BongRipkenJr's new setup and first time coco grow
- Thread starter Thread starter BongRipkenJR.
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BongRipkenJR.
Active member
I used it as a preventative measure on the first set of clones I got. I will really see how it works on this purple trash. I will let you know in a week if it does what it says it does
B
B. Self Reliant
Coco is my own personal medium of choice, & I think you'll like it! It sounds like you're learning the same lesson that most new coco users learn. . . don't let it go completely dry! It's not like soil, Rockwool or anything else and it has it's own set of rules. You'll pick up on them quick enough. It isn't rocket science. Some things to remember:
- bigger containers allow more time between waterings, so plan accordingly (& realistically)
- a constant cycle of dry medium, saturated medium, dry medium, saturated medium, etc will work, but keeping the medium's moisture content in that "sweet spot" is a real game changer
- If you plan on feeding your plants bottled nutrients, coco coir needs to be flushed every so often. A common way is to go through the dry/wet cycle mentioned above, while ensuring 10-15% run-off at every watering & then feed with only water or a weakened nutrient solution every third watering or so. Better yet get a feel for how long your plants can stay at that "sweet spot" mentioned above, and then flush right before build up becomes an issue
Coco really is great. Very easy to hand water if that's your thing, but also very easy to automate if the need arises.
Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
BongRipkenJR.
Active member
So I used the Liquid Lady Bug on the Purple Trash clones and it seemed to of washed the eggs and mites right off. I will spray them again in two days and hopefully I dont have to resort to azetrol. It looks like a great product though. I just hope it doesnt wash them off and allow the eggs to hatch on the ground or have the mites survive only to come back. It definitely washes everything off though.
BongRipkenJR.
Active member
Ok, so not happy with the roots organic not being an inert medium I purchased some bags of Botanicare coco fiber. I have 3 purple urkel X sour diesel in 2 gallon smart pots with roots organic coco mix. This will be an experiment to see how it does against the others in botanicare. All of the Urkel X Diesel are ready to be transferred into the 2 gallon smart pots. The roots are explosive!!! Super burly and white just popping out of the bottom of the dixie cups!
I was given some samples from Xtreme Gardening so I will have a couple plants that will have a little experiment happening. 1 urkle X diesel in the roots organic coco mix and 1 urkle X diesel in the botanicare straight coco will get a couple things added to see if the will benefit the plants. I was given Mykos(mycorrhizal innoculant), Azos(nitrogen fixing bacteria), and Cal Carb(calcium Carbonate Foliar Spray). Something tells me there really wont be too much of a difference, but who knows! Pictures will be up tomorrow night.
Everything is looking really good! In about a week the SunHutXl will be setup and running a kushier strain, more than likely Jedi Kush. Thanks for stopping by and happy gardening!
I was given some samples from Xtreme Gardening so I will have a couple plants that will have a little experiment happening. 1 urkle X diesel in the roots organic coco mix and 1 urkle X diesel in the botanicare straight coco will get a couple things added to see if the will benefit the plants. I was given Mykos(mycorrhizal innoculant), Azos(nitrogen fixing bacteria), and Cal Carb(calcium Carbonate Foliar Spray). Something tells me there really wont be too much of a difference, but who knows! Pictures will be up tomorrow night.
Everything is looking really good! In about a week the SunHutXl will be setup and running a kushier strain, more than likely Jedi Kush. Thanks for stopping by and happy gardening!
B
B. Self Reliant
From what I understand the RO formula includes the exact nutes/additives that most of us avoid. If you refer to the "Hand Watering Coco" sticky, you'll see what I'm talking about. Some overall trends that have been formulated there over time include using coco that is completely flushed of all nutrients (nutrients to speak of that is. . . something similar to Canna Coco Coir that is ready to go yet free of salts), having some formulated plan for flushing, etc. I don't write this as a "go search for the answer" sort of thing. . . it really is an incredible thread!
Now that you have an inert medium as a starting point, you'll see what coco is all about!
BongRipkenJR.
Active member
Dude, the root growth in the RO is amazing! Better than my drip systems and ebb and flow hydro applications. Tomorrow the transplanting is happening so I will see whats up with the coco finally. The purple trash are gonna be in straight coco as well.
Dude, I like your pictures man. That thread is highly informative. I should be the next pics with the nikon d90.
