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Breeding/cloning whorled phyllotaxy plants!

MangueBeat

Active member
Hello friends! I've been growing weed for almost 20 years and this is the first time I've taken this mutation, and I've had two in a row!
If everything goes well, I might want to keep this mutation and then I have some questions: if I cross these two mutant plants, will the daughters inherit the trait? And in the case of cloning, is the trait passed on to the clones as well? I've read a lot of controversial things about this type of plant... some say they're better, that they yield more, others say they're not, I'm anxious to see how they turn out!

I know the plants are still too young for me to think about cloning or crossing them, but I think it's a good idea to seek information before I need to use it, so that when the time comes I'll already know what I need to do.

These photos are from the beginning, the plants have different ages, about 12 days apart, I need to check the records. The smallest one had an accident when the pot fell at the beginning which delayed it.

a962b0fd-b752-4965-b0fe-b04964850965.jpeg
27a1cac1-f0d0-4413-8e82-ba651e15fa8c.jpeg


**EDIT**

In the image below, the two plants sharing a sunny day outdoors, I kept them in small pots as much as I could to gradually control their growth:

The newest one:

1736520831853.png



The oldest one:

1736520862525.png
 
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phunkeeboodah

Active member
used to get the odd whorled bud in the 90's in some outdoors, the ones that look like a house centipede. always less potent than the rest of the bag
 

Dime

Well-known member
Sometimes they grow out of it after a few sets of leaves,it's unstable ,fleeting and you may see it again in offspring or may only see it the few times you have and most times they are males
 

MangueBeat

Active member
Sometimes they grow out of it after a few sets of leaves,it's unstable ,fleeting and you may see it again in offspring or may only see it the few times you have and most times they are males

These two are feminized. I intend to reverse it with colloidal silver if all goes well.
 
Hi,

Your plant is a tricotylédon . The plant will grow 3 branchess at each node. It often returns to a normal phyllotaxy when(if) it starts growing new branches in a alternate phyllotaxy.

I know some French growers who tried to breed it, but it seems that the mutation was non-transmissible.

Sorry if my English is too crappy, but I try not using a translator
 

MangueBeat

Active member
It's much too soon to assume anything about the plant's morphology. Most likely this plant just skipped a leaf. This happens often.

The mutation is very solid... I saw some reports that after the 4th or 5th node the plant would return to normal, but neither of them did. The older one is producing the 11th node and the younger one the 9th node. Both have a very consistent mutation at the top, all the nodes are triple. The older and taller one has bright bluish-green leaves to the naked eye, a beautiful shade. Both plants require more nitrogen than the "normal" ones, it is clear that they are hungrier, after all they produce 1/3 more plant tissue than the others. I really want to be able to cross one with the other soon and see what happens. For now I am afraid of pruning and losing the mutation. I have read conflicting information about this, some say that the mutation is lost with pruning, others say that it passes to the lateral branches after topping or fimming. I am curious to know how a clone of it (from an axial branch) would do, if it would develop the mutation as it grows or not...

As you can see in the photo below, both plants maintain the solid mutation:

1736514894794.png


The oldest one in the photo below has incredible vigor and requires a lot of nutrients, she is very hungry!

1736514758354.png


The top of this plant is incredible beautiful.

1736515137278.png


The youngest one is also hungry and also very vigorous.

1736515082766.png
 

Airloom

Well-known member
Premium user
The mutation is very solid... I saw some reports that after the 4th or 5th node the plant would return to normal, but neither of them did. The older one is producing the 11th node and the younger one the 9th node. Both have a very consistent mutation at the top, all the nodes are triple. The older and taller one has bright bluish-green leaves to the naked eye, a beautiful shade. Both plants require more nitrogen than the "normal" ones, it is clear that they are hungrier, after all they produce 1/3 more plant tissue than the others. I really want to be able to cross one with the other soon and see what happens. For now I am afraid of pruning and losing the mutation. I have read conflicting information about this, some say that the mutation is lost with pruning, others say that it passes to the lateral branches after topping or fimming. I am curious to know how a clone of it (from an axial branch) would do, if it would develop the mutation as it grows or not...

As you can see in the photo below, both plants maintain the solid mutation:

View attachment 19129864

The oldest one in the photo below has incredible vigor and requires a lot of nutrients, she is very hungry!

View attachment 19129862

The top of this plant is incredible beautiful.

View attachment 19129867

The youngest one is also hungry and also very vigorous.

View attachment 19129866
All of your questions can only be answered by you; which is one of the main reasons we do this.

You can develop your own markers and methods. If you have the time and curiosity, you may discover outcomes no one else can predict or affect!!

I think that’s exciting AND it’s fun to base your decisions on your own observations. Many times history is re written by those willing to ask why and how and also willing to do the work.

🍿
 

MangueBeat

Active member
All of your questions can only be answered by you; which is one of the main reasons we do this.

You can develop your own markers and methods. If you have the time and curiosity, you may discover outcomes no one else can predict or affect!!

I think that’s exciting AND it’s fun to base your decisions on your own observations. Many times history is re written by those willing to ask why and how and also willing to do the work.

🍿

Yeah bro! It has been interesting to grow these special plants ;)
 
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WelderDan

Well-known member
Veteran
Good luck. All the ones I've had over the years were male. Of the few females I've seen flowered, all but one reverted back to alternating phylotaxy. The one that I saw that maintained the whorled trait did not yield as well as her normal sisters. Even with an extra branch/bud per node, they were smaller buds. That thread is around somewhere.

