillion new so called strains pop up every week and they are just garbage. Look at OG Kush look at all 839 different types of OG kush. Now there is not really any pure OG kush around anymore except the one old boy claims to be the original that is. You all know who I mean.
The next is the cookies which already has so many hybrids going on its all you are going to see next year is my guess. I think most of this started with Rezdog as he was simply pumping out new bs every week so he could keep making money of the minions. He did manage to pull together a few so called ibl's but I cannot vouch for their integrity.
Just ranting and keep hoping some of the gems from yesteryear are still viable and still in the right hands. Maybe not all is lost for the future.
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Dutch Quality
New member
I agree. most of the times seedbanks sell packs with to much different phenotypes in it! A lot of times, when you learn about a great strain and buy the pack, you have maybe one great pheno and the rest is not very great..
Having your own seedstock is the answer for me, but after a few generations the plants will get weak because of inbreeding.
Having your own seedstock is the answer for me, but after a few generations the plants will get weak because of inbreeding.
You can remedy the situation by stabilizing a line or two on your own.
Just remember... bitching aint a part of the solution.
If your not a part of the solution your part of the problem.
Besides, you will never find a strain that exhibits just one phenotype. Technically speaking... every single seed plant is an individual, not having the same genetic recombinations of its siblings. Even within 1:1 matings.
Diversity is wonderful! Its a trait of landrace strains.
I withdraw some of what I originally stated. Its just that for the money it seems a lot of things ought to be better than they are. I also realize a lot of people just jumped into making seeds for a profit and nothing else. And MJ you are exactly correct on stabilizing our own stuff as time and space permit.
I only have 2 real lines I have really messed with more than one generation, but think that more than a couple of the right ones is enough for most people anyway.
Its just that I really miss looking at the old seed catalogues and reading it time and time again....not that I would ever have any need for more than a meager few offerings.
*Its a sellers market. Especially in the US where everybody thinks they can buy their perfect image of themselves..
Only old catalogues I've seen are downloaded.
They're a neat piece of nostalgia, no doubt.
I wish I had latched on to this hobby 10 years sooner while I was a simple consumer paying outrageous prices for beautiful bouquets.
Last time I saw a paper catalogue was before emery went down in the front cover of the old CC magazine. Back in the day they used to send a paper catalogue with nearly every order and you would always see new ones and just imagine what they would be like from the short paragraph description. Then OG happened and the rest is history.
All this being said. We are in the present and if things are to be correct for future generations then I think a great deal of more care should be placed on the current state of this seed breeding.
All this being said. We are in the present and if things are to be correct for future generations then I think a great deal of more care should be placed on the current state of this seed breeding.
earthwyrms
Active member
about breeding...i want to ask here before starting a thread...
this regards a nearly pure sativa.
while i have been unable to find a pure kerala so far...i managed to acquire a "kerala krush". it is around a 9-11 week / 63-77 day flower .
i have read here somewhere, of letting a similar mixed hybrid flower longer and the plants showed the long flowering sativa traits (or that they were good phenos and weren't pulled early/"on time" or culled)
if that is confusing please still bear with me.
say i have a kerala krush in the last ~20 days of flower and previous pollination attempts failed due to unviable pollen...and being that true kerala goes longer in flowering...
also suppose that i have new up and comers showing sacks and want to get at least something with kerala in it, in seed...
***would
>>>partially harvesting and alowing the remainder to be pollinated
or
letting the whole thing go 30-50 days (i prefer days, 107-127 days total, from flower) longer, with pollination
*** give seed development or would the plant only die, with the harvest lowering in quality?
if you can advise or direct me towards pure kerala seed by PM
thanks, well thanks anyway (well, mostly any way lol)
this regards a nearly pure sativa.
while i have been unable to find a pure kerala so far...i managed to acquire a "kerala krush". it is around a 9-11 week / 63-77 day flower .
i have read here somewhere, of letting a similar mixed hybrid flower longer and the plants showed the long flowering sativa traits (or that they were good phenos and weren't pulled early/"on time" or culled)
if that is confusing please still bear with me.
say i have a kerala krush in the last ~20 days of flower and previous pollination attempts failed due to unviable pollen...and being that true kerala goes longer in flowering...
also suppose that i have new up and comers showing sacks and want to get at least something with kerala in it, in seed...
