Big Clones.....and air layers.....

[Budley Doright]

species difficult to root should be “wounded” as this helps encourage rooting. This involves making an additional light cut on either side of the cut stem at the base to expose more of the cambium.

I havent explained why I use this technique.... rather than peeling the end like a carrot......

I find you get more stem rot with too much of the stem scraped.....

and the cuttings more stable....

Im sure that many have also heard of the 45 degree angle cut....... that cut is also intended to increase exposed cambium........

I dont do that with this technique.... because I do the scarification on opposite sides of the stem instead.....

 

[Mate Dave]

I have done layers in the past using Rockwool 1" cubes wrapped in grafting cellophane. They took about 3 weeks to show roots inside the cellophane on 24hours photoperiod under 110W PL lamp. With constant environmental conditions. I have seen Sphagnum moss work with twine to bind the layers.. It's a great method for species that DON'T have successful strike rate in a nursery environment.

A simple slit and opening the wound or pinching the stem and twisting it to encourage callus is also useful. Exposing too much cambium is detrimental to the turgidity of the 'scion' for lack of a better term... They don't work successfully. "Wounding" as DoRight says is optional and open to interpretation. I don't need to wound them it just keeps them shorter and stockier and also. "The hormones necessary for repair promotes rooting so ........ Take it or leave it"..

I will say this if you get a rock wool cube and soak it in superthrive then cut it lengthways and encase a unwounded 'stem rooting variety' inside. Seal it with grafters cellophane and wax.. It will do it anyway untouched as that's what they do.

 

[Budley Doright]

"The hormones necessary for repair promotes rooting so ........ Take it or leave it"..

What happens is...... wounding causes the plant to create callus tissue.....

In micropropagation depending on how you treat callus tissue it can eithe become shoots or roots.....

IOW the callus is undifferentiated cells....like stem cells......

Thats the theory behind wounding....

Since we are providing an environment suitable for rooting thats what it does.....

I can certainly say.... there is plenty of callus on these stems.....

 

[Betterhaff]

When I air layer I cut thru the stem about a 1/3 to 1/2 way making 2 cuts to make a notch. I then insert something to keep it propped open. This helps to expose the cambium layer but also keeps food and water flowing to the branch above the cut.

I agree with stoned trout about burying nodes with clones. Any scraping should be done below and on the opposite side of the node. Roots can also form from the meristem tissues at the node junction.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I scrapped it right down to the center all the way around. The cambian or how ever it is spelled is gone for a inch around. There is nothing coming from the roots to the branch past that point. I just used my thumb nail. Not to sterile but the cloning liquid smells like it has alcohol in it.

 

[Betterhaff]

Do you ever find any stress or deficiencies above the girdle? I always leave some of the outer stem intact as it allows food to travel up the phloem. I guess it’s just a matter of different techniques and the bottom line is whatever works the best for you.

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I have not ever done this before. But the top has not wilted at all since I did this. I will check the RH later but assume it is between 50 and 60%.

 

[Budley Doright]

Do you ever find any stress or deficiencies above the girdle? I always leave some of the outer stem intact as it allows food to travel up the phloem. I guess it’s just a matter of different techniques and the bottom line is whatever works the best for you.

Ive done quite a bit of airlayering.... but not so much with cannabis....

In general with other plants the instruction include removing an area all the way around the stem....

Thats the reason Im doing it that way.....


stress or defs..... I didnt notice any....

 

[Budley Doright]

I scrapped it right down to the center all the way around. The cambian or how ever it is spelled is gone for a inch around. There is nothing coming from the roots to the branch past that point. I just used my thumb nail. Not to sterile but the cloning liquid smells like it has alcohol in it.

My understanding is this....

the two layers the white central tissue from roots to the leaves....

the green layer....goes from leaves to roots......

when you break that green cambium......

the roots continue to feed and water the clone.....(no defs)

not just water...but food and water.....

and the food created from the leaves...backs up around the cut.....normally is sent thru the green layer...the cambium......to the roots....

 

[Budley Doright]

For those following.....

see post 54....

I had used that plant for my original experiment....I took 7 branches and they all rooted....


