bobblehead overtakes

[silver hawaiian]

Let's see here

We have science-science, with references and footnotes and Universities, we have bro-science, some with photos, and bro-science, some without photos!

I'm looking forward to categorizing more varieties of science!

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

The amount of bro science you guys perpetuate in the vert growing forum is hilarious

And this comment, which smacks of ad hominem, is real science?

Everyone is welcome to contribute around here, but just being silly isnt contributing.
So far the vert section is very lowly moderated and everyone just gets along, with very few exceptions

If you really dont like what goes on in this forum then dont read it. Myself and many others have moved from traditional methods to these vert methods and had huge increases in yield/efficiency. Many people here spend time helping others without expecting anything in return.

Everyone gets along.

Dont bring your aggression and attitude from the other forums here and ruin the good thing we have going, please. HGO avoids the ban-stick as much as possible and we like it that way.

 

[greenmatter]

The amount of bro science you guys perpetuate in the vert growing forum is hilarious

and the number of people out there who actually believe that there is only one way to grow a plant OR that every strain will react the same to different grow methods is absolutely stunning.

someone told me a long time ago to believe half of what you see and none of what you hear ........ since then i have seen for myself that yes in fact some strains like to be tied down,topped,or defoliated and others don't

i aint no rocket surgeon, but i have learned to be critical of EVERYTHING including myself. it keeps me on an "even keel" most days and makes me realize that there are many many ways to skin a cat. just because i don't agree with how it is done does not mean that hairless kitties are not a good thing

if diversity is a good thing in my soil mix then there can't be to much wrong with it ............ anywhere

 

[silver hawaiian]

Everyone is welcome to contribute around here, but just being silly isnt contributing.

Attention everyone, do not presume there is a correlation between the number of my posts and the amount of my contributions.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

I'm sorry to say bro, but removing the leaves isn't going to do anything for stored N. Like Veg said, the leaves are solar panels. They contain the machinery that converts water + nutes + light = carbohydrates. Those carbohydrates are stored in the stems and roots of the plants. The leaves are just the production factory.

You're confusing the long term storage of starches and sugars with the storage of mobile compounds and elements such as nitrogen.

and fuck it, you know what really gets me... is that people will believe HGO's misconception because Freds says I'm wrong. Fuck that. Why do people choose to believe some redneck hillbilly behind a PC vs. a 10%er graduate student with documented grows and photo evidence?

I'm gonna go smoke another one...

Now that being said... Peer reviewed literature will always be more credible than what some guys on the internet claim. I've had to read so many peer reviewed articles in the past year for my medical studies, I can't see straight... and I'll tell you what, I will never look at my information sources the same again.

yeah... It doesn't take a degree or anything... I've only had a few classes.
...

It's science.

Dynamics of Nitrogen Uptake and Mobilization in Field-grown Winter Oilseed Rape (Brassica napus) from Stem Extension to Harvest

I. Global N Flows between Vegetative and Reproductive Tissues in Relation to Leaf Fall and their Residual N

P. Malagoli, P. Laine, L. Rossato, A. Ourry

+ Author Affiliations

1. 1 – UMR INRA-UCBN 950 EVA, Ecophysiologie Végétale, Agronomie et nutritions N, C, S, Institut de Biologie Fondamentale et Appliquée, Université de Caen Basse Normandie, F-14032 Caen Cedex, France

• Received June 16, 2004.
• Accepted December 24, 2004.
• Revision received September 8, 2004.

ANNALS OF BOTANY, volume 95, Issue 5 , pp 853-861, 2005

Abstract

• Background and Aims Despite its high capacity to take up nitrate from the soil, winter oilseed rape (Brassica napus) is characterized by a very low N recovery in the reproductive tissues under field conditions. A significant part of the N taken up is lost to the soil in dead leaves during the growth cycle. An accurate description of N dynamics at the whole plant level in each compartment under field conditions should lead to a better understanding of N allocation in B. napus and improvements in the nitrogen harvest index.
• Methods An experiment was conducted in field conditions using sequential weekly 15N labelling to follow N uptake, partitioning and mobilization. Nitrogen labelling (2·5 kg N ha−1; 10 % excess) was analysed weekly (from stem extension to harvest) to distinguish between uptake of new N (labelled) and mobilized N (unlabelled) in the different plant components.
• Key Results and Conclusions N requirements for seed filling were satisfied mainly by N mobilized from vegetative parts (about 73 % of the total N in pods). Determination of the endogenous N flow showed that there was net transfer of N to the pods by leaves (36 %), stem (34 %), inflorescences (22 %) and taproot (8 %). Precise study of N flow from leaves at different nodes revealed the existence of two main groups of leaves in terms of their apparent capacity to mobilize N; 30–60 % and 70–80 % of peak N content occurring during flowering and pod filling, respectively. Moreover, the latter group was found to be the main source of endogenous N from leaves. The mobilization of endogenous N from these leaves was prolonged and concomitant with N accumulation in the pods. A complex pattern of N mobilization from the leaves, to vegetative or reproductive tissues, was revealed. These results will be used to model N partitioning during the growth cycle.

http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/content/95/5/853.abstract

 

[bobblehead]

You're confusing the long term storage of starches and sugars with the storage of mobile compounds and elements such as nitrogen.