Dude, I like your pictures man. That thread is highly informative. I should be the next pics with the nikon d90.
I know man, I just made the switch to canna nutes and those 5 liter jugs are a fucking pain in the ass! they sell a tool that is like a little wrench to open them but I found a car oil filter wrench at the depot that works great.
off to a nice start man, J.c. just finished his 1st run in coco and loved it. And yeah, you are correct they will react very fast when they dry out. Don't let that happen or everything be laying on the floor before you know it.
sorry for the ramble man, am stoned.
Anyway, hope you don't mind if i pull up a chair for your 1st run in coco. Am loving coco so far myself...
BongRipkenJR.
Active member
What I did was take a razor blade and slid it underneath the cap and cut the 4 yellow tabs. It came right off 
Pull up a chair. By next week I should have the sun hut xl hooked up as well and rocking 3 trays total. Within a couple weeks they should all be booming and in varying stages.
I think i wont have any problems. This stuff seems fairly easy once you know how it reacts and what to keep everything at. I am used to hydro as well as organic soil, so this just seems like if you keep your ph right, watch out for cal+mag problems, and water frequently you should be good. Its nothing like soil though and seems like hand watering
hydro.
Pull up a chair. By next week I should have the sun hut xl hooked up as well and rocking 3 trays total. Within a couple weeks they should all be booming and in varying stages.
I think i wont have any problems. This stuff seems fairly easy once you know how it reacts and what to keep everything at. I am used to hydro as well as organic soil, so this just seems like if you keep your ph right, watch out for cal+mag problems, and water frequently you should be good. Its nothing like soil though and seems like hand watering
hydro.
BongRipkenJR,
I've had really good success with Spinosad on mites and root critters. You can Google it or get Green Light brand at lowe's. A lot cheaper than azadaractin which works well. Has the same OMRI "may use up to harvest" recommendation.
So far have seen no evidence of phytotoxicity whatsoever, though I've been very careful to not have wet leaves under bright light. I use it as a preventive on new coco for fungus gnats and any other root pests. One thorough soil drenching seems adequate.*
For Spider mofo Mites, I've had really good results by covering the medium with cardboard, and dipping the foliage in a bucket of Spinosad mixed to label specs. You get 100% coverage that way. But VERY IMPORTANT, use a wetting agent. I also spray the walls and floor with same. Then, 36 hours later, second treatment. This appears to kill hatchlings before they can lay eggs.
Very thorough ass kicking. No mites for close to six weeks. I'm planning to do more preventive treatments, like just after 12/12. I prefer not to treat buds, and haven't so far.
Also, the stuff has little or no odor that I can detect. I even use the same batch for the second treatment, *then soil drench with it. I mix it in RO water with non ionic surfactant, aka Wetting Agent, aka Spreader-Sticker. It claims that it will kill most anything except beneficials.
Buena suerte. -Granger
I've had really good success with Spinosad on mites and root critters. You can Google it or get Green Light brand at lowe's. A lot cheaper than azadaractin which works well. Has the same OMRI "may use up to harvest" recommendation.
So far have seen no evidence of phytotoxicity whatsoever, though I've been very careful to not have wet leaves under bright light. I use it as a preventive on new coco for fungus gnats and any other root pests. One thorough soil drenching seems adequate.*
For Spider mofo Mites, I've had really good results by covering the medium with cardboard, and dipping the foliage in a bucket of Spinosad mixed to label specs. You get 100% coverage that way. But VERY IMPORTANT, use a wetting agent. I also spray the walls and floor with same. Then, 36 hours later, second treatment. This appears to kill hatchlings before they can lay eggs.
Very thorough ass kicking. No mites for close to six weeks. I'm planning to do more preventive treatments, like just after 12/12. I prefer not to treat buds, and haven't so far.
Also, the stuff has little or no odor that I can detect. I even use the same batch for the second treatment, *then soil drench with it. I mix it in RO water with non ionic surfactant, aka Wetting Agent, aka Spreader-Sticker. It claims that it will kill most anything except beneficials.
Buena suerte. -Granger
BongRipkenJR.
Active member
Granger2: Thanks dude, but I kind of stay away from any chemicals. I have had some adverse side effects do to pesticides(diazinon, floramite). Liquid Ladybug is an organic peppermint oil extract. It smells delicious when you spray it. I am actually please with it, it washed em right off.
