BigTokes ~ "How-To" Of The Bio-Buckets 101

[BigToke]

So, my thinking is, that if I introduce some of the aquarium water (or some bio balls)to the system, I am bassically bringing a small colony of bacteria, which would then colonize the whole system in the next two weeks.

……………so true, so true, but at the same time you are also introducing bad bacteria as well but if you have your lava rocks at lest half way under water I thing you’ll do fine.

The tap watter that is available in this area, has a high PPM of 400, and the Ph is 8.0, so I shuld go with General Hydro ferts for hard watter right?

yes that is correct!!

But, the first challenge that I must look after is, how to make a separate system for veg in another room. Basically I see two options:

I am still confessed about way you think that you much separate the system? The Bio-Buckets use the same room for both Veg & Flo ~ your going to use double of every thing for nothing imop………………just run the Bio-Buckets in the Veg stage until you are one week before your going to Flower and then start using Flowering formula until harvest………it’s that simple, if you want to be on the same side you can do a reservoir change-out AFTER the two week stretch!!

 

[Guest]

I am still confessed about way you think that you much separate the system? The Bio-Buckets use the same room for both Veg & Flo ~ your going to use double of every thing for nothing imop………………just run the Bio-Buckets in the Veg stage until you are one week before your going to Flower and then start using Flowering formula until harvest………it’s that simple, if you want to be on the same side you can do a reservoir change-out AFTER the two week stretch!![/QUOTE]


Sorry BT, I guess I was confusing and not clear enough.
I know that you use the same system for veg&flo, and I understand the basic principles that this system uses.

My whish is to optimize productivity, as I have the space and resources needed.

My thinking is: if I use the same system for veg & flo (and I plan on running 3 separate systems, one for each strain, all in the same room), and I have one long flowering sativa (12 weeks) in one of them, and two short flowering indicas (8-9weeks) in the other two systems I encounter a problem:
When the indicas are harvested, the sativa still has 3 weeks to go, and since all the buckets are in the same room, I can not put any new clones in the 2 empty systems, as the light cycle is 12/12.

But if I convert my existing soil room (separate from the BB room) into veg area for BB, then I can just move the plants from the veg room to the flower room, and utilize the 2 empty systems.

So, the goal is to have a perpetual harvest, and that is the only reason behind my thinking of having 2 separate rooms with BB.

So, this is the picture of the future BB room with 3 systems in it:



And this is the picture of the currently used room (2 partitions, one for veg, one for flo):



I hope I have managed to make my self a bit more understandable.
Thanks for your time&effort master!!!

 

[BigToke]

I see, I see……..that’s cool bro, this is going to be one hell of a setup ~ just let me know what I can do to help………..until then have a good one and keep it growing!!

I am having a big dillema: wether to make the new room a sealed one (no exhaust, no intake, just AC, CO2 burner, dehumidifier, and oscilating fans) or not.
Does it really improve the yield that much, so that it is worth the extra cost?

well I’m going to do something I don’t do that often and that is speculate!!........it is my opinion that IF you have the extra money and the know how to make all of this work then I do thank you will get a more denser and higher quality bud, but is the extra cost worth it? This is something that you will have to decide on but if it were me I would grow my first grow without and see what happens and then decide.

Would you consider that 400W/m2 (1m2=11square feet, so that means 36W/sf) is good or should I go stronger?

if your lights are new and your using a 400watts 50,000 lumens per-square foot on a 4x4, but in my setup I have two Bio-Systems running side-by-side with eighteen buckets in each system………see gallery

I started out with three 400watts over each Bio-System (eighteen buckets) that’s a total of 1200watts ~ in my system there is only six buckets over each 400w bulb…………it you lay them out in the farmer brown style (like mine) then what I did was to put the two 400w bulbs on each end of the system horizontal and the one in the middle vertical, this seems to work very well with me and the plants love it…………….each of my Bio-Systems are 2’ 4” wide (just buckets) and the buckets are side-by-side so that you would count them like this 2,4,6….got it. So one 400w bulb only has to cover an area of 2’ 4” wide and 3’ long……..so if you position your bulbs right between that area you are getting the maximum wattage of that bulb………..see gallery


It all sounds very interesting so keep me up to date and good luck with everything……

 

[StealthSniper]

But, the first challenge that I must look after is, how to make a separate system for veg in another room. Basically I see two options:

1) Use the same 5galon buckets, and when the time comes, just use the shut-off valves and move the complete bucket to the flowering romm.
Pros: -no disturbance of the root system
-easy to do, no mess
Cons:-Not economical use of veg space, as the plants in the veg faze have a smaller root system.

