Big Clones.....and air layers.....

[Dblbogey]

Oogly

After over a hundred attempts to clone my 20 yr old seeded Sativa (100%) plants last year and this, and failing to get even one to root, I too have come to the conclusion that Air layering is the next attempt with this very difficult pheno to get it to root as a cutting.

I only tried one air layered branch last year but it at least produced some roots and I likely cut it too early as it did not do well at all.

How has your air layering worked thru this month?

I am going to purposely pick for cuttings, the tops of branches that have several nodes 2 to 3" apart mainly to get at least 3-4 nodes to give me the best chance of springing some rootlets, and then use a rooting hormone, media drenched in watered down seaweed liquid. Rockwool is my first choice, then Rapid rooters, with Shagnum my least favorite.

With 2" square by 3" long R/wool, soaked in seaweed liquid diluted in water, once I have encircled the branch nodes, I can use the "Press n Seal" plastic wrap which has a sticky backing that once wrapped around itself is nearly air tight. No need for cable ties or other fasteners, very quick and hassle free. I should be able to see roots thru it, tho it's not as clear as the "Stretch-Tite" clear plastic wrap.

Any suggestions welcome, as well as an update on your efforts, pics if you have them.

"Conspiracy is not a Theory; it's a Felony".

 

[Dblbogey]

Best Wrap for Air Layering?

Best Wrap for Air Layering?

"Glad Press n' Seal".

Instead of plastic bottles, Aluminum Foil or other final wraps, I use the Press 'n Seal.

Cut to the right size, and wrapped around itself 2X, provides all the benefits of other tightening methods and makes it happen lickety split when resealing.

I have been able to check for rootlets several times over the last two weeks, as well as add a bit more water if the medium is too dry, and quickly re-seal.

Rockwool, Rapid rooters, and Sphagnum Peat moss are the three that I am testing on my Girl Scout Cookies pre-flowering Fem plant.

Rockwool gave me the only roots last year. I used the aluminum foil in that attempt. I didn't like the seal it provided and the way Reynolds has cheapened even the heavy duty foil, it tears so easily I had to find another way, and Press n Seal seems to be perfect.

 

[Drop That Sound]

I am about to take some big air cuts off a large plant, going to try wrapping 3 root riot cubes around the thickest stalks. Will probably go straight into a 3.75" net cup with some grow stones and into DWC buckets with the biggest clones.

I've even thought about sealing the stems off in a light proofed styrofoam cup and adding mini air stones, and attemping a hydroponic air layer, anyone else attempt such a thing?

Here's a link to my thread https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=334608 if anyone is interested. First timer doing this and was looking for some answers as well as posting results!

 

[Big CLones]

Im the person who started this thread..... I have in fact discontinued the use of air layers even though my methods were very successful....

I also have a cloning thread which has tons of reads...... my contribution to cloning is that clones do best when they are in optimal temps....

Im not using air layers because in michigan the changes in the law indicate that air layers now fall under the legal definition of a plant in the medical marijuana program..... even if it contradicts what previous courts have found....

Generally a cutting becomes a clone when it has roots.... to satisfy what a plant is ....2 things must occur.... it must have roots and it must be cut from the plant....

Air layering failed because it hadnt been cut from the plant....

I would like to say that like cloning air layering is most successful from about 80 to 85 degrees...... to have great success you must also ring the limb you are air layering....

before the law change I was batting almost 100% with my air layers....... they were however more irregular in how long they took to root..... taking 3 or 4 and sometimes as long a 5 weeks......

So if your state hasnt made changes which impact the legality of air layers..... great ..... go for it..... however since Im in michigan they no longer make sense in my grow.....

By the way.... the new law in michigan considers a cutting a plant as soon as the cutting is put in medium...

Yall be careful out there .....ya hear?????

 

[Drop That Sound]

Big C my man, i'm possibly going to attempt a new experiment in the near future. Mwahahaha!

Instead of air layering multiple large branches, I am going to air layer just one large branch. The rest of the branches that I would have air layer as well, will instead be cut and grafted onto the large air layered branch.

That's right, i'm going to attempt to graft 10 branches onto an air layered branch while it roots and grafts, at the same time!

