Between Sun and Moon HPS/LED comparison grow.

[hazy]

Sorry LEDGirl can't give you those numbers cause they got mixed in with others no way to get a weight.

Not sure if I can veg under them or not. I'd like to because Blaze's are rocking the veg under the leds. That guy sure gets the trolls though. I'm blown away at the difference. The LED is doing so good vegging those babies that it makes me want to.

On the weight/yield thing:
Let's look at the Sour Diesel, because they were the biggest, nicest looking plants in the grow. The HPS side made really huge buds, much bigger than normal for me. (They usually don't spend their life right under the bulb like that.) By looking at the plants, and at the pics, you'd think the 400 was going to spank the LED kinda hard, but ends up being a ten and a half gram difference. Not bad.
The hps buds of diesel are airy compared to the led.
I didn't notice the Sugar shack buds being any different in density. the c4 is closer though the led again is denser. Better too, in my opinion.

----------------

As far as the next run, I'm not sure how I want to do it. I've noticed that the led haters have gone to "but look at the size of space you could be using."

"Hazy, Blaze, you could get lots more with those 400s man, you should be trying to maximise the 400 yield so you can show how much ass the HPS really kicks, man"

Say above in a Tommy Chong kind of voice and you'll get a better effect.

To be honest, I'm not interested in that.

I can go to plenty of threads where guys are trying for maximum yield from their 400s. We all know the kind of yields we can get from a 400 already. And most of these guys don't even have plant pics in their galleraies at all.

I'd love to do a grow with equal watts of leds. that'd quiet it down.

 

[PetFlora]

To be fair- any current tech LED v HPS: the HPS should also be the best. Best light. Best Ballast. Best Hood.

I switched from 400 hps to LED because my yields were poor. Had I known that the benefit of best hood/bulb/ballast adds some 40% more light, I would not have spent the money on LEDs (bulb change not user friendly), but they do grow potent pot..

 

[JACKtheREFFER]

I would love to see a equal wattage grow ... With 400 watts of hps vs. 400 watts of led .. As hazy said that would quiet the masses

 

[osecretgardeno]

I would love to see a equal wattage grow ... With 400 watts of hps vs. 400 watts of led .. As hazy said that would quiet the masses

I whole heartily agree with that. It's unfortunate that some people can't do the math so we need hazy to show it in real life.

 

[NicholasSmokes]

It is funny to me that when the LED(girl) vs HID debate started here, the majority opinion seemed to be that it would not even be close. People said that LEDs were a joke or scam. Now, we have gotten to the point where test grows have proved that LEDs are so good that we need to be concerned that HIDs be the best of the best so that they can show well against LEDs! Seems to me that LEDs have already won.

That said, I'm all for more tests and more accurate tests. I follow all of the LED grows.

 

[LEDGirl]

Sorry LEDGirl can't give you those numbers cause they got mixed in with others no way to get a weight.

No Problem, just thought I'd ask

I can go to plenty of threads where guys are trying for maximum yield from their 400s. We all know the kind of yields we can get from a 400 already. And most of these guys don't even have plant pics in their galleraies at all.

Most of the 1 gram per watt guys (or so claimed) don't produce pictures that I've seen to show it. If they do produce pictures, they certainly don't put their light on a power meter to figure out their gram per watt calculations either, but that's what we do with LED

I'd love to do a grow with equal watts of leds. that'd quiet it down.

Request Granted! We've been wanting to do a watt for watt test for quite some time, and I think there is no time better than the present. Now that we've shown the efficiency of our product, I think it would be an excellent idea to show the HID guys what watt for watt actually means.

Here's all I need to make this happen (and yes lights will be donated to Hazy for the test): A power reading of your current 400W HPS so I can match the actual draw of our LED's as closely to that # as possible. Needless to say it's not going to be a 400W HPS bulb vs (400) 1W LED's, it's going to be watt against watt. So if your HPS draws around 517W like my MH did, that means you'd be using (2) 205W panels and a 126W panel (which would still use less watts). If the draw is even higher, you may end up using (3) 205W Panels for the grow. Either way your coverage area will certainly be increasing, so you can definitely use that 400W HPS in as large an area as you like

 

[Che]

Sweet! Loving the developments around here, watt for watt is going to be badass!!

 

[Tropik]

this is definately going to contribute to the information about comparison grows with LED,

hope for the best!

 

[catman]

I don't think we need a further experiment to prove that at the same wattage of power draw, the LEDs will out yield the HPS, but can they do so in the same foot print that is optimal for a 400w?

For hazy to even fit a second 205ws (not to mention another 126) he will have to angle them in there like /\ if there is only going to be one level. We all know that won't amount to double the yield and it'll require some tricky training to keep plants within optimal distance of the LEDs. Perhaps it would still out yield the 400w, but I don't think it would be the best way to make use of that space.