***would
>>>partially harvesting and alowing the remainder to be pollinated
or
letting the whole thing go 30-50 days (i prefer days, 107-127 days total, from flower) longer, with pollination
*** give seed development or would the plant only die, with the harvest lowering in quality?
if you can advise or direct me towards pure kerala seed by PM
thanks, well thanks anyway (well, mostly any way lol)
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The problem is to preserve clone only strains you have to cross and then backcross . Also strains like original haze are better when crossed. As far as landrace there are many from each area like Afghanistan Nepal China Thailand etc. I hope we can keep these heirloom strains while still making new and awesome crosses. Peace sdd
yeah "Eearthwyrms", Just like "Tonygreen" says, Just pollinate the lowest branch or two. I have been doing this for since I began playing around with crosses. As long as you only pollinate carefully, you will only end up with beans on the buds you applied pollen to.
So, you may want to take the plant to be pollinated to another room for this. I like to bring the plant to the pollen, not the other way around. Then get a toothpick or something small that you can brush small amounts of pollen onto stigmas(white hairs). Then just carefully pollinate the desired buds, and you should end up with seeds in the exact calyx where the pollen was applied, =)
Good Luck
PlaidBee
So, you may want to take the plant to be pollinated to another room for this. I like to bring the plant to the pollen, not the other way around. Then get a toothpick or something small that you can brush small amounts of pollen onto stigmas(white hairs). Then just carefully pollinate the desired buds, and you should end up with seeds in the exact calyx where the pollen was applied, =)
Good Luck
PlaidBee
To pollinate & not contaminate:
Use a small paper sack like a lunch bag or make your own out of parchment paper.
Place a small amount of pollen in a corner and fold it so the pollen can't just fall out.
Placs the sack over a branch that you want to pollenate and use a string, twist tie, zip tie, what have you, to seal the bag around the branch.
Unfold the corner with the pollen in it & shake the bag. This will spread the pollen throughout the bag pollinating every viable pistil in the bag.
Leave bag on for 24-48 hours, shaking at least one more time.
Before you remove the bag, spray your mother down with water, nearly drenching her. (She might get pissed so be prepared to run. Lmao!)
As you are removing the bag, spray down the pollenated branch. Water kills viable pollen.
Waa laa!
Sit back and wait for your seeds ti develop.
I find that feeding your plant the entire time of seed development makes for stronger, longer lasting seed.
Development takes around 5 weeks. I prefer harvedting seed after 6 weeks & typically let them go 7 or 8.
You might look to Flying Dutchmen or KC Brains for Kerala. I seem to remember one of them using/having it.
earthwyrms
Active member
in the earlier part of the operation, i had let the top develop before bringing it down with the plant looking kind like a elephant, lol
extreme lst. originally she was in a philadelphia cream cheese tub and after rising, lst horizontally and getting woody, she was
put in a half gallon milk jug and lst fully down. i had brushed some lower branches/nug sites . and these put on more crystals
and foxtailing so to test and get some smoke, i harvested a tiny popcorn bud two days ago. it had a seed! so i went back in
yesterday and got two more nugs, the main one i attempted to pollinate and one next to it that was probably the other one i tried
pollinating. lol, i think the other one is the one i got two more seeds from. so i think (but have to recheck) that the pistils on the
lowers are reddish or white and dry like, with the main cola fresh . so i re lassoed the main branch and pulled it up so the
main cola is again the highest/apical meristem at ~45 degrees (i started bending the branch slowly but ended up using the
flexing of the root base to do it). the main cola looks like it will take pollen well, the underside is very normal to light/vibrant
green and the top leaves are dark green and some foxtails have started to pop out from the main mass. her main stem was
originally let go and brought down near vertical like an arch then later brought just under the back colas to test their growth, they
may have maxed or near maxed, and now the main cola can get the light better. i think i'll test out the pollen juice because the
zamaldelica sacks are not opening yet (the other male is a jalisco ibl and isn't showing sacks yet). i don't have a male chamber,
want to cull them or want them to take quantum yield or whatever from the females, so i'm thinking of trimming them to keep the
sacks manageable and harvestable and keeping them from pollinating the newer females before they get mature in bud mass.