This attempt would be great for someone like me that likes to flower out large bushy plants.

Turn one air layer into a super clone with 10 other branches attached before you even cut it, so it doesn't take 3-5 months to veg one out the same size!!

Now, I could just graft the branches to the large branch first, and then air layer it, but that would take twice the amount of time. I could also air layer the branch, root it, and then graft the donor branches onto the new plant, but would also take twice the amount of time. Why not do both at once? Anyone? Right, i'm sure its never been documented here. Maybe on a fruit tree, maaaaybe.

Lets see them try to consider a live plant a medium, F%$@ you laws! Including the law of the cannabis plant's nature that might not let it work out, we'll see though!

 

[Big CLones]

Let me caution you just a bit....

Ive done lots of grafting..... fruit trees and such....

They are done when the plants are largely dormant....

With live plants its much more difficult....

Just sayin....

 

[Budley Doright]

Hello world.... I'm back.....

well where have I been???
I ve been in Hell..... I got busted some time ago long story...got probation...

and yesterday was the last day of probation....

I mulled over starting a new thread or use this one on a more grow diary than a how to...

I like this thread and loved air layers...... you will get more of that hereafter.....

So I'm staking my claim and will be documenting a new grow style.... something like bowl style scrog.....

Will it succeed or will it fail????

This one will take some time to get rolling but I think you all will find this interesting....


I'm going to do some air layering.... my fabulous cloner.... made from an aquarium...

I'm out from under my rock....so now I plan to get growing again....

Now that they busted me..... They know where I'm at....

my job is to keep the grow 100% legal....

I think it will be an interesting read so stay tuned....

Note to me..... get your camera working with the new computer......

 

[Budley Doright]

Hardware....not much fancy..... promix..... gavita 1000 k...jacks and calcium nitrate...

the gavita will cover a 5 by 5 room.....

the plants will be grown at a 45 degree then up the wall creating a bowl.....

So this method will be part horizontal and vertical up the walls.....

 

[Budley Doright]

I do wish to be true to the thread.... here is how I plan on using air layering...

my grow is symmetrical..... 10 weeks veg.....10 weeks or less flower....

I plan to grow the plants at a 45 degree angle.... so some branches will be under the main stem...I can choose one to airlayer..... one per plant.... If I get 100% success on the air layers then ....in theory I don't need clones.....

I'm curious how close I can get to one air layer for one plant..... a one to one replacement.... to be usable.... I need a high number of rooted air layers....

the legals.... I have 20 veg plants....20 flower.... the air layers are counted as plants....

I will need 10 air layers to replace the ones going into flower....

An air layer may take up to 5 weeks at 2 per week..... which is equal to 10 plants of plant count....

I can legally have up to 72 plants..... 12 plants each for 5 patients and myself....

My grow will have 20 veg 20 flower and 10 airlayers.... 50 plants not 72.....

If they don't root.... I can use normal clones someone else starts.....

If all the airlayers root....then I need no clones....

If half the air layers root then half of my plants will be clones the other half air layers....

 

[Drop That Sound]

Welcome back, sounds like a cool plan!

I'm currently back at it now too.. air layering an old large 1 yo DWC mom again (she's an air layer from my last mom), except this time I do not plan to flower it afterwords, whats left will probably be tossed or give to a friend to take cuts. She will be replaced by the mightiest of clones she produces.

I have just layered around 60-70% of the plant, just the other night! Figured I would leave some of the main tops, and the suckers, etc, in the case that layering the whole plant could possibly kill it? I suppose I could have gone 90% but I don't need that much for my setup.

I am testing out grodan rock wool starter plugs on this batch, going for 3 different sizes of clones. Large, Extra Large, and XXL. Notice I didn't say S or M, because with air layering why even bother lol. Nothing to crazy (XXXL!), because last time I did that they blew up huge and got out of hand quick!

Of course on some of the larger clones I doubled up on the rock wool. They do suck more water later when they start rooting. I did not soak them, just injected aired out tap water (35ppm) in after wrapping with plastic food wrap. I will start PHing the water as I go, I don't think its a big deal for now.

Each cube held about 25ml of water, unlike root riot/rapid rooters which I remember being half that. That may be a good or a bad thing, hopefully less injections when the time comes. The next week or 2 should tell!