2)Use of smaller buckets, with the same 6-8inch net pots. The plants are then moved in the flowering area in the pots.

Pros:-economical use of space, and max productivity
Cons:-disturbance of the root system,
-messy
-still need to develop a good sytem for attaching the net pots to the lid of 2 & 5 gallon system (the idea that I have is to fix the net pots to the smaller 2 gallon lid, and then move the whole lid to the 5 galon buckets, which have a bigger hole in the lid, so that it assomodates the root system, but is still smaller that the 2 gallon lid, which coveres the hole in the 5 galloon lid)

There are 2 main reasons for this complicating :

1. maximize productivity
2. I like to grow more that one variety. Some take longer to flower, and other thake less time, so, if the flower&veg are in the same room, some of the time, the space would not be fully utilized.(example: when I finish a 7-8week indica strain, and I still have to go 3-4weeks for some longer maturing indica, I can not put rooted clones in the system, as there is 12/12 regiment).

That's it for now, imput very much appreciated!!!

Hey Proud Daddy, this is exactly what I've been trying to figure out. I don't plan on different strains, but do want to have a perpetual harvest, and not have the increase of time due to the veg stage being operated in the flowering system....

I've kind of come to the conclusion that the only way to do this is to have two separate systems running, alternating crop times.

Any new ideas, please bring them forward!

 

[ocanabis]

Howdy Bigtoke

I'm in the process of finishing up on building a 6 bucket bio system.I have a question regurding the lava rocks.I remember reading some where in your thread about the Red lava rock is the best.The only lava rock I can find contains a mix of black,gray & red and I'm wandering if this mix will work or not ?I'm attaching a pic so you can see and hopefully advise will follow.



Also,here's some thing else.I've beeb an Aquarium Enthusiest for many years
and I was wandering in lou of using the lava rocks(should the stones above be in appropriate ) if it were possible to use these Bio Stones instead.I use these in my canaster filltration system.Here's a brief description on them.I've also attached a pic of them.

To create biologically sound water as found in nature, you need EHFISUBSTRAT. Biological filtering is based on a natural decomposition of harmful substances using helpful bacteria. They convert ammonia and nitrite into relatively non-toxic nitrate. The efficiency of biological filtration is limited by the media that bacteria are growing on.

With over 18,300 sq. ft./gal. of surface area EHFISUBSTRAT is a specially designed sintered glass. Bacteria are able to stick better to a surface which has a complex pore system.

EHFISUBSTRAT has been specially developed to offer optimum sites for bacteria colonization.



I'd appreciate any feed back from you
Thanks
Ocanabis

 

[BigToke]

…………the mix will work just fine, but if at all possible use all red lava rocks for they are the best!!

………….interesting point about the EHFISUBSTRAT and I want go into detail right now but you will be a million times safer with the lava rocks.

Ps………..I always sock my lava rocks in a solution of H202 because most places that you buy this stuff from either has them outside or at some time or another they have been exposed to the outside and seeing that they were not in the right environment to harbor the good bacteria they will be full of bad bacteria and will not be a good idea to put them start into your grow system ~ you can use a five gallon bucket and put a air stone in the bottom of it and fill if almost to the top with lava rocks, then fill with water/H202, let set over night then rinse them off and put into system with plan tap-water, let system run for one week and your good to go….

