bobblehead overtakes

[Mister_D]

Without slinging shit... I am of the opinion that ebb & flow buckets will have similar results to ppks. I plan on doing both. I'm still undecided on the medium. Perlite with some screen and rocks to hold it down sounds appealing.

Intense growth rates... psh... Imagine being able to control the humidity on point because you're not exchanging the air as much as possible to drop temps... Oh wait, you know about this already...

Two things.
1. PPK vs Ebb/flow, likely similar growth/end result, but the PPK has the advantage of a larger media container to save your plants in the event of a power outage. More important for the remote grow or vacation time, but still a valid consideration. Plus the top fed flood cycle ensures you won't get that layer of salt buildup on the top of your media.

2. Yes I know all about this already Sealed FTW!

 

[bobblehead]

Two things.
1. PPK vs Ebb/flow, likely similar growth/end result, but the PPK has the advantage of a larger media container to save your plants in the event of a power outage. More important for the remote grow or vacation time, but still a valid consideration. Plus the top fed flood cycle ensures you won't get that layer of salt buildup on the top of your media.

2. Yes I know all about this already Sealed FTW!

One thing... Your old man brain forgets that the flood container can be and shape/size for ebb & flow. People ebb & flow anything from tables to buckets. One could always incorporate a feed ring on the top to rinse any residual salts down... with the benefits of full saturation and air exchange from the flood as well.

I'm about solutions, not problems.

 

[otis33]

Bobbles, I'm looking into sealing up one of my rooms now that I kind of know what I'm doing I feel like I can take that step. What kind of split did you get and how much did you spend? I don't live in a med state but I do have a trusted friend who doesHVAC for a living, however if I could do the install myself I wouldrather go that route. I think I remember reading Friedrich makes a plug and play unit. are there any units that I should avoid?

 

[megayields]

I need more OKRA OG porno pics .......thAt shit it just TOO good.....gotta hit it......dying in the heat of Cali desert......kinda going crazy.....

 

[Bonzo]

movin' and shakin' my brotha'! i wanna try a sealed room someday gitten er dun bobbles

 

[bobblehead]

Bobbles, I'm looking into sealing up one of my rooms now that I kind of know what I'm doing I feel like I can take that step. What kind of split did you get and how much did you spend? I don't live in a med state but I do have a trusted friend who doesHVAC for a living, however if I could do the install myself I wouldrather go that route. I think I remember reading Friedrich makes a plug and play unit. are there any units that I should avoid?

My unit is an ideal-air. I bought it second-hand... Cheap. Hookup price. The lines are precharged, but I may have to have them recharged since it is second-hand. It's a DIY split. Respect has nothing but good things to say about his, running for over a year now.

I need more OKRA OG porno pics .......thAt shit it just TOO good.....gotta hit it......dying in the heat of Cali desert......kinda going crazy.....

Why don't you grow some of your own seeds brah? I'll get pics one day...

movin' and shakin' my brotha'! i wanna try a sealed room someday gitten er dun bobbles

Whether or not they listen, I'm going to continue to rattle my cage.





Electrician came by today, and he's coming back tomorrow! This is happening so fast I could vomit from the anxiety!

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Honestly.. I do not believe there is much of a huge difference between PPK and Ebb&Flo when ya really think about it.

Take a look at Alien Dawg's new kiddie pools. He is going to be running them with a wave pulse into soil less media but these are essentially flood tables if ran with a saturation pulse and a media like turface.

Take a flood table/ add tailpieces to your plant containers / and use a media that has a higher water retention/capillary capability over hydroton and you've essentially got a PPK.



D9's 7 Gal tubs filled with turface are mini flood trays... they just have the added ability to wick and are flooded from the top. They drain through the tailpieces rather then back through the pump when the flood cycle has ended.


Which brings me to question why hydroton flooders only flood every 4 hrs as opposed to as often as possible as D9 does with his PPK modules?

_____


Bobs,

I think sentinel may be falling to the wayside with poor customer service and bad availability, but I really do love my generator from them. It is 10 burner adjustable so I can run anything from 2 burners to 10 burners with the flip of a switch. This is really nice as it is adaptive to any size room it lives in in the future.

I don't see how these are any more dangerous then any other gas appliance (granted I should/need to locate my LP tank outside). When running NG I just tapped into black pipe, and there was a regular included with the generator and then flexible line over to the unit.

They do generate a bit of heat, but with the larger number of burners mine kicks on for literally a minute before reaching set-point and turning back off for a considerable amount of time.


Up in MI you might have hydro-shops that do the co2 tank swap, but around here most go to a gas/welding shop and get their balls busted because its apparent what they are there for - returning often to fill up their "beer brewing" tank.


