yeah yeh, sure def a fake!
Btw, shame on both of you two guys. And big up to luiz and co for there preservation, my frozer know at least
I dont know shit man, i just know portuguese cause its close to spanish and was trying to translate...
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I dont know shit man, i just know portuguese cause its close to spanish and was trying to translate...
Picked up Robert Connell Clarkes' latest book, Cannabis Evolution and Ethnobotany, cowritten with Mark D. Merlin. Great info about the history of cannabis in Brazil, I'll post a bit. Paraphrasing and without quoting sources...
'Rosado indicated that cannabis was introduced to Brazil from Africa about the middle of the 16th century, if not earlier. 1549 was a significant year because sugar cane planters could bring in 1200 slaves per sugar mill. Cannabis seeds were brought sewn in cloth dolls tied to the rag tag clothes worn by slaves. Cannabis was planted and adapted itself well from Bahia all the way to the Amazonas...'
'Queen Carlota Joaquina, wife of the King of Portugal and Brazil, picked up the habit of using cannabis for psychoactive purposes while the royal court was in Brazil for a number of years to avoid the invasion of their country by Napoleon. (around 1800)
On her death bed she asked her favorite slave, Felisbino, to bring her an infusion of the fibers of 'diamba do amazonas'. Felisbino then gave her an infusion of cannabis and arsenic.
After taking the infusion Dona Carlota felt no pain, took up her guitar and sang, and later dying. Felisbino chose the same end, drinking a diamba infusion with arsenic.'
'During the colonial period in NE Brazil cannabis was used as a mind-altering substance, especially during the annual periods of inactivity between sugarcane harvests when "the white man filled his empty days with perfumed cigars while the black man smoked maconha for it's dreams and torpor!"'
A smoke report from 1946
'I have smoked macumba or diamba. It really does produce visions, however, and a pleasing weariness; the impression is that of one who returns from a ball with the music ringing in one's ears. It would seem the effects vary considerably with individuals.'
'Rosado indicated that cannabis was introduced to Brazil from Africa about the middle of the 16th century, if not earlier. 1549 was a significant year because sugar cane planters could bring in 1200 slaves per sugar mill. Cannabis seeds were brought sewn in cloth dolls tied to the rag tag clothes worn by slaves. Cannabis was planted and adapted itself well from Bahia all the way to the Amazonas...'
'Queen Carlota Joaquina, wife of the King of Portugal and Brazil, picked up the habit of using cannabis for psychoactive purposes while the royal court was in Brazil for a number of years to avoid the invasion of their country by Napoleon. (around 1800)
On her death bed she asked her favorite slave, Felisbino, to bring her an infusion of the fibers of 'diamba do amazonas'. Felisbino then gave her an infusion of cannabis and arsenic.
After taking the infusion Dona Carlota felt no pain, took up her guitar and sang, and later dying. Felisbino chose the same end, drinking a diamba infusion with arsenic.'
'During the colonial period in NE Brazil cannabis was used as a mind-altering substance, especially during the annual periods of inactivity between sugarcane harvests when "the white man filled his empty days with perfumed cigars while the black man smoked maconha for it's dreams and torpor!"'
A smoke report from 1946
'I have smoked macumba or diamba. It really does produce visions, however, and a pleasing weariness; the impression is that of one who returns from a ball with the music ringing in one's ears. It would seem the effects vary considerably with individuals.'
Salve galera,
I'm reviving this thread after much time. I'm a resident of Brazil and have been curious about finding some landrace or heirloom seeds from this continent for some time. I've collected seeds from the notorious 'Prensado,' lol. I think it most likely is imported from Paraguay. Eventually I'll get around to popping some of those though and see what comes of it.
I have read in Revisita Maconha (Ano III #8) this year in an interview with BSC's (Brazilian Seed Company) Fritzman by Marcos Verdim. In the interview he speaks about the origins of the company and business ventures with Arjan and others. Near the end of the interview, Fritzman was asked about the future of BSC. He says he closed the doors and only attends to those who have become like family. They are operating like an association and hopes to return to activity. He's working on a new site design and marketing and hopes to tell more of his story. Also many photos and film to be revealed.
That is more or less verbatim of what was said in the last part of the article. It's several pages and a bit to translate it all. Would be interesting to know if he still attends to whom sends an email though...