 

[ocanabis]

Howdy Bigtoke

Thanks for responding.I will have to buy a few more bags of lava rock any way,so I think I'll grab a couple extra bags so I can get as many reds as possible cause theirs not many reds in the mix.
Also thanks for the tip on preparing the lava in h2o2.I will do that.At what rate of H2O2 do you add to the water.How many ml/pr gal ?
Thanks
Ocanabis

 

[senseless]

hey BT, my exchange rate is around 30 times an hour in one buckets and 20 times an hour in the 2 other buckets.

for a while ive been wondering how the pump should be placed in the container? there is basically 3 ways i can mount it.
1. mounted virtically so it shoots a current of water at the surface causing ripples and splashing wich oxygenates the water(correct?).thats the good part. the bad part is that the water below the surface doesnt have much of a current so the roots just kinda stay still in the water.
2. mounted horizontally so it shoots a current of water directly at the roots and creates a good current of water below the surface. thats the good part. the bad part is now the surface of the water is sitting more still and there is no splashing wich would means the water would have less dissolved o2.
3. mounted diagnoly (sp?) so it shoots a current of water towards the net pot causing it to deflect water to create a slght current below the surface as well as creating a small rippling and splashing on the surface. thats the good part, the bad part is that the water movement is not as intence in the mid-lower section of the bucket.

right now im using the #3 method and its working ok i guess. i would really appretiate your opinion concerning it.

i also wanted to know when you start to flush? and if you just stop adding nutrients or replace ALL the water with fresh water. im on day 40 bloom right now of a 63 day strain and i was thinking mabe one more pk13-14 boost and then flush. what do you think?

thanks big toke. peace

 

[dadda]

Big Toke I had a change in plans and was wandering if you would check it for me. All I am asking for is that you say yes that is what materials you need or no, u need this and that. Any other info is welcome. For a 20 plant bio- bucket I will need the flowing materials right?

20-Black 5 gallon buckets and lids
20-3/4inch shut off valves
20-1''1/4inch Pvc couplings
20-3/4inch pvc elbows
1''1/2inch Pvc pipe
4'' pvc pipe
1-2400mag drive pump
20-1/2inch,3/4inch,1/2inch Reducing Tees
1-24ft of sump hose
20-8inch net pots
1-75foot roll of 3/4inch water hose
1-reservoir Float Valve Assembly
20-3/4inch adaptors
1-55 gallon tub so it has a 1-2 foot drop for oxygen

Is this list correct, any critism or critiques are welcome.

 

[BigToke]

ocanabis ~ one cup per five gallon, make sure that you rinse the lava rocks again after soaking in H202 solution with plain tap-water………….good luck bro.

senseless ~ uaaahhhhh…..don’t you grow in your reservoir? And if so, that how can you have an exchange-rate? You may circulate but exchange? ~ flush? I don’t flush at ALL!! I stop adding nutrients the last week of flowering……….I think you have mine and your system confused some what.

dadda ~ you know dude learning just how much of every thing you need and when to use it is as important as growing, you really do need to read up on this stuff………..the nutrients that I use is GH and all the info you will ever need about the Bio-Buckets can be found within my Bio-Bucket Documentations……….I encourage you to read ALL of the “BigTokes ~ Basic Water Chemistry!!” it has some very important information and I update it as new info is available, last update was three days ago. If you are having extreme trouble over this PM me, ok, but I want You to do the work!!

Ok, now lets talk about the this list: here’s the modifications that I’ve made………..

• 20-Black 5 gallon buckets and lids……………………............…Yes
• 20-3/4inch shut off valves………………………………………..No ~ I assume your talking about the bucket supply line water/hose right? Again, according to my calculations the size of water-hose that you need would be ½ “.
• 20-1''1/4inch Pvc couplings ……………………………………..Yes
• 20-3/4inch pvc elbows ………………………………………….No ~ ½ “.
• 1''1/2inch Pvc pipe ……………………………………………...No ~ ¾ “.
• 4'' pvc pipe…………………………….......................................Yes
• 1-2400mag drive pump………………………………………….No ~ Let me explain further…..this is what you need, see chart.
  
  
  • 1200 GPH Maximum Flow
  • 3/4" MNPT discharge and 3/4" FNPT Intake.
  • 120V with 10ft Long 3 prong grounded Cord suitable for Indoor or Outdoor use
  • Can be operated submersible or in-line.
  • Suitable for Fresh or Saltwater
  • Very powerful.
  • Large Foam Pre-filter #12730 Included
  • Consumes a maximum of 110 Watts.
  • Pump Measurements:6.4"Lx4.5"Wx4.6"H
  • 15' Shut Off.
  • 3 Year Limited Manufacturers Warranty
  HEAD HEIGHT
  0ft. 1ft. 2ft. 3ft. 4ft. 5ft. 6ft. 7ft. 8ft. 9ft. 10ft. 11ft. 12ft. 13ft. 14ft. 15ft.
  GPH 1175, GPH 1160, GPH 1150, GPH 1130, GPH 1120, GPH 950, GPH 810, GPH 710, GPH 650, GPH 600, GPH 500, GPH 450, GPH 300, GPH 130, GPH Shut Off
  