Personally I rarely encounter mites and if I do I don't get infestations. My buddy just gave me some clones that were haggard as fuck so I have to treat em. The liquid lady bug is working though. I have a bottle of azatrol, but I will more than likely never use it. Even though is is OMRI listed it is dangerous! Honestly though, I never get pests of any kind. I have encountered PM though, but that is only through getting clones from someone else. Anything I start from seed and clone myself never gets PM. Most people are assholes though and will give you plants that once had pm, but they "treated". It is ignorance though. They dont realize it is systemic and it will just come back even if it appears gone. Thats why I really have to order some good seeds and just find my keepers.
Personally I rarely encounter mites and if I do I don't get infestations. My buddy just gave me some clones that were haggard as fuck so I have to treat em. The liquid lady bug is working though. I have a bottle of azatrol, but I will more than likely never use it. Even though is is OMRI listed it is dangerous! Honestly though, I never get pests of any kind. I have encountered PM though, but that is only through getting clones from someone else. Anything I start from seed and clone myself never gets PM. Most people are assholes though and will give you plants that once had pm, but they "treated". It is ignorance though. They dont realize it is systemic and it will just come back even if it appears gone. Thats why I really have to order some good seeds and just find my keepers.
Exactly! Never did hydro, but totally know what you saying.
Thanks, am pulling up a chair now.
G
GreenLion
Looking BOSS!
There's a wrench that canna makes, that the hydro store was suppost to give you with your purchase. thats prolly why that shit was so hard to open....I've always wanted to run canna nutes. Big ups!!
There's a wrench that canna makes, that the hydro store was suppost to give you with your purchase. thats prolly why that shit was so hard to open....I've always wanted to run canna nutes. Big ups!!
BongRipkenJR.
Active member
Dude, I will take pics after the transplant today. Those Urkel X Diesel have some booming roots! They're monstrous! I got some Botanicare coco as well. I can't wait to get them flowering!
Hey BongRipkenJr., I just caught on to this thread and I'm running a pretty similar system.
It is very true that the Canna Coco A+B ppm levels (even on a 0.5 EC conversion with a Hanna meter) register about 30% higher than is guaranteed on the bottles. There is more to this system than meets the eye for certain. I contacted Canna some time ago about the discrepancy.
I am using a really similar system to yours. Minus about 1600 watts, and I'm in a 5x5 tent... but otherwise not a lot different.
The mixture I'm using is about 20% Freshly expanded Botanicare Coco, 25% Reclaimed Canna Coco (previous grow), 35% Roots Organic Coco Mix, and 20% Grow Stones (kinda look like lava rock except they are made from recycled plastics). The end result is a mostly coco mix with really a lot of aeration material. After dealing with pure coco for the last 2 years or so it is my personal opinion that plants in coco that has some aeration material can be watered/fed even more frequently with less risk of over-watering, especially post transplant.
My own nutrient system is based around Canna Coco A+B, but at this point I go with the complicated route. KISS only gets a person so far. I use Cal-Mag Plus to dial in the Magnesium ratio (Canna Coco is 1.2% Mag to 4.5% Cal, Cal-Mag Plus is 1.5% mag to 3% cal). I use Liquid Karma just because I like the stuff, my plants are always healthy when using it. I also use DynaGro Pro-Tekt for as a silicon supplement and as my pH up if I need it.
All in all, it winds up being like 4ml/gallon of the A+B, 2ml/gallon of the Cal-Mag Plus, 5ml/gallon of the Liquid Karma, and 3ml/gallon of the Pro-Tekt. My water starts at about .12 ec (60ish ppm) and the final solution is around 1.0ec (500ish ppm). I'll use this for most of veg.
During flowering (12/12 starts tomorrow for my garden) I am using Botanicare Hydroplex 0-10-6 as a bloom enhancer throughout. Starting at 1ml per gallon right with flowering and peaking at about 5ml per gallon around weeks 5-6. In addition, I am also supplementing Bud Candy for the Mag and resin increase (seriously, good stuff, worth the $) as well as Snow Storm Ultra for the resin. It's my first time with this "snake oil" but I did the research and people who use it say it works as advertised.