Dynamics of Nitrogen Uptake and Mobilization in Field-grown Winter Oilseed Rape (Brassica napus) from Stem Extension to Harvest

I. Global N Flows between Vegetative and Reproductive Tissues in Relation to Leaf Fall and their Residual N

P. Malagoli, P. Laine, L. Rossato, A. Ourry

+ Author Affiliations

1. 1 – UMR INRA-UCBN 950 EVA, Ecophysiologie Végétale, Agronomie et nutritions N, C, S, Institut de Biologie Fondamentale et Appliquée, Université de Caen Basse Normandie, F-14032 Caen Cedex, France

• Received June 16, 2004.
• Accepted December 24, 2004.
• Revision received September 8, 2004.

ANNALS OF BOTANY, volume 95, Issue 5 , pp 853-861, 2005

Abstract

• Background and Aims Despite its high capacity to take up nitrate from the soil, winter oilseed rape (Brassica napus) is characterized by a very low N recovery in the reproductive tissues under field conditions. A significant part of the N taken up is lost to the soil in dead leaves during the growth cycle. An accurate description of N dynamics at the whole plant level in each compartment under field conditions should lead to a better understanding of N allocation in B. napus and improvements in the nitrogen harvest index.
• Methods An experiment was conducted in field conditions using sequential weekly 15N labelling to follow N uptake, partitioning and mobilization. Nitrogen labelling (2·5 kg N ha−1; 10 % excess) was analysed weekly (from stem extension to harvest) to distinguish between uptake of new N (labelled) and mobilized N (unlabelled) in the different plant components.
• Key Results and Conclusions N requirements for seed filling were satisfied mainly by N mobilized from vegetative parts (about 73 % of the total N in pods). Determination of the endogenous N flow showed that there was net transfer of N to the pods by leaves (36 %), stem (34 %), inflorescences (22 %) and taproot (8 %). Precise study of N flow from leaves at different nodes revealed the existence of two main groups of leaves in terms of their apparent capacity to mobilize N; 30–60 % and 70–80 % of peak N content occurring during flowering and pod filling, respectively. Moreover, the latter group was found to be the main source of endogenous N from leaves. The mobilization of endogenous N from these leaves was prolonged and concomitant with N accumulation in the pods. A complex pattern of N mobilization from the leaves, to vegetative or reproductive tissues, was revealed. These results will be used to model N partitioning during the growth cycle.

http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/content/95/5/853.abstract

Thank you for sharing that. Seriously, that is how you object to someones claims. You make your statement, and back it up with real facts.

nvm...






My apologies for coming off as condescending in my last post... I really don't mean to, and often times when I'm frustrated I will lose sight of what I'm trying to communicate. Real world science, i.e. biology and chemistry, can be intimidating for the lay person. Sometimes I forget about that.



Pics this weekend. I'm busy as hell with finals, and trying to build a career in the real world!

 

[Ichabod Crane]

You're confusing the long term storage of starches and sugars with the storage of mobile compounds and elements such as nitrogen.

Dynamics of Nitrogen Uptake and Mobilization in Field-grown Winter Oilseed Rape (Brassica napus) from Stem Extension to Harvest

I. Global N Flows between Vegetative and Reproductive Tissues in Relation to Leaf Fall and their Residual N

P. Malagoli, P. Laine, L. Rossato, A. Ourry

+ Author Affiliations

1. 1 – UMR INRA-UCBN 950 EVA, Ecophysiologie Végétale, Agronomie et nutritions N, C, S, Institut de Biologie Fondamentale et Appliquée, Université de Caen Basse Normandie, F-14032 Caen Cedex, France

• Received June 16, 2004.
• Accepted December 24, 2004.
• Revision received September 8, 2004.