Straight into 3.75" net cups and into AERO\DWC tubs they will go, with a plastic sack to cover each clone, until the roots can manage. Doesn't take to long in dwc, I will rig up a temp spray bar and test some LP aero action on a few of the totes this round, perhaps that will supercharge them!



I like the vertical idea, and hopefully you hit 100%!

-Drop

 

[Budley Doright]

Drop that sound.... if you air layer all the branches ....the plant will die.....I tried it.... I was amazed how effective that strategy was in killing a plant...... surprised....but amazed....

Mostly what this thread will be about.....is how I run a legal caregiver grow in Michigan......

Since the grow will be legal I have no problem with documenting it to help others navigate the laws in this state and others....

In Michigan any patient can elect to not have a caregiver..... they can take their 12 plants and do their thing...

I have a person who is not interested in having a whole system who will be running any clones I need....

When and if I need clones I get them from him....... that will reduce my plant count..... we have a deal to get that done...

He has a clone cabinet and 12 plants..... I supply the cloning know how..... even if I wasn't planning to do air layers this system would work...

By doing this.... I go from a system with 20 veg....20 flower and 12 clones.... 52 total plants... to only 20 veg and 20 flower....40 plants....

By the way.... biology doesn't matter.... In my state plants needed to have roots to be counted as a plant.... now as soon as you cut the clone and are intending to make roots its a plant....

Your mileage may vary in other states.....

This also applies to air layers....once you make the air layer....that's now a plant against your plant count....

 

[Mikell]

Legalization is a crop of shit, isn't it?

Same baloney up here.

 

[Budley Doright]

Legalization is a crop of shit, isn't it?

Same baloney up here.

I hear you...... so what I don't get... is why the system seems to be more about money than law enforcement....

I have a new perspective on how I plan to make sure I comply with the law and don't once again find myself being ground in the gears of the law.....

My feeling there is an opportunity.... but I'm going to hide my take on a legal grow....tacked on to this one about air layering...

I thought that would be ok since my intent is to place an air layer on each plant in a perpetual grow..... 2 plants in .....2 plants harvested every 7 days...

But even that isn't quite true..... ideally you harvest one plant every 3.5 days.....

You process that plant and get it the hell out of your house...

I also plan to introduce everyone to my little friend.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzlB0Dr1Jgk

The trimmer was pricey but I love mine...... I consider it an investment....

So far we have only done two plants....

How much time you save depends on how you preprocess....

What I do is to remove by hand all leaves by removing the stem...

The machine only does the final manicure.....

That's my preference....leave more medium sized leaves on....saves time

 

[Drop That Sound]

Did the cuttings still root? I honestly don't care if the plant dies this time as long as all the layers have rooted!

I bet a giant garbage bag to act as a humidity dome could have helped delay the plant dying some, but maybe not, hope I don't have to worry about that.

Maybe letting the plant die, or even stressing it sometime after layering your branches could speed up the process to some degree, or release more hormones to help the root nubs emerge faster.

Perhaps I will leave a few air layers attached, and pull some crazy experiments. Like shocking the root zone with ice, pumping it full of additives, electro-shock therapy, etc. Any suggestions?

I actually took a 2 air layers last month just to be safe. They are thriving in small cups of coco, pampered and hand fed with turtle aquarium water multiple times everyday.

Also teaching a friend and new grower, to air layer right from the start. Has no idea how easy he has it. Probably will never live to see whole trays of clones wilt lol.

 

[Budley Doright]

With the air layering I will be doing I need a long veg....I use 10 weeks in the perpetual....

I will allow 5 weeks for the air layer to root.... I'm confident with using only one air layer per plant....most of them will root..... but I'm also confident some will not....

I think it will be a fun experiment....

Mind you I have a backup clone source...... If I could achieve a near 100% success rate I would be happy.....

 

[Budley Doright]

Did the cuttings still root?
Nope the plant now has no way for the leaves to feed the roots....the plant died very quickly..... that was one of the surprises....

 

[Drop That Sound]

RIP plant..s..

 

[SierraPadre]

Damn. Used to try this for foot long clones. Only worked when I had no air exchange around the cut.