The last 3 weeks or so of flowering I cut out the Canna A+B macro system and switch to Botanicare Ripe 1-5-4 macro system. This really helps dial in the cal-mag levels for those last few weeks of bloom when extra calcium can interfere with the uptake of more required elements like Magnesium and Potassium. In coco, calcium can't ever be ignored outright, so I run 1-2ml of Cal-Mag plus throughout the whole thing with good results.
For me it is all about run off ppm when it comes to dialing the nutrients in. Right now I am using a 1.05ec solution, getting about 2 liters of runoff (~35%), and the runoff of my mix is about 1.3ec. At 1 liter of run off it's more like 1.5ec.
With non-inert media mixtures, like the Roots Organic Coco mix, I always make sure that the run off EC is within a reasonable range based on my history with testing EC and knowing when problems crop up. I find that if the run off is more than 100% of what is being put in then the plants burn up pretty quick. Runoff isn't a very accurate representation of what is actually in the media but I keep track of every feeding and watering on a spreadsheet and over time I can get an idea of the trends and results of the readings. More of a relational understanding than a direct knowledge.
Anyway. Your setup looks legit. I'll be watching to see how the more simple system works out for you.
Any plant to add Cannazym 0-2-1 for flowering, or any other supplements for that matter? I had a hard time dialing the NPK ratio of Coco A+B without a phosphorus dominant supplement and needed that Cannazym the first few times I was using Coco A+B to dial it properly. I'm not doing enzymes this time around though, hence the (basically 5x as concentrated) Hydroplex, but the stuff did work alright. Just wondering what direction this grow will be heading in.
It is very true that the Canna Coco A+B ppm levels (even on a 0.5 EC conversion with a Hanna meter) register about 30% higher than is guaranteed on the bottles. There is more to this system than meets the eye for certain. I contacted Canna some time ago about the discrepancy.
I am using a really similar system to yours. Minus about 1600 watts, and I'm in a 5x5 tent... but otherwise not a lot different.
The mixture I'm using is about 20% Freshly expanded Botanicare Coco, 25% Reclaimed Canna Coco (previous grow), 35% Roots Organic Coco Mix, and 20% Grow Stones (kinda look like lava rock except they are made from recycled plastics). The end result is a mostly coco mix with really a lot of aeration material. After dealing with pure coco for the last 2 years or so it is my personal opinion that plants in coco that has some aeration material can be watered/fed even more frequently with less risk of over-watering, especially post transplant.
My own nutrient system is based around Canna Coco A+B, but at this point I go with the complicated route. KISS only gets a person so far. I use Cal-Mag Plus to dial in the Magnesium ratio (Canna Coco is 1.2% Mag to 4.5% Cal, Cal-Mag Plus is 1.5% mag to 3% cal). I use Liquid Karma just because I like the stuff, my plants are always healthy when using it. I also use DynaGro Pro-Tekt for as a silicon supplement and as my pH up if I need it.
All in all, it winds up being like 4ml/gallon of the A+B, 2ml/gallon of the Cal-Mag Plus, 5ml/gallon of the Liquid Karma, and 3ml/gallon of the Pro-Tekt. My water starts at about .12 ec (60ish ppm) and the final solution is around 1.0ec (500ish ppm). I'll use this for most of veg.
During flowering (12/12 starts tomorrow for my garden) I am using Botanicare Hydroplex 0-10-6 as a bloom enhancer throughout. Starting at 1ml per gallon right with flowering and peaking at about 5ml per gallon around weeks 5-6. In addition, I am also supplementing Bud Candy for the Mag and resin increase (seriously, good stuff, worth the $) as well as Snow Storm Ultra for the resin. It's my first time with this "snake oil" but I did the research and people who use it say it works as advertised.
The last 3 weeks or so of flowering I cut out the Canna A+B macro system and switch to Botanicare Ripe 1-5-4 macro system. This really helps dial in the cal-mag levels for those last few weeks of bloom when extra calcium can interfere with the uptake of more required elements like Magnesium and Potassium. In coco, calcium can't ever be ignored outright, so I run 1-2ml of Cal-Mag plus throughout the whole thing with good results.
For me it is all about run off ppm when it comes to dialing the nutrients in. Right now I am using a 1.05ec solution, getting about 2 liters of runoff (~35%), and the runoff of my mix is about 1.3ec. At 1 liter of run off it's more like 1.5ec.