i'm weighing posting pictures, i'm mostly trusting, just deliberating or something. i was recently gifted a go-pro. i also kind of
want to do it like blynx, where its already done so the viewing is all in one post and shows progression. my space constraints
and situation has me improvising so i'm winging the building/growing and lastly documentation. i'm mostly learning in a chaotic
kind of way and trying to document it scientifically without detracting from my process so i think the kinks worked out with
experience will give a good union of the two. i've got 3 apollo 13BX all turned female so no reproduction of that strain now, 2/3
zamaldelica went female (cracked one's head of. so one is dwarfed and being nursed. facepalm) and a jalisco ibl went male so
i'm weighing open field (box lol) type pollination and phenotype identification practice or using the zam for the kerala and
reluctantly culling it for the jalisco as a near certain father for the up and coming apollo BX and zamaldelicas. i'm leaning
towards open pollination so i can experience the zamaldelica crossed with the apollo 13 BX although i want to test the zam with
jalisco, so might open pollinate. this is what i mean, it's all up in the air, so mostly i'll just run it and see. i just tried squeezing
the pollen juice on the plant and realized the main cola has no pistils! so i did it on a nug close to the main cola that did have
pistils and collected some other sacks to see if they will open this early. i guess the main cola is past fertilization or about to
grow pistils now being elevated to the light (all new to me).
ok, edit: i just found a pollen sack open so the proof or not of the juice being viable is not proveable from this grow's situation. i
also found a just about open sack, busted it open found pollen and touched the kerala and a small budsite on an apollo BX. i
guess i'm going with open pollenation. mostly, this run is to test the yield from a 7 band LED. the kerala krush started and mostly
matured in a philadelphia cream cheese tub and was transfered to a half gallon milk jug. this is hopefully compared to a variety
of strains
(zamaldelica, jalisco ibl, apollo BX, king congo female died but i got the 3 seeds from a male i used on kerala (or it selfed but probably not, being near my pollination attempts, harvest will maybe give better data))
in peanut butter containers and the same measured soil in taller but narrower seltzer bottles. the healthier zamaldelica female
is in a larger laundry packet container and the jalisco is in a 2 liter bottle. they were started at full soil pack, with the laundry
container and 2 liter ones stated at half fill until roots hit bottom (after about a week from the (two cubed inch volume) soil plugs
being transplanted in), and then the plants and soil/root mass was inverted, removed, the container filled the rest of the way and
the plants replaced. the efficiency will hopefully be dialed in a bit and the more light can be tested with the same container in
the next run. i'm working on micro growing and breeding. like the 1.5sq ft thread but a little over so really a container version for
maxing out efficiency/quality in rubbermaid or other standard container combinations. i might test mini ensure bottle plant "fields
in a field type pollination for reproducing sativa landraces while keeping genetic diversity in a future box. i figure two main
boxes and a fleet of mini pollinators or field pollination imitators so it doesn't take a lifetime to test and self landraces, let alone
make crosses. hopefully it will e successfull at being small, low energy/efficient, undetectable and continually harvestable. sort
of like if we lived in space or other planets that didn't have fields to use and had to do the best we could, or only around rippers
or in the city or around unjust laws. lambsbread in space i have a feeling the importance of marijuana in space will be
realized. lowering intraocular pressure and possibly keeping the immune system active on destroying the damaged cells from
radiation quicker and for mental/spiritual health in hermetic environments.
extreme lst. originally she was in a philadelphia cream cheese tub and after rising, lst horizontally and getting woody, she was
put in a half gallon milk jug and lst fully down. i had brushed some lower branches/nug sites . and these put on more crystals
and foxtailing so to test and get some smoke, i harvested a tiny popcorn bud two days ago. it had a seed! so i went back in
yesterday and got two more nugs, the main one i attempted to pollinate and one next to it that was probably the other one i tried
pollinating. lol, i think the other one is the one i got two more seeds from. so i think (but have to recheck) that the pistils on the
lowers are reddish or white and dry like, with the main cola fresh . so
i re lassoed the main branch and pulled it up so the main cola is again the highest/apical meristem at ~45 degrees (i started bending the branch slowly but ended up using the
flexing of the root base to do it). the main cola looks like it will take pollen well, the underside is very normal to light/vibrant
green and the top leaves are dark green and some foxtails have started to pop out from the main mass. her main stem was
originally let go and brought down near vertical like an arch then later brought just under the back colas to test their growth, they
may have maxed or near maxed, and now the main cola can get the light better. i think i'll test out the pollen juice because the
zamaldelica sacks are not opening yet (the other male is a jalisco ibl and isn't showing sacks yet). i don't have a male chamber,
want to cull them or want them to take quantum yield or whatever from the females, so i'm thinking of trimming them to keep the
sacks manageable and harvestable and keeping them from pollinating the newer females before they get mature in bud mass.