__

otis.. check out goductless dot com. I got my 36k mr slim from here and ordered most of the other components from them as well. (I'm in it for likely around $3500 after all said and done)

Running the electrical was the easy part if you are somewhat familiar with that. It was running the lineset without crimping it and tighenting down the nut over the flared ends that you've got the be careful with. Otherwise I used some R410a guages ordered online and a 2-step vac pump to vac the system down before releasing the unit's precharge.

There should be a thread around somewhere with myself asking a bunch of questions during my planning/install. Guest helped me a ton during that phase.

I got lucky.. my shit works great. (knock on wood).


__

PS - the lines are never pre-charged.. Not sure why this gets advertised. The outdoor UNIT is pre-charged.. typically for a 25' lineset capacity. It gets released into the linsets after your vac down.

 

[megayields]

I brought the genetics to the site.....just need more reqs.....grow big or go home.....kill it broseph!

 

[DrFever]

I Set up a member LED into c02 from a rental place he can have bottles delivered weekly and they don;t care as long as invoice is payed..... There in it for the money as well and at the end of the day you are there valued customer people have to quit being so paranoid and if you can't help then look at propane burners and tanks and ad AC there are monster sized tanks out there even bigger then pictures might cost you 6000 to fill but hey last you all year

 

[Weed Killer]

My unit is an ideal-air.

you should use a surge suppressor with the ideal-air units

http://www.sunlightsupply.com/p-14202-ideal-air-mini-split-13-seer-air-conditioners.aspx

 

[Mister_D]

Honestly.. I do not believe there is much of a huge difference between PPK and Ebb&Flo when ya really think about it.

Take a look at Alien Dawg's new kiddie pools. He is going to be running them with a wave pulse into soil less media but these are essentially flood tables if ran with a saturation pulse and a media like turface.

Take a flood table/ add tailpieces to your plant containers / and use a media that has a higher water retention/capillary capability over hydroton and you've essentially got a PPK.



D9's 7 Gal tubs filled with turface are mini flood trays... they just have the added ability to wick and are flooded from the top. They drain through the tailpieces rather then back through the pump when the flood cycle has ended.

Pretty much sums up what I was going to say to bobble. In reality the PPK is just a slightly more advanced/superior take on ebb/flow. Superior because it solves the salt buildup via top feed, and power failure weakness via the wick, of running ebb/flow. Yes you can add top fed to ebb/flow, but you still won't have the added protection of a wick. Just food for thought my man, I know you will overtake any problems

Also, just in case you forgot there is a step by step tutorial on how to install a minisplit in my redemption thread It's in two parts located a couple pages apart.

 

[otis33]

Bobbles, I'm about to spring for the bonsai heroes, I'd like to just buy the trimmers and hook up my own power supply for 200$ less. What exactly do I need to order for the power supply? I was thinking of some people I could trust to do some trimming for me, but the bonsais sound like a better more economical solution to my extra workload. Thanks!

 

[high life 45]

Interested to see the ebb and flow vs ppk.
Not that I think ebb and flow compares to the ppk as far as growth rates, they do share many similarities..
The importance and benefits of the media wick is often underestimated, at one of my newer spots a top feed line was kinked for almost a week .... the plant was not gettin any pulse or top feed. The capillary action of the pumice saved my plant.



Just promise me you will use some pumice, turface, or diatomite or some kind of rock in there, NOT COCO. A chow mix might work well, but I want to see you crush it first before you experiment..

The most important thing to watch in a ppk grow is the air gap, mess that up and you will lose plants over night.

 

[TheArchitect]

A wick is what makes it superior?

Just set your drains in your e&f so it leaves an inch or two of water....

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

A wick is what makes it superior?

Just set your drains in your e&f so it leaves an inch or two of water....

and inch or 2 in the bottom of the table is different to a wick for 1 reason
perched water table.
the roots cant live in the bottom on the table if its continously flooded. therefore thats root space thats wasted.
now if your table is deep enough that there is enough space anyway then i guess it doesnt matter too much

 

[bobblehead]

_____


Bobs,

I think sentinel may be falling to the wayside with poor customer service and bad availability, but I really do love my generator from them. It is 10 burner adjustable so I can run anything from 2 burners to 10 burners with the flip of a switch. This is really nice as it is adaptive to any size room it lives in in the future.

I don't see how these are any more dangerous then any other gas appliance (granted I should/need to locate my LP tank outside). When running NG I just tapped into black pipe, and there was a regular included with the generator and then flexible line over to the unit.

They do generate a bit of heat, but with the larger number of burners mine kicks on for literally a minute before reaching set-point and turning back off for a considerable amount of time.


Up in MI you might have hydro-shops that do the co2 tank swap, but around here most go to a gas/welding shop and get their balls busted because its apparent what they are there for - returning often to fill up their "beer brewing" tank.


__

You hit the nail on the head. My situation allows for me to use tanks b/c my hydro shop is just down the street, and I'm a licensed cannabis farmer. I can keep the tanks covered in the bed of my truck, and bring them in at night just to keep things quiet in the neighborhood.