With non-inert media mixtures, like the Roots Organic Coco mix, I always make sure that the run off EC is within a reasonable range based on my history with testing EC and knowing when problems crop up. I find that if the run off is more than 100% of what is being put in then the plants burn up pretty quick. Runoff isn't a very accurate representation of what is actually in the media but I keep track of every feeding and watering on a spreadsheet and over time I can get an idea of the trends and results of the readings. More of a relational understanding than a direct knowledge.
Anyway. Your setup looks legit. I'll be watching to see how the more simple system works out for you.
Any plant to add Cannazym 0-2-1 for flowering, or any other supplements for that matter? I had a hard time dialing the NPK ratio of Coco A+B without a phosphorus dominant supplement and needed that Cannazym the first few times I was using Coco A+B to dial it properly. I'm not doing enzymes this time around though, hence the (basically 5x as concentrated) Hydroplex, but the stuff did work alright. Just wondering what direction this grow will be heading in.
BongRipkenJR.
Active member
Right now, I just gave them their first almost full feeding. I had the cuts starting in RO coco mix, but then transplanted into straight botanicare pre rinsed coco. I am using:
Canna Coco A+B
Flora Nectar for a resin production and added Mg(I found it works better than Bud Candy as it is not just a Mg Sulfate derivative. It is also derived from Molasses and cane sugar. Smells like chocolate malt).
Right now I am at about 800 ppms with a 5.9-6.0 pH. I just transplanted some rootbound 5 inch clones into 2 gallon smart pots.
The thing I have noticed about Canna is that it already has enough calcium and magnesium in it. I am not using RO water so the tap water ppms are about 100. I checked the water quality of the area I am growing is pretty tame, but has quite a bit of naturally occurring Ca and Mg. I might have to add a little cal later on.
I too will cut out the a+b for 2-3 weeks before harvest. I will actually start hitting it with some funny stuff. More or less try to enhance the flavor and smell. As far as a bloom enhancer goes, if they are lacking when it comes to P, then they will get some Kool Bloom or something like that. I am a firm believer in keeping it as simple as possible. The Canna rep tried to sell me on the whole line and I kind of laughed. I really don't need that stuff. I have seen super good results with just A+B and a little Ca and Mg. I am not rocking any co2 so I dont know if it will need the extra P to be honest. We will see though. I have no plan really, just give the plants what I feel they need when they need it.
I have seen Snow Storm do its thing and can't stand the product to be honest. I wasn't a fan of Gravity either. Very funky stuff!
Thanks for the info from Canna. Oh, I will be doing a foliar spray with Xtreme Gardening's Cal Carb. So far I have great root growth and veg growth. We will see how it does now that I am increasing the ppms every time I fill my reservoir.
Silica is out of the question for me. My pH sits at 7.0 so I have to add some mad farmer get down after everything is mixed.
Canna Coco A+B
Flora Nectar for a resin production and added Mg(I found it works better than Bud Candy as it is not just a Mg Sulfate derivative. It is also derived from Molasses and cane sugar. Smells like chocolate malt).
Right now I am at about 800 ppms with a 5.9-6.0 pH. I just transplanted some rootbound 5 inch clones into 2 gallon smart pots.
The thing I have noticed about Canna is that it already has enough calcium and magnesium in it. I am not using RO water so the tap water ppms are about 100. I checked the water quality of the area I am growing is pretty tame, but has quite a bit of naturally occurring Ca and Mg. I might have to add a little cal later on.
I too will cut out the a+b for 2-3 weeks before harvest. I will actually start hitting it with some funny stuff. More or less try to enhance the flavor and smell. As far as a bloom enhancer goes, if they are lacking when it comes to P, then they will get some Kool Bloom or something like that. I am a firm believer in keeping it as simple as possible. The Canna rep tried to sell me on the whole line and I kind of laughed. I really don't need that stuff. I have seen super good results with just A+B and a little Ca and Mg. I am not rocking any co2 so I dont know if it will need the extra P to be honest. We will see though. I have no plan really, just give the plants what I feel they need when they need it.
I have seen Snow Storm do its thing and can't stand the product to be honest. I wasn't a fan of Gravity either. Very funky stuff!