i'm weighing posting pictures, i'm mostly trusting, just deliberating or something. i was recently gifted a go-pro. i also kind of
want to do it like blynx, where its already done so the viewing is all in one post and shows progression. my space constraints
and situation has me improvising so i'm winging the building/growing and lastly documentation. i'm mostly learning in a chaotic
kind of way and trying to document it scientifically without detracting from my process so i think the kinks worked out with
experience will give a good union of the two. i've got 3 apollo 13BX all turned female so no reproduction of that strain now, 2/3
zamaldelica went female (cracked one's head of. so one is dwarfed and being nursed. facepalm) and a jalisco ibl went male so
i'm weighing open field (box lol) type pollination and phenotype identification practice or using the zam for the kerala and
reluctantly culling it for the jalisco as a near certain father for the up and coming apollo BX and zamaldelicas. i'm leaning
towards open pollination so i can experience the zamaldelica crossed with the apollo 13 BX although i want to test the zam with
jalisco, so might open pollinate. this is what i mean, it's all up in the air, so mostly i'll just run it and see. i just tried squeezing
the pollen juice on the plant and realized the main cola has no pistils! so i did it on a nug close to the main cola that did have
pistils and collected some other sacks to see if they will open this early. i guess the main cola is past fertilization or about to
grow pistils now being elevated to the light (all new to me
).#360
ok, edit: i just found a pollen sack open so the proof or not of the juice being viable is not proveable from this grow's situation. i
also found a just about open sack, busted it open found pollen and touched the kerala and a small budsite on an apollo BX. i
guess i'm going with open pollenation. mostly, this run is to test the yield from a 7 band LED. the kerala krush started and mostly
matured in a philadelphia cream cheese tub and was transfered to a half gallon milk jug. this is hopefully compared to a variety
of strains
(zamaldelica, jalisco ibl, apollo BX, king congo female died but i got the 3 seeds from a male i used on kerala (or it selfed but probably not, being near my pollination attempts, harvest will maybe give better data))
in peanut butter containers and the same measured soil in taller but narrower seltzer bottles. the healthier zamaldelica female
is in a larger laundry packet container and the jalisco is in a 2 liter bottle. they were started at full soil pack, with the laundry
container and 2 liter ones stated at half fill until roots hit bottom (after about a week from the (two cubed inch volume) soil plugs
being transplanted in), and then the plants and soil/root mass was inverted, removed, the container filled the rest of the way and
the plants replaced. the efficiency will hopefully be dialed in a bit and the more light can be tested with the same container in
the next run. i'm working on micro growing and breeding. like the 1.5sq ft thread but a little over so really a container version for
maxing out efficiency/quality in rubbermaid or other standard container combinations. i might test mini ensure bottle plant "fields
in a field type pollination for reproducing sativa landraces while keeping genetic diversity in a future box. i figure two main
boxes and a fleet of mini pollinators or field pollination imitators so it doesn't take a lifetime to test and self landraces, let alone
make crosses. hopefully it will e successfull at being small, low energy/efficient, undetectable and continually harvestable. sort
of like if we lived in space or other planets that didn't have fields to use and had to do the best we could, or only around rippers
or in the city or around unjust laws. lambsbread in space
i have a feeling the importance of marijuana in space will be realized. lowering intraocular pressure and possibly keeping the immune system active on destroying the damaged cells from
radiation quicker and for mental/spiritual health in hermetic environments.
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earthwyrms
Active member
pollen netting and early pollination
pollen netting and early pollination
1. i have read someplaces/somewhere on icmag, that some clear netting can be used over male plants to minimize pollen spread. what specific type of netting/material is this?
2. if a mid flowering plant gets pollinated and has swelled calxes instead of buds, will there be further bud development that will form unpollinated flowers (if male pollen is kept from it)?
pollen netting and early pollination
1. i have read someplaces/somewhere on icmag, that some clear netting can be used over male plants to minimize pollen spread. what specific type of netting/material is this?
2. if a mid flowering plant gets pollinated and has swelled calxes instead of buds, will there be further bud development that will form unpollinated flowers (if male pollen is kept from it)?
1. I know of no netting that would accomplish this task.
2. If a mid flower plant gets pollinated, the majority of the plants resources are used for*reproduction, producing viable seeds.
BUT
It depends on how much seed production is happening.
If more than about 50% of the flowers get pollinated, flower production slows significantly. (I'm also guessing about the 50% but feel it's not far from the mark).
2. If a mid flower plant gets pollinated, the majority of the plants resources are used for*reproduction, producing viable seeds.
BUT
It depends on how much seed production is happening.
If more than about 50% of the flowers get pollinated, flower production slows significantly. (I'm also guessing about the 50% but feel it's not far from the mark).
Some banks offer volume from certain breeders but you will have to contact them directly. Not sure who I can mention here but I think Herbie's does (among others).