I'm reviving this thread after much time. I'm a resident of Brazil and have been curious about finding some landrace or heirloom seeds from this continent for some time. I've collected seeds from the notorious 'Prensado,' lol. I think it most likely is imported from Paraguay. Eventually I'll get around to popping some of those though and see what comes of it.
I have read in Revisita Maconha (Ano III #8) this year in an interview with BSC's (Brazilian Seed Company) Fritzman by Marcos Verdim. In the interview he speaks about the origins of the company and business ventures with Arjan and others. Near the end of the interview, Fritzman was asked about the future of BSC. He says he closed the doors and only attends to those who have become like family. They are operating like an association and hopes to return to activity. He's working on a new site design and marketing and hopes to tell more of his story. Also many photos and film to be revealed.
That is more or less verbatim of what was said in the last part of the article. It's several pages and a bit to translate it all. Would be interesting to know if he still attends to whom sends an email though...
Mined quite a bit more information on the history of cannabis in Brazil. As regards to the slave trade. There's another landrace thread about Peruvian cannabis. A poster was skeptical about the assumption that slaves introduced cannabis to Brazil. It made me wonder how credible the accounts were. To me it sounded like it could be some shit dreamed up by stoners in the 50s and 60s. I'll cut and paste what I wrote in the other thread, the information I found. Since people interested in Brazilian cannabis might be interested. Ignore the references to body cavities..
'Slave coffles carried cannabis to the coast in 1850, because slavers thought the plant drug sustained captives on their forced marches to slave-ship ports. Of the several stages of travel that brought captives across the sea, the marches produced the highest mortality. Slaves valued the plant drug, too. The only known account of seed saving of any plant by a slave in Africa refers to Cannabis Indica. (my note: certainly NLD) In coastal Gabon, the French-American traveler Paul Du Chaillu "once saw a few [liamba] seeds in the possession of a slave in a slave-factory. He was carefully preserving them, intending to plant them in the country to which he should be sold. Du Chailluy encountered this slave perhaps during 1856-59, but he also lived in Gabon as a teenager in the 1840s.
Oral histories of seed saving persisted across the ocean. In 1926, the Brazilian naturalist Manoel Pio Correa published a tradition he had collected in Brazil between 1910 and 1925. He wrote, "With the heinous traffic [cannabis] came from one side of the Atlantic to the other, the seeds brought by unfortunate captives tied into the edges of their wraps and loincloths, who ultimately disseminated [cannabis] to all of South America and the Antilles." Pio Correa's study of useful plants in Brazil is considered encyclopedic and reliable, having emerged from 20 years research in South America, West Africa, Central Africa, North America, Europe and Asia. He offers a plausible mode of seed transport. Slaves entered the Middle Passage mostly unprepared and often unclothed, yet there are similar traditions in Suriname that enslaved West Africans carried concealed rice seeds. Cannabis in Central Africa had a lower importance then rice among West African captives, but it's association with slaving was strong. No other compilations of cannabis-specific folklore repeat Pio Correa's story: although several folk songs include a chorus that celebrates the plant drug's past: "It's from Congo, it's from Congo!/Hey, conga/Hey, conga/Rah, rah, it's from Congo.
More commonly, Brazilian folk songs reference cannabis horticulture. Lyrics describe the plant as "sweetheart of my garden," and remind people to "plant it with great care/always working on it/to see a result."
Brazilian cultivation of Cannabis Indica (NLD) originated with Central African seeds. When the seeds arrived is unknown. The majority of all Central African captives landed in Brazil-316,000 before 1750, 470,000 during 1750-1800, and 1.21 million before 1865. After 1750, 62% disembarked near Rio de Janeiro or in Minas Gerais: the remainder disembarked in Brazil's NE. Two sources suggest cannabis in the 18th century. One weaker, one stronger. The weaker came from Maranhao, where the governor in 1784 offered to send samples to Lisbon of a plant "similar to the ones grown in the north" for cordage. (my note: seems to be hemp, Cannabis Sativa, NLH, grown in Britain and the USA) Portugal grew almost no cannabis, and few Portuguese had any experience with the plant. Portugal tried growing hemp in southernmost Brazil, with little success, and particularly, no success by 1784. (my note: the British had a similar failure in tropical India) So the cannabis mentioned by the governor of Maranhao was likely from African seeds.