The branch in the picture was the untouched nurse branch....

However now I also airlayered that last branch


It could die...... the roots of this plant no longer have food coming down the cambium....on its last branch.......

it may die....... I expect It might actually......but its truly an experiment on the basic science of air layering.....

Ive got some moms cooking....and they should be ready for some work....shortly after this experiment in 54 concludes....

If anyone has an opinion if this limb will die love to hear it.....

Im giving it 50\50 it will die in the 21 days of the experiment.....

 

[Budley Doright]

I have not ever done this before. But the top has not wilted at all since I did this. I will check the RH later but assume it is between 50 and 60%.

My sense of your comment is ....you are surprised how good they look.....???

Well now my friend......lets eliminated all the bullshit with the bottle and and just cover with dirt

easy-peezy.....

My mothers.... plants in 5 gallons..... the growth has been pinned just over the surface.....

the branches will be trained and pinned until the branches hit the rim......

then allowed them to grow upward..... its largely the same training I use for filling a screen.....just more anal about not letting them grow upwards initially.....

once I have branches pinned to the surface to the edges in several directions....and are now growing upward......I strip all the stuff in the middle and allow the outer branches to grow..... this is when I transplant and airlayer directly into promix......

I dont see any magical difference in the medium used in an airlayer...and what it gets when you simply top off your container....

My 5 gallon buckets will begin training with 4 gallons or so......

when the branches start growing up..... I plan to do airlayers....then simply put the last gallon of promix in the 5 gallon bucket....
covering the wounds and clonex.....

 

[Ichabod Crane]

No not surprised. Just responding to the poster above. It is like cloning in that if the humidity is high enough it should not wilt.

And I checked the RH in the room with the air layered plant and it is 52 to 53% RH. I usually run that or above in my rooms so I would not expect it to wilt. Sometimes it runs as high as 80% but mostly 60 to 65%.

My temp is running about 82 degrees right now. So with the high RH and temp it should root well enough.

With the way the police around here are I would rather not have it in a pot. They may claim it as a plant against my numbers. I kid you not they are idiots. They raided some dispensories around here in May because they were selling to cheap. Seems people were buying at the dispensory and selling on the street for more. Is that not retarded or what?

 

[Budley Doright]

I get it.....this is the reason I want to not do air layering..... with these funny root filled things.....

to 'stealth layering' in a transplant.....

I think the law is clear ..... so you win in court..... but that may not end up being a win-win.....

 

[Ichabod Crane]

No I will only get a partial win. They will take all my gear and say it was guilty. Total bullshit really. I can get it back if I am not convicted but must pay all the legal fees. But I stay out of jail if my numbers are right. This is what happened to the dispensories. Those who followed the law lost their gear and money but did not end up in jail.

I lost about 1300 in product during the raid. But in June I clear almost 20k. So screw them took the money and spent 4k on dental work. And still out better afterwards than before. Seems most of the other growers were real jerks to the dispensory owners and they are not selling there anymore.

The real criminals were the cops who left many without their meds and no way to get them short of driving several hours. Last time I was in there a guy came in with a walker and braces from his waist to his feet. Try to tell that guy he had to make a 5 hour round trip to get something for his pain. Fing jerks.

 

[Budley Doright]

IC.... I think there are 3 potential ways I might use a layering mom...

1. pretty much the standard air layering mom....taking a clone layer now and then and pruning her....

2. what I call a disposable mom....... layering all her branches ....retaining the best clones.....and disposing the mom and extra clones....


3. this is more than likely the way Im going to do this...... perpetual style....


Since I train my plants outward to the rim of their container anyway......about three weeks before they go into flower a couple branches are cut for layering....

and then all the other branches are buried as well.....

when 3 weeks have passed..... you extricate your clone...... and let the plant go for flowering....with the clone taking the moms place......

If you dont need the second layer clone...just leave it..... this mom plant now has 2 root zones........

Your 'mother' plants wont look any different.......

I call it stealth layering.....

In my next experiment.... we will find out if that concept works.....