Thanks for the info from Canna. Oh, I will be doing a foliar spray with Xtreme Gardening's Cal Carb. So far I have great root growth and veg growth. We will see how it does now that I am increasing the ppms every time I fill my reservoir.
Silica is out of the question for me. My pH sits at 7.0 so I have to add some mad farmer get down after everything is mixed.
That's good knowledge. I have been trying out a variety of new things recently and I'll put that on the list. The Snow Storm is just an experiment. It was a $9 bottle... So it's not like a major loss on the investment if it doesn't come through for me. Thanks for your input though.
Between the 4.5% calcium in Canna A and the Cal-Carb I doubt you'll have too many calcium issues. I ran KoolBloom a little while ago and it did an alright job. I like that they source phosphorus from multiple sources rather than Canna PK 13/14 which is just potassium phosphate.
Good luck to you with your grow. I'm interested to see what this Flora Nectar will do for you.
BongRipkenJR.
Active member
I have used the Flora Nectar quite a few times in the past. I used Sweet as well. Sweet and Bud Candy are very similar. The flora nectar adds a bit more to the equation IMO. Thanks for all the info on Canna. One thing I love about these nutes is the fact that there are no residual salts in my reservoir or on my measuring cup. It is the cleanest mineral based fertilizer I have encountered. Check by in a month and they should be in well into flower by then. I seriously hate vegging. It seems to go by so slow.
I'm gunna have to give that stuff a try then
Something I've been doing recently is mixing my Canna nutrients based on an info paper they released on Coco a few weeks ago. They suggest mixing (no more than) 10ml/L of A and B in a smaller "pre-reservoir" then adding it to a larger reservoir once the solution is finished. I do about 2 tablespoons (30ml) per gallon at a time and mix it ahead of time.
Their methodology there is that the A+B work in harmony, but at low levels in a large reservoir sometimes the bonding processes are not carried out to completion, or the water chemistry (tap) interferes. By creating a stronger starting solution the nutrients manage the chemical interactions quickly and completely. With a 15 gallon reservoir I'm using about 60ml of A and 60ml of B. So I just take a bucket, fill it with 2 gallons of water or so, and mix them in the bucket first.
I haven't really noticed a difference in the overall outcome but I also just started doing it. I do have to agree with the lack of residual in the containers I mix the A+B inside of (except what evaporates out at the bottom of course) even when mixing them at about 80% of maximum concentration possible.
I've gone through maybe 2 gallons of Canna A+B at this point over the last few years and I'm going to try something else soon as a comparison. I really like the ratios available in the Botanicare CNS 17 Coco/Soil Grow, Bloom, and Ripe. Their system is reasonably inexpensive (A gallon of one of them is cheaper than 1L of A and B) and their nutrient calculator keeps the EC under 2.0 (but you can always use less than suggested). Just food for thought, and something to keep your eye out for if you see a journal around using the stuff.
Something I've been doing recently is mixing my Canna nutrients based on an info paper they released on Coco a few weeks ago. They suggest mixing (no more than) 10ml/L of A and B in a smaller "pre-reservoir" then adding it to a larger reservoir once the solution is finished. I do about 2 tablespoons (30ml) per gallon at a time and mix it ahead of time.
Their methodology there is that the A+B work in harmony, but at low levels in a large reservoir sometimes the bonding processes are not carried out to completion, or the water chemistry (tap) interferes. By creating a stronger starting solution the nutrients manage the chemical interactions quickly and completely. With a 15 gallon reservoir I'm using about 60ml of A and 60ml of B. So I just take a bucket, fill it with 2 gallons of water or so, and mix them in the bucket first.
I haven't really noticed a difference in the overall outcome but I also just started doing it. I do have to agree with the lack of residual in the containers I mix the A+B inside of (except what evaporates out at the bottom of course) even when mixing them at about 80% of maximum concentration possible.
I've gone through maybe 2 gallons of Canna A+B at this point over the last few years and I'm going to try something else soon as a comparison. I really like the ratios available in the Botanicare CNS 17 Coco/Soil Grow, Bloom, and Ripe. Their system is reasonably inexpensive (A gallon of one of them is cheaper than 1L of A and B) and their nutrient calculator keeps the EC under 2.0 (but you can always use less than suggested). Just food for thought, and something to keep your eye out for if you see a journal around using the stuff.