ANNALS OF BOTANY, volume 95, Issue 5 , pp 853-861, 2005

Abstract

• Background and Aims Despite its high capacity to take up nitrate from the soil, winter oilseed rape (Brassica napus) is characterized by a very low N recovery in the reproductive tissues under field conditions. A significant part of the N taken up is lost to the soil in dead leaves during the growth cycle. An accurate description of N dynamics at the whole plant level in each compartment under field conditions should lead to a better understanding of N allocation in B. napus and improvements in the nitrogen harvest index.
• Methods An experiment was conducted in field conditions using sequential weekly 15N labelling to follow N uptake, partitioning and mobilization. Nitrogen labelling (2·5 kg N ha−1; 10 % excess) was analysed weekly (from stem extension to harvest) to distinguish between uptake of new N (labelled) and mobilized N (unlabelled) in the different plant components.
• Key Results and Conclusions N requirements for seed filling were satisfied mainly by N mobilized from vegetative parts (about 73 % of the total N in pods). Determination of the endogenous N flow showed that there was net transfer of N to the pods by leaves (36 %), stem (34 %), inflorescences (22 %) and taproot (8 %). Precise study of N flow from leaves at different nodes revealed the existence of two main groups of leaves in terms of their apparent capacity to mobilize N; 30–60 % and 70–80 % of peak N content occurring during flowering and pod filling, respectively. Moreover, the latter group was found to be the main source of endogenous N from leaves. The mobilization of endogenous N from these leaves was prolonged and concomitant with N accumulation in the pods. A complex pattern of N mobilization from the leaves, to vegetative or reproductive tissues, was revealed. These results will be used to model N partitioning during the growth cycle.

http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/content/95/5/853.abstract

Well duh. So what the heck does this mean. Damn miss a few days and now I have a dang book to read.

 

[bobblehead]

The "bro science" seems to be well documented though...(some painfully critical with attention to detail) ...and not just here in vertville either.

Lets refer to "bro" science as what it is, pseudoscience. There are scientific threads on icmag as well. More are based on pseudoscience.

Attention everyone, do not presume there is a correlation between the number of my posts and the amount of my contributions.

 

[bobblehead]

Well duh. So what the heck does this mean. Damn miss a few days and now I have a dang book to read.

It means that there is some validity in HGO's reasoning... However suddenly removing a majority of the plants leaves has serious metabolic impacts... and I still disagree with the practice.

 

[farmari]

My understanding is that it's best that the maximum possible percentage of leaf to be under high intensity lighting, so remove leaves that are blocking light to other leaves, or else remove the leaves that are blocked from recieving light. But don't remove a leaf if the light hitting said leaf won't hit a different leaf. This seems so simple and probably obvious to everyone but if it is then I don't know what the defoliation debate is all about really.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

Oh the defoliation fight again. I will just shut up and keep plucking leaves slow and steady like I have been doing.

 

[bobblehead]

Oh the defoliation fight again. I will just shut up and keep plucking leaves slow and steady like I have been doing.

Your weed sucks anyway. keep plucking those leaves.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

Well duh. So what the heck does this mean. Damn miss a few days and now I have a dang book to read.

They were looking at how nitrogen gets into the seeds and pods of radish plants. It was found that about 73% of the nitrogen that ended up in the seed pods was moved from some other tissue within the plant. Of this 73% of mobilized nitrogen, 36% came from leaves, 34% from stems, 22% from flowers, and 8% from taproot.

The greater majority of a leaf's nitrogen is contained within the chloroplasts where photosynthesis takes place. When a plant retrieves the nitrogen from it's older leaves the leaves will yellow.

This N mobility implies that a person can game the nitrogen available to a plant by removing fan leaves before their N is mobilized for flower production.

edit; This also implies the possibility that removal of green fan leaves will cause a flowering plant to increase the mobilization of nitrogen from other tissues to meet its needs, instead of simply increasing N uptake from the growing media.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

Precise study of N flow from leaves at different nodes revealed the existence of two main groups of leaves in terms of their apparent capacity to mobilize N; 30–60 % and 70–80 % of peak N content occurring during flowering and pod filling, respectively. Moreover, the latter group was found to be the main source of endogenous N from leaves. The mobilization of endogenous N from these leaves was prolonged and concomitant with N accumulation in the pods.

This last part is interesting. Depending on which node they grew from, some radish leaves contributed significantly more N to the seed pods. There is a parallel with cannabis which yellows and drops the bottom leaves.

 

[greenmatter]

i fuckin LOVE ICmag !!!!!!

and i would smoke a bowl with anyone who thinks the chicken came before the egg or vice versa

 

[Ichabod Crane]

and i would smoke a bowl with anyone who thinks the chicken came before the egg or vice versa

Damn I think they came at the same time. Well no bowl for me I guess.

 

[greenmatter]

sounds like a reasonable argument so you get a dab or two ichabod. it's all good

 

[silver hawaiian]

i fuckin LOVE ICmag !!!!!!

and i would smoke a bowl with anyone who thinks the chicken came before the egg or vice versa

I would like to smoke a bowl with anyone who would like to smoke a bowl.

YOUR MOVE, GREENMATTER

 

[bobblehead]

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

i fuckin LOVE ICmag !!!!!!

and i would smoke a bowl with anyone who thinks the chicken came before the egg or vice versa

Dinosaurs were laying eggs long before chickens walked this earth.


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