This way you are not actually keeping any 'moms' and you have no 'clones'


you have a small well rooted vegging plant thats ready to rock......

I expect to shorten my veg cycle by 2 weeks.....


Imagine you are reading this questionaire.... yes or no...... if you could veg your plants 2 weeks less....and get exactly the same results.....


Yes....or NO????? Would you do it


lol

Thats the goal at any rate....

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I just want a greater variety. Air layering will allow me to have a clone that does not count for my numbers. That way I dont have to keep a sub par clone. just use the best ones and the weaker ones dont count for my numbers then.

 

[neongreen]

Good thread BudleyDoRight.

I love to layer, mainly into the soil/ground, but I did once try a bit of air-layering which was not successful as it was quite a primitive attempt. I do hope to try it again soon, and so I'm finding your thread very helpful.

If you check out the link in my sig for my 2009 outdoor grow you'll find my layering attempts documented - it was a very successful year for me in terms of soil layering/yield. I'm confident that soil layering is a great way to increase yields when plant counts are an issue, and air layering is also a very useful technique.

Have you tried layering straight into a small container/pot? I keep trying, but it seems to take a while for the layer to root, and so far I've had more success with layering gooseberries into pots than Cannabis.

I do like to always have a node or two in the medium, weather it be clones or layers.

Hey burnt rope,

Do u know if the regular underground layering works on canabis??

Yes it definitely does See above

 

[BagAppeal]

I did try layering on a few plants in my greenhouse. I put some peat moss inside aluminum paper. Scratched the stem, put on some honey and rapped it in, like the size of a jiffy. I added some water for moisture and waited about two weeks. When I opened It was full of roots, so I cut it off and put it in a pot. For the first five days after I moved to the container, it was hanging, but it managed to get back up, and seemed to be doing fine. So it seemed to work fine with layering, if normal cloning is not an option for some reason..

All the best

BagAppeal

 

[Budley Doright]

Neon.... see pic 3 in post 54..... im rooting into a cut up 2 liter....

bag appeal.... I had the same sort of experience.....

to fight the tendency to wilt Im using a larger volume of medium and are planning a week longer .......

my tests were 2 weeks ....with giving more space Im planning 3.......

When Im doing any of this stuff I use a plastic grocery bag...... to keep transpiration down.....

then however long it takes.......

Letting a plant wilt will increase the time it takes to recover....IMO

 

[Budley Doright]

It looks like that plant in post 54 is a success.......


Here are my original comments on this experiment..

Everything worked as expected ....better actually .......

even though I harvested the airlayers early ....even those without roots ....eventually did root..... another experiment....

This new experiment will start from my pretty dismal looking used up mom....with one nurse branch......

What I plan to do with this plant.... is remove the old stem....leaving just the nurse branch.....

then down pot to reduce its footprint from 5 to less than 1 gallon......(its taking space under my gavita)

I will only use about 3/4 of a gallon because I plan to airlayer the last remaining branch...

That tells me danger danger danger....due to the fact I have effectively cut all leaves from the roots.....

I think this would kill the plant eventually .....but I suspect it will root before it will die....

the second part....is to not use all the bullshit I use with the rapid rooters...the plastic wrap...twist ties..... and just bury the airlayer...... and let it do its thing in constantly moist soil....... care to be taken to make sure it never dries out.....

So Ive got 2 little things going...

1... can you take all the branches or must you need a nurse branch.....

2... doing an air layer then simply burying it......
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WHen I posted it..... I also stated the plant may die.....

The early returns are .....the plant is going to die......

Funny a dieing plant ...considered a success????

One can never be 100% sure when you are only doing an experiment one time....

I did down pot the plant....but the amount of veg matches the root ball.....

I should have in retrospect.... allowed the plant a week to recover from down potting....



What I think this shows....is dont work all your branches.....

always leave a nurse branch that has not been cut...


https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=250775

In this thread I could not tell if he ever actually got to the point where he was airlayering his last branch.....

Even if it does die...and I sort of suspected it might......its still not quite proof....

I may revisit this issue later....but have no plans atm to repeat the experiment....

and yes it needs repeating....

Its on my todo list.....