The second one, the strongest evidence for 18th century cannabis in Brazil, is from 1749. A young man accused of sodomy (rectums again!) before the inquisition of Lisbon in Minas Gerais, confessed that "aguardiente, with pitar," led to his sin. He swore to never drink or use pitto again. (my note: there's a discussion of words but pitar is most likely cannabis)'
That was a lot of typing, could go on all day but I got to end it. I may need to get this book, seems to be well researched with all sorts of interesting history. The gist here is that the Portuguese weren't very good at growing cannabis. Their attempts and interest was in growing hemp, the narrow leaf European kind, that does poorly in the tropics. The kind the slaves were growing, narrow leaf tropical drug, was not suited to fiber. I need to read more and see if there was any sort of a fiber industry in Brazil. I doubt it. The strains the slaves grew had to come from Africa, whether they were smuggled or purchased from more 'legitimate sources'. I doubt the slaves had a lot of money to buy the seeds, and their masters had little interest in the stuff except as a means of placating the population. Which was probably unnecessary, there was plenty of alcohol and it's something the masters could sell for cash and labor. As opposed to cannabis which the slaves grew themselves thus giving the ruling class no incentive to profit. My take is that out of the hundreds of thousands of slaves, some naked, some not, some of very low rank, others noblemen in their former country, all it would take is a few hundred to have the foresight to smuggle cannabis seeds. It also seems other important plants were brought as well. If I had 5 minutes to prepare to be kidnapped by aliens I'd certainly stick some cannabis and seeds in my pocket. Along with some potatoes, pepper and tomato seeds.'
Another thing we talked about, when the Spaniards introduced hemp to their New World imperial holdings. The Portuguese were unsuccessful in their attempts because Brazil is the wrong place to grow European hemp. Chile especially is perfect for hemp cultivation which started in 1545, in the Quillota Valley, and continued there for the next 400 years. The Mediterranean climate of Chile is similar to Spain so the same temperate hemp strains grown in the mother country could be grown.
'Slave coffles carried cannabis to the coast in 1850, because slavers thought the plant drug sustained captives on their forced marches to slave-ship ports. Of the several stages of travel that brought captives across the sea, the marches produced the highest mortality. Slaves valued the plant drug, too. The only known account of seed saving of any plant by a slave in Africa refers to Cannabis Indica. (my note: certainly NLD) In coastal Gabon, the French-American traveler Paul Du Chaillu "once saw a few [liamba] seeds in the possession of a slave in a slave-factory. He was carefully preserving them, intending to plant them in the country to which he should be sold. Du Chailluy encountered this slave perhaps during 1856-59, but he also lived in Gabon as a teenager in the 1840s.
Oral histories of seed saving persisted across the ocean. In 1926, the Brazilian naturalist Manoel Pio Correa published a tradition he had collected in Brazil between 1910 and 1925. He wrote, "With the heinous traffic [cannabis] came from one side of the Atlantic to the other, the seeds brought by unfortunate captives tied into the edges of their wraps and loincloths, who ultimately disseminated [cannabis] to all of South America and the Antilles." Pio Correa's study of useful plants in Brazil is considered encyclopedic and reliable, having emerged from 20 years research in South America, West Africa, Central Africa, North America, Europe and Asia. He offers a plausible mode of seed transport. Slaves entered the Middle Passage mostly unprepared and often unclothed, yet there are similar traditions in Suriname that enslaved West Africans carried concealed rice seeds. Cannabis in Central Africa had a lower importance then rice among West African captives, but it's association with slaving was strong. No other compilations of cannabis-specific folklore repeat Pio Correa's story: although several folk songs include a chorus that celebrates the plant drug's past: "It's from Congo, it's from Congo!/Hey, conga/Hey, conga/Rah, rah, it's from Congo.
More commonly, Brazilian folk songs reference cannabis horticulture. Lyrics describe the plant as "sweetheart of my garden," and remind people to "plant it with great care/always working on it/to see a result."