  According to my calculations you only need a 1000,GPH pump, but its better to have more than less so buy the 1200,GPH this will give you an exchange rate of 10 times an hour per-bucket if you adjust your valves right!! Do not have your reservoir more than five feet away from your first Bio-Bucket. Ok, the pump supply line size should be the same size as your pump, ok.
  
• 20-1/2inch,3/4inch,1/2inch Reducing Tees ………………………it will go like this…… ¾ x ¾ x ½ Reducing Tee, that’s the way it should and will read….plumbing 101…….lol
• 1-24ft of sump hose ……………………………………………. my Sump Pump Hose kit that I bought off the internet were 24ft long, that’s enough to do twelve Bio-Buckets if you set them up in the farmer brown style like mine you will need two of these kits………….the site should say how many feet is in each kit.
• 20-8inch net pots ……………………………………………….Yes
• 1-75foot roll of 3/4inch water hose ……………………………… 60-Feet of water hose……..if at all possible get the orange contractors hose, it will say it somewhere on the label.
• 1-reservoir Float Valve Assembly………………………………..Yes
• 20-3/4inch adaptors ……………………………………………..No ~ ½ “.
• 1-55 gallon tub so it has a 1-2 foot drop for oxygen ……………… you will need a reservoir that can hold and exchange 15 gallons of water/solution at a single time ~ soooo you need to buy a reservoir that can hold a total of 15 gallons of water and then just add your two foot drop to it, you should wind up with something like a 25 gallon reservoir just to get that extra one foot drop.

just do the reading and I will help you all that I can, that’s all that I ask!!

 

[dadda]

thankx big toke. I have been doing lots of reading. I even printed out your how to on bio buckets I read it ever time I decide to work on my gro op. I just ask for help when I need reasurance thats all.

 

[senseless]

BIGTOKE -
senseless ~ uaaahhhhh…..don’t you grow in your reservoir? And if so, that how can you have an exchange-rate? You may circulate but exchange? ~ flush? I don’t flush at ALL!! I stop adding nutrients the last week of flowering……….I think you have mine and your system confused some what.

well i guess i dont have an exchange rate but a circulation rate. i know that our systems are diffrent but you know alot about water circulation, mantaining dissolved O2 levels and how the roots absorb nutreints and water the best so im asking your opinion if positoning my pump inside my reservoir diffrently like i mentioned in my last post will effect how my plants absorb nutreints. thanks

peace

 

[ocanabis]

Hi Bigtoke

Thanks for the info on the H2O2.
I was just reading your responce to Dadda's post reguarding supply list & I noticed you had mentioned the 1200 gph pump for 20 buckets.That brings me
my next question.I was going to use a 1200 gph pump for my 6 bucket system,would that be overkill ?I have a 750 & 500 pump as well.
Just to give you a little more detail ,My res is 25 gallons.The plumbing starts with 3/4" pipe to the pump than into 1&1/2" pipe for a total of 7 running feet with 3/4" lines to the pails.
If I put 10 gal nutes in the rez then I get a 12' water fall from the highest point on the pipe.If I have 15 gals in the rez then I have a 10" water fall. Here's a few detailed pics for your review.If you could look them over & let me know if I've missed anything that would be cool.I also have the water lines and float switch,but its not connected yet.
I look forward to your earlist responce.











Later
Ocanabis

 

[BigToke]

Haya ocanabis,

Pictures are always the best way for me to evaluate a Bio-Grow op, now lets look these Q’s and pic’s over and see what I come up with:

• >>I was going to use a 1200 gph pump for my 6 bucket system,would that be overkill?<< ~ yea that’s an overkill alright!! According to my calculations for a six Bio-Buckets setup you pump size would only need to be 240,GPH ~ is would give you an exchange rate of 8 times an hour and that is all that’s needed for six buckets. If I were you I would use the 500,GPH pump that you already have.
• >> My res is 25 gallons<< ~ the reservoir is an over kill but that’s no biggie, its always best to have more than not enough. If I were you , I would put 15 gallons in the reservoir with a 10” drop.