I would like the burner for the sake of not messing with tanks... They're not very expensive, its the iponic controller I'm going to get that's gonna cost $1k, but it'll run the whole show and then some. My understanding is that a tank of CO2 can last a whole grow however, so as long as I don't need to have my arm incapacitated again it wouldn't really be that much of a hassle.

So many possibilities... I'll probably get the burner. Either way I have to hook up air-exchange, so its not on my priority list of things I'm concerned about at the moment. Temp and humidity control are going to make a huge difference in my grows.

I Set up a member LED into c02 from a rental place he can have bottles delivered weekly and they don;t care as long as invoice is payed..... There in it for the money as well and at the end of the day you are there valued customer people have to quit being so paranoid and if you can't help then look at propane burners and tanks and ad AC there are monster sized tanks out there even bigger then pictures might cost you 6000 to fill but hey last you all year

CO2 delivery service?! That's wild! IDK that I would be concerned about the delivery guys so much as the neighbors asking why I'm having CO2 delivered to the house. lol

you should use a surge suppressor with the ideal-air units

http://www.sunlightsupply.com/p-14202-ideal-air-mini-split-13-seer-air-conditioners.aspx

Thanks for the tip.

Pretty much sums up what I was going to say to bobble. In reality the PPK is just a slightly more advanced/superior take on ebb/flow. Superior because it solves the salt buildup via top feed, and power failure weakness via the wick, of running ebb/flow. Yes you can add top fed to ebb/flow, but you still won't have the added protection of a wick. Just food for thought my man, I know you will overtake any problems

Also, just in case you forgot there is a step by step tutorial on how to install a minisplit in my redemption thread It's in two parts located a couple pages apart.

Don't even suggest that I would copy something you've already done... I'll go down the hard road and do it my damn self! lol... Thanks buddy.

Bobbles, I'm about to spring for the bonsai heroes, I'd like to just buy the trimmers and hook up my own power supply for 200$ less. What exactly do I need to order for the power supply? I was thinking of some people I could trust to do some trimming for me, but the bonsais sound like a better more economical solution to my extra workload. Thanks!

I bought a 20A 12V power supply from china via ebay. Seems to be working for me. IDK how many amps a bonsai hero uses, but it can't be many. I'm guessing one power supply can run multiple trimmers.

The bonsai hero will save you a ton of time at first... and then you'll just start harvesting more. Then what? Yer fucked. lol... Gotta find helpers. Combining machinery and people has worked well for saving labor costs in the automotive industry...

Interested to see the ebb and flow vs ppk.
Not that I think ebb and flow compares to the ppk as far as growth rates, they do share many similarities..
The importance and benefits of the media wick is often underestimated, at one of my newer spots a top feed line was kinked for almost a week .... the plant was not gettin any pulse or top feed. The capillary action of the pumice saved my plant.



Just promise me you will use some pumice, turface, or diatomite or some kind of rock in there, NOT COCO. A chow mix might work well, but I want to see you crush it first before you experiment..

The most important thing to watch in a ppk grow is the air gap, mess that up and you will lose plants over night.

Promise. I have a wide selection of perlite available to me. I think a mix of chunky and coarse perlite would be good for an application like hydro growing. It just has to be weighed down somehow. Again, its what's readily available to me, in my situation.

A wick is what makes it superior?

Just set your drains in your e&f so it leaves an inch or two of water....

Yeah, I've been thinking about different ways to design an ebb & flow system with ppk elements... basically the wick... b/c the ppk runs the risk of flooding. I'm done with systems that flood rooms. Sub irrigation through the tail piece, with over-sized plumbing, say 4" reduced up to whatever the diameter of those drain pieces are they're currently using. 1 control bucket can control the water level for the whole room. Minimal parts.

edit... ebb & flow with 4" shower drain wick sub irrigation thingamagiggers... how about that? Fast drainage.

 

[bobblehead]

Here's a pic from FREEDOM for BONZ. That thread is full of wonderful information.

Anyway, with a design like this, you can take the flood right to the tops of the buckets, with only one hole to cut. I've had the idea to use shower drains for a while. IDK. Just seems like a real high-flow design. My local Home Depot has large 1"-2" PVC bulkheads now. I guess the hydro growers spoke.

I would modify the design to minimize overall height of the system.

I would strongly encourage EVERYONE to read FREEDOM for BONZ. I really love that thread. Its a real pearl.

 

[willyweed]

can you give the link to that thread please bobblehead? thanks

 

[bobblehead]

FREEDOM for BONZ

Bonz started this thread back in 2005. He started with Krusty style buckets, and moved to ebb & flow... I remembered this, so I decided to go back and re-read it. You'll recognize some of the characters.

 

[bobblehead]

Oh yeah, and 4" shower drains are excessive now that I think about it, because only so much can flow back through the main pipe anyway... but large bulkheads roots can grow down through without clogging, Is that even possible? Are roots going to choke this design out?