Not saying that's what will happen to you, but only time will tell. Keep us posted.
 

MangueBeat

Active member
Thank you, GMT, for your great contribution! I read your topic "bruised nuts" and now I'm reading "3+3 =?" It's a vast content, but I'm reading it all. I'm loving it. I also want to work with these plants and one day get close to some tri line like yours. I don't know much about genetics, but I've been studying. I would like to find the best way to work with these plants, because I believe I have something special here. After all, in 20 years of growing, I've never seen a tri in person.

I've already taken some clones of them, from what I saw in your topic they also transmit the "tri genes" to their descendants when crossed, which is great!

I got 2 tri plants from 4 seeds, as mentioned before, but there's a third plant with something different, this one didn't show the mutation of 3 leaves per node, only the tripartite cotyledon. I believe it maybe have some % of this locus/gene too.

The third plant
3028a324-bf79-48e1-9833-7b21fb951e77.jpeg


4 plants, 2 tri, 2 bi, among the two bi, one of them was born with one of the cotyledons bipartite.
 

Mate Dave

Propagator
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Having the cotlydons different size shapes is a clue.. I've had the tri thing happen without the cotyledons being different.. It's common in many croses and I think it's down to the blend not being good..

This plant has the same mother as a few lines ive grown. Its the only cross that shows these traits. All the males in this cross show this in thje progeny.

I don't rate the trait.. It's a bit of a novelty.

Any branch that shows the trait if taking some of that parental material it's will replecate it. You can clone past mutations by selecting leaders. This is a method used by plant breeders to create new varaties.

As far as it being usefull for anything commercial I don't see it being used. It's hard to produce a number of cuttings and most of these plants are poor quality.. Name 1 famous cutting that shows this trait while I wait..


Some commercial plant breeders are waiting 10+ years for seedlings to flower,2 3 4 years perhaps to thin out seedlings.. We have established that this trait isnt much use in cannabis in 8 weeks but I hope you find something to keep and enjoy growing it.






I had this pop up out of most the TH seeds, Serious seed, Sagmartha and DJ. I notice it happens when you cross things supposedly unrelated. When the Chromosomes autosomes are dirty and dont shuffle/ fuse properly grab hold of some common DNA and don't align like some parings.. I only see it in stuff that wasnt profeshionally selected or by those selling owt after a loss of parentals..

I've not had anything like it from Sensi seeds or in 10 years of watching my buddy make home made hybrids from landraces and old world clones
 
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MangueBeat

Active member
Having the cotlydons different size shapes is a clue.. I've had the tri thing happen without the cotyledons being different.. It's common in many croses and I think it's down to the blend not being good..

This plant has the same mother as a few lines ive grown. Its the only cross that shows these traits. All the males in this cross show this in thje progeny.

I don't rate the trait.. It's a bit of a novelty.

Any branch that shows the trait if taking some of that parental material it's will replecate it. You can clone past mutations by selecting leaders. This is a method used by plant breeders to create new varaties.

As far as it being usefull for anything commercial I don't see it being used. It's hard to produce a number of cuttings and most of these plants are poor quality.. Name 1 famous cutting that shows this trait while I wait..


Some commercial plant breeders are waiting 10+ years for seedlings to flower,2 3 4 years perhaps to thin out seedlings.. We have established that this trait isnt much use in cannabis in 8 weeks but I hope you find something to keep and enjoy growing it.






I had this pop up out of most the TH seeds, Serious seed, Sagmartha and DJ. I notice it happens when you cross things supposedly unrelated. When the Chromosomes autosomes are dirty and dont shuffle/ fuse properly grab hold of some common DNA and don't align like some parings.. I only see it in stuff that wasnt profeshionally selected or by those selling owt after a loss of parentals..

I've not had anything like it from Sensi seeds or in 10 years of watching my buddy make home made hybrids from landraces and old world clones

I don't think I quite understood your comment... I'm not a commercial breeder, and from what I see, they're just like any other plant. I don't see anything in them that makes them worse so far. Quite the opposite. They produce 1/3 more leaves and branches, and they grow more than normal plants, which is obviously an interesting trait to me, at least. As for the existence of famous tri-cuts, I don't care much. After all, there was a first for everything, and I'm not trying to create a "famous cut." In the country where I live, growing them is illegal, so what's the point of fame?
I just want to try to establish this trait, which to me is not at all "common." I've been growing them for 20 years and this is the first time I've germinated something like this. It's something different, and I think it would be cool to have a line like this.
The plants have very good DNA. The mother's genetics came from a great breeder in Mendocino, and the other part was a selection made from a large pheno hunt, also with strong genetics. I will continue with the idea of perpetuating the trait. I am studying genetics, crosses, genes, etc. I have taken some clones and intend to take more. To my surprise, when I reviewed the photos of the germinations, I noticed that the fourth plant also showed a certain division in the cotyledon. In other words, all of them can have the trait. This is perfect for me. The two plants that I will focus on will be the "tris", and the other two I will use in case I need an "outcross". The focus will be on the genetics of one of the tris in particular, which is the most vigorous of all and the one with the strongest smell. I don't know if it's possible to start a line with just 4 plants but I'll try

Below, a photo of the birth of the fourth plant, which may also have a % of the genes because she was also born with a half-divided cotyledon.

f465bc05-6275-4ea3-9f8b-bce23e8006da.jpeg
 
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