Let me point out some thing about this pic’s…………..

well let me start off by saying that I love the fine job that you’ve done on your Bio-System this baby is going to grow some very nice buds!!! I love how you’ve run your buckets supply lines on the inside instead of on the outside, this gives you more room in the grow/room……very nice thinking bro!! also I see that you have some fans in the top of your reservoir and again very nice, your on your way to success that’s for sure!! Ok, now that the pates on the back is over let me point out a few things ok.

With only six buckets you can get by with only a 8” drop back into the reservoir; it looks like to me that you may need to saw off about an inch or so from your supply elbow that goes into your buckets or otherwise you will have considerable drain-back!! Here is the pic that I’m talking about………your supply elbow is to long, it looks like it goes down past your drain and it needs to be about it



I think we may have had a misunderstanding about what size of main-supply line to use from the pump; your supposed to use what every the size of your pumps outlet is…………so this is an overkill, but I would try it anyways seeing that you already have it made this way.

 

[brooklyn]

well i guess i dont have an exchange rate but a circulation rate. i know that our systems are diffrent but you know alot about water circulation, mantaining dissolved O2 levels and how the roots absorb nutreints and water the best so im asking your opinion if positoning my pump inside my reservoir diffrently like i mentioned in my last post will effect how my plants absorb nutreints. thanks
peace

peace senseless, i have my powerheads submerged about 1inch beneath the surface in my nonrecirculating tubs, pointing just beneath the rootball, i even have an airpump into the venturi so it spits out mad bubbles, if u keep ur res cool and comfy u should be ok!

 

[senseless]

thanks for the help brooklyn

 

[ocanabis]

Hi Bigtoke
1st off I'd like to thank for responding and the pat on the back.I've studied your how to thread (I thought) very carfully.I will make the change to the elbow as you've mentioned.

[WRAP="WRAP"] I was going to use a 1200 gph pump for my 6 bucket system,would that be overkill?<< ~ yea that’s an overkill alright!! According to my calculations for a six Bio-Buckets setup you pump size would only need to be 240,GPH ~ is would give you an exchange rate of 8 times an hour and that is all that’s needed for six buckets. If I were you I would use the 500,GPH pump that you already have.[/WRAP]

Just out of curiosity.I ran a test on the 750 and the 1200 pumps to see how long it took to fill the buckets and what I found was this.When I ran the 700 gph pump it took 7 minutes to fill the pails.When I ran the 1200 gph pump it took 5 minutes to fill the pails.According to this,my exchange rate would be 12 times pr hr based on the 1200 pump and 9 times pr hr on the 750 pump.
Would this not be my exchange rate.Please correct me if I'm wrong.




I think we may have had a misunderstanding about what size of main-supply line to use from the pump; your supposed to use what every the size of your pumps outlet is…………so this is an overkill, but I would try it anyways seeing that you already have it made this way.

Supply Line – From Reservoir!!
Main Supply Line – the main supply line of my system consist of 1” ½ pvc pip, which then braches off with a ¾ water hose to each bucket, the size of your supply line may very depending upon the size of your grow.
photo

This above supply line- from reservoir is from your thread ,so I was following your design to the T thats why I used the 1.5" OD & 1.25" ID pipes.In fact I just checked your thread to verify that cause I thought I did screwed up
Also my thoughts on this is by having a larger feed line before it flows to the 3/4" lines would help reduce friction thus (hopefully)reduce water temps.
I have one last question for you.By chance do you use a water chiller ?
One of the reasons for me trying out this Bio System is because you had mentioned the roots are not as susseptable to root rot due to warmer water temps because of the B & B's.Warm water temps have always a problem durring my summer months here.Usually durring the summer my water temps will run from anwer to 72-76 degrees and I have tried numerous approaches and techniuqs to reducing room & water temps etcetera.
I've made a couple of changes to my grow room,such as adding a Cool Tube and better exaust to pull the heat out from the lamp to reduce room temps.This has helped bring down room temps by 2-4 degrees, but I'm still debating a Chiller.So far I've tried an Ice Probe Water Chiller(this has worked the best) but I'm not sure how or if the B&B's will act or respond to it.I also tried : this outher Chiller( can't remember the name of it) but I think this one was under rated for pulling down the temps.I've debated putting in my Ice Probes in this rez,what do you think ?Should I use them or buy a better Chiller ?
Sorry if I'm rambling on I'm just trying to make sure I make the right desissions,if ya know what I mean.I value your input,so again thanks for your promt responces.
Later
Ocanabis