Brazilian cultivation of Cannabis Indica (NLD) originated with Central African seeds. When the seeds arrived is unknown. The majority of all Central African captives landed in Brazil-316,000 before 1750, 470,000 during 1750-1800, and 1.21 million before 1865. After 1750, 62% disembarked near Rio de Janeiro or in Minas Gerais: the remainder disembarked in Brazil's NE. Two sources suggest cannabis in the 18th century. One weaker, one stronger. The weaker came from Maranhao, where the governor in 1784 offered to send samples to Lisbon of a plant "similar to the ones grown in the north" for cordage. (my note: seems to be hemp, Cannabis Sativa, NLH, grown in Britain and the USA) Portugal grew almost no cannabis, and few Portuguese had any experience with the plant. Portugal tried growing hemp in southernmost Brazil, with little success, and particularly, no success by 1784. (my note: the British had a similar failure in tropical India) So the cannabis mentioned by the governor of Maranhao was likely from African seeds.
The second one, the strongest evidence for 18th century cannabis in Brazil, is from 1749. A young man accused of sodomy (rectums again!) before the inquisition of Lisbon in Minas Gerais, confessed that "aguardiente, with pitar," led to his sin. He swore to never drink or use pitto again. (my note: there's a discussion of words but pitar is most likely cannabis)'
That was a lot of typing, could go on all day but I got to end it. I may need to get this book, seems to be well researched with all sorts of interesting history. The gist here is that the Portuguese weren't very good at growing cannabis. Their attempts and interest was in growing hemp, the narrow leaf European kind, that does poorly in the tropics. The kind the slaves were growing, narrow leaf tropical drug, was not suited to fiber. I need to read more and see if there was any sort of a fiber industry in Brazil. I doubt it. The strains the slaves grew had to come from Africa, whether they were smuggled or purchased from more 'legitimate sources'. I doubt the slaves had a lot of money to buy the seeds, and their masters had little interest in the stuff except as a means of placating the population. Which was probably unnecessary, there was plenty of alcohol and it's something the masters could sell for cash and labor. As opposed to cannabis which the slaves grew themselves thus giving the ruling class no incentive to profit. My take is that out of the hundreds of thousands of slaves, some naked, some not, some of very low rank, others noblemen in their former country, all it would take is a few hundred to have the foresight to smuggle cannabis seeds. It also seems other important plants were brought as well. If I had 5 minutes to prepare to be kidnapped by aliens I'd certainly stick some cannabis and seeds in my pocket. Along with some potatoes, pepper and tomato seeds.'
Another thing we talked about, when the Spaniards introduced hemp to their New World imperial holdings. The Portuguese were unsuccessful in their attempts because Brazil is the wrong place to grow European hemp. Chile especially is perfect for hemp cultivation which started in 1545, in the Quillota Valley, and continued there for the next 400 years. The Mediterranean climate of Chile is similar to Spain so the same temperate hemp strains grown in the mother country could be grown.
funkyhorse
Well-known member
Hi Revverend
Thank you very much for bringing up this thread, very interesting one
I hope I am not the one skeptical about slaves introducing cannabis to Brazil
I am skeptical about slaves bringing cannabis to spanish viceroyalties and I have been wrong to say south america instead of just spanish viceroyalties
At the time there were different empires and all of them behaved differently. we had the dutch, the portughese, the spanish, the french and the british coming to colonize the americas
Spaniards only started to bring slaves to their colonies by the 18th century
You can see the mark of slave trade in the local population. Chile had no slaves. Argentina very few. Uruguay had but not so much. Peru the same. Ecuador and Colombia seem to have received the biggest load. In Mexico there were no african slaves to my knowledge, but I can well be wrong about that. Spaniards made the local population slaves and when they have decimated the local population by killings or by virus epidemies or pandemies, then they started bringing slaves for about 100 years
Pito in portughese might mean spliff/joint. Pitar is to smoke a pito(spliff). Aguardente being probably cachaça
Jesuits at the same latitude of southermost Brazil were very succesful in Paraguay growing cannabis sativa
I dont know what is european hemp. The latitude of Quillota Valley is not suitable for long flowering sativas, by the end of april it does get cold. I am at the same latitude with a similar climate of Quillota Valley
Thank you very much for posting and bringing up this thread!!