 

[BigToke]

……….yes, yes, you are correct!! It would seem that I was not explaining myself good enough but I was just telling you/everyone (general) what size of pump line (main supply line) that I used, it was not supposed to be something written in stone; I will be making adjustments to that very soon as so this does not happen again……….this is one of the reasons way that I say that if people have any questions just ask…….do the reading and then ask!! We all make mistakes bro……lol

it looks as though you installed the ball-valves so it shouldn’t be that much of a trouble to adjust to get the correct flow rate that’s needed…………...the Beneficial Bacterium do not decrees the temps of your water but rather make it more hospitable for your plants to live in, let me explain: the (B.B) helps with temps in two ways…..

1. ……they eat the dead root shavings that shed off of your roots as they grow; if these root shavings were left unattended they what set up root rot, but because of the large colonies of (B.B) they feed off of them thus reducing or eliminating root rot; this is just one of the reasons that in most hydro-systems that folks need to exchange/flush there system!! By eliminating this your system can run longer and at warmer temp then most hydro-systems, because if you remove all or almost all of the impurities out of your hydro-system there is nothing left there to set up root rot, right!! Thus allowing you to run at a higher temp…..but don’t over do it there is a limit as to how much heat that the (B.B) can take (82 degrees).
2. ………the rapped water flow and the exchange rate of each bucket has been carefully calculated for each size of Bio-System (this is another reason that grows how are thinking about doing a Bio-Grow should consult a professional/specialist first!! There are two main reasons to have the correct water flow and bucket exchange rates
   • ……If the exchange rates are to high it will over flow the 1” ¼ couplings and this is not a good thing!! The water level in each Bio-Buckets will automatically rise as your plants get larger (there is nothing you can do about that!!) except do the right calculations first!! If a grower wishes to grow trees in the Bio-Buckets that’s not a problem but you need to redo the calculations………were as your would use the 1” ¼ coupling but now you need to use a 2” coupling and there are also other things as well…………these hydro-system are somewhat expensive that’s way that I’m here to help with any questions that a grower mite have………..just do the reading and then ask!!
   • ………..another reason is the stronger currants will cases the roots to push themselves upwards and will clog up your buckets and this is not a good things, not with this kind of exchange rates going on, you can flood a place very quickly
3. ………….yes I do have a chiller but most of the time don’t have to use it, my chiller is equipped with a thermostat and is a hot/cold chiller so I use it your around……….I set the chiller to around 78 to 80 to kick on and to maintain those temps so I don’t have to worry with it………so if I’m going to work or vacation I don’t have to worry with it………

again sorry about the mix-up, but I think what you have will work just fine…………….sooooo ramble all you like, yes it is true that I give more support to those how show me that there serious about there grow and will show me pic’s of it……………my answerers are as equally serious as there poster questions………show me what you’ve got and I will tell you how to do it…..lol

 

[2buds]

Hey BigToke,
I can't obtain the 12" drop on the return drain line into the res for aeration,(not enough ceiling height) would an open line from the feed line running into the res take care of aerating the water? Kinda like a statue pissing in the res all the time keeping it churning. The res would be outside the room with the buckets. Man I like the buckets, just can't figure out how to make them work in my space but where there's a will there's a way.
Thanks BT.

 

[ocanabis]

Howdy Bigtoke

There's no need to apologize for misunderstandings,besides,like my dad always told me" the only people that don't make mistakes are the people that don't do anything" lol.Yes you are explaining properly,I'm the one asking the questions to ensure that I understand what you're saying correctly.
So I think I've got most of the info I need for now.I will be posting a grow journal with this system when I finnish my current grow.I'll give you dingle
when this happens.Again,thanks for all your help.I'll keep you posted.
Later
Ocanabis