Thank you very much for bringing up this thread, very interesting one
I hope I am not the one skeptical about slaves introducing cannabis to Brazil
I am skeptical about slaves bringing cannabis to spanish viceroyalties and I have been wrong to say south america instead of just spanish viceroyalties
At the time there were different empires and all of them behaved differently. we had the dutch, the portughese, the spanish, the french and the british coming to colonize the americas
Spaniards only started to bring slaves to their colonies by the 18th century
You can see the mark of slave trade in the local population. Chile had no slaves. Argentina very few. Uruguay had but not so much. Peru the same. Ecuador and Colombia seem to have received the biggest load. In Mexico there were no african slaves to my knowledge, but I can well be wrong about that. Spaniards made the local population slaves and when they have decimated the local population by killings or by virus epidemies or pandemies, then they started bringing slaves for about 100 years
Pito in portughese might mean spliff/joint. Pitar is to smoke a pito(spliff). Aguardente being probably cachaça
Jesuits at the same latitude of southermost Brazil were very succesful in Paraguay growing cannabis sativa
I dont know what is european hemp. The latitude of Quillota Valley is not suitable for long flowering sativas, by the end of april it does get cold. I am at the same latitude with a similar climate of Quillota Valley
Thank you very much for posting and bringing up this thread!!
the manga rosa i had from bsc was fine smoke, was sad to lose it
funkyhorse
Well-known member
History of quillotan hemp: https://www.boletinhistoricoshgchile.com/Boletin/Boletin11/5 Cañamo quillotano (Hugo Quilodrán).pdf
Seems spaniards tried local fibers and tried reusing their ropes and failed so this seems to be the reason for them to bring hemp to different colonies and at Quillota Valley was succesful. Are there historical references about other successful attempts?
Thanks for sharing knowledge
Seems spaniards tried local fibers and tried reusing their ropes and failed so this seems to be the reason for them to bring hemp to different colonies and at Quillota Valley was succesful. Are there historical references about other successful attempts?
Thanks for sharing knowledge
Got busy for a few days, sort of got away from this thread. You guys and your links to Spanish language articles. I'll have to get my Spanish speaking friend to translate for me.
Ha ha no, water- was the culprit. He had a good point, I like it when people challenge our assumptions and common knowledge. We all learn that way. It's hard because we hold our ideas so close to our heart, right next to our pride. Then there's the problem of keeping an open mind without being gullible. On the one hand we hold onto our pre-conceptions like precious gold but when we get new information we throw out the old info like garbage. Instead of weighing them equally. Anyway...
It surprised me how little we collectively know about the slave trade. Recently there was an article in National Geographic about the Cahokia, the last documented slave ship to land in the USA. In 1860. The survivors built a town after emancipation that's now part of Montgomery, Alabama. Their descendants carry on their family story, some of the original slaves survived until the 1930s. Here's a link I posted in the other thread, has a list of the crops brought to the plantations in Brazil by the slave ships from Africa.
https://www.geog.psu.edu/sites/www....eychapter2africanethnobotanyintheamericas.pdf
Back to the subject of cannabis cultivation by Spain. There was quite a bit of hemp grown in California, I'll try to post more about it soon. Started in the 18th century. Since this is Brazil landraces I may switch to the cannabis history thread.
Ha ha no, water- was the culprit. He had a good point, I like it when people challenge our assumptions and common knowledge. We all learn that way. It's hard because we hold our ideas so close to our heart, right next to our pride. Then there's the problem of keeping an open mind without being gullible. On the one hand we hold onto our pre-conceptions like precious gold but when we get new information we throw out the old info like garbage. Instead of weighing them equally. Anyway...
It surprised me how little we collectively know about the slave trade. Recently there was an article in National Geographic about the Cahokia, the last documented slave ship to land in the USA. In 1860. The survivors built a town after emancipation that's now part of Montgomery, Alabama. Their descendants carry on their family story, some of the original slaves survived until the 1930s. Here's a link I posted in the other thread, has a list of the crops brought to the plantations in Brazil by the slave ships from Africa.
https://www.geog.psu.edu/sites/www....eychapter2africanethnobotanyintheamericas.pdf
Back to the subject of cannabis cultivation by Spain. There was quite a bit of hemp grown in California, I'll try to post more about it soon. Started in the 18th century. Since this is Brazil landraces I may switch to the cannabis history thread.
this came out of brazil supposedly of paraguan hybrid heritage