The HPS has one advantage that can not be refuted. It penetrates deeper, but all the air that is needed between the bulb and the plants is wasted space. If I had two 205w units in that space I would consider learning to grow shorter plants so I could have two layers each with their own canopy or run the units vertically centered in the middle pointing away from each other if growing plants that stretch too much. The question still would be could you run two layers with the 400w and you could depending on the ventilation, but ventilation is one of the biggest bottlenecks to most grows besides next to three dimensional space.

If the LED is going to ever replace HIDs for larger scale grows the grow style people us is going to have to change.

 

[PetFlora]

Real World Test

Real World Test

Reflecting (no pun intended) back on my almost completed journal (CFL v UFO 90), and learning a ton about lighting since beginning it, I realize it is not a "real world" test.

I admit for many of you, your interest is not so much about 'max yield', or even highest quality, it's about space and stealth. But wouldn't it be nice to have a "real world" test?

From what I gather reading the lighting threads, the reason light knowledgeable growers say you need a minimum of 600 watts is because it outputs 90K lumens (almost double a 400), AND, that a 600 is the minimum needed to get a good balanced light spectrum, assuming the ballast is NextGen quality, and a hood comparable to a SunSystemII.

Now which current LED compares to this and we have ourselves a real world test.

 

[WizeWizo]

Request Granted! We've been wanting to do a watt for watt test for quite some time, and I think there is no time better than the present. Now that we've shown the efficiency of our product, I think it would be an excellent idea to show the HID guys what watt for watt actually means.

Here's all I need to make this happen (and yes lights will be donated to Hazy for the test): A power reading of your current 400W HPS so I can match the actual draw of our LED's as closely to that # as possible. Needless to say it's not going to be a 400W HPS bulb vs (400) 1W LED's, it's going to be watt against watt. So if your HPS draws around 517W like my MH did, that means you'd be using (2) 205W panels and a 126W panel (which would still use less watts). If the draw is even higher, you may end up using (3) 205W Panels for the grow. Either way your coverage area will certainly be increasing, so you can definitely use that 400W HPS in as large an area as you like

Damn, Lucky you!

Wanna throw me a few more panels and I'll go against my 600w hps tent, hehe.

 

[one Q]

good job LEDGirl! this will smash all the nay sayers' teeth in.

 

[easyrasta]

The only problem i see is that the leds cost soooooooo dam much to start off with.
the entry price is prohibitive
peace
Ez

 

[grow2bfree]

Request Granted! We've been wanting to do a watt for watt test for quite some time, and I think there is no time better than the present. Now that we've shown the efficiency of our product, I think it would be an excellent idea to show the HID guys what watt for watt actually means.

Here's all I need to make this happen (and yes lights will be donated to Hazy for the test): A power reading of your current 400W HPS so I can match the actual draw of our LED's as closely to that # as possible. Needless to say it's not going to be a 400W HPS bulb vs (400) 1W LED's, it's going to be watt against watt. So if your HPS draws around 517W like my MH did, that means you'd be using (2) 205W panels and a 126W panel (which would still use less watts). If the draw is even higher, you may end up using (3) 205W Panels for the grow. Either way your coverage area will certainly be increasing, so you can definitely use that 400W HPS in as large an area as you like

Awesome, can't wait to see this.

Peace

 

[Bud Bug]

this is true, the coverage a 400w has can not be had by the current LEDgirls lighs. BUT...
HOW MANY SMALL GROWERS STUFF THEIR AREAS WITH HID LIGHTS?
I see some DR60s with 400s in them, If they replaced the 400 with LED205 they, according to this thread, could get damn near what they get with the 400s with 1/2 the watts and smaller fans and all that jazz. Ppl over do lights all the time and not MAX out the hid foot print.

Hazy; good to note that the LEDs give you *higher* results.

Don't be fooled by the "no heat" give off by the LED's. I ran a 300W LED for test in a DR 60 and if the 4" vortex was turned off the tent would hit 90+ pretty fast. There was still a 300W power supply running the led lights.

 

[hazy]

YeeHa!! This is gonna be fun!
Seriously though, this is going to take some manipulating of my available space. As mentioned above, can't have this-/\.
I have a 5x5 space that is chock full right now almost a week in from a 4-20 flip. I could build a wall across the 5x5 space and make another 'room.' A week ago I could have anyway. Hate to have to wait 7+ more weeks, so I eyeing my veg area. Obviously, there's the ok now where do I veg thing. Hmmm.
Veg under the lights and keep everybody else in clone form in the nursery? Some rubbermaids under the computer desk? lol I guess I'll get it figured out.
If I use my veg area for the leds, the 400 would fill both sides used in this thread, taking out the divider of course. LEDs would be directly above. Same size space. 5' x 28"
I could fit 3 led lights in there. they are 18.5 inches on each side. However, I figure 2, because I thought that I have read many times that 400s pull about 430 watts. Of course what mine pulls will be known any day. I'll be getting one of those meters and posting up a pic of the display. Just for fun I'll plug the 1K into it and see what that baby uses too.

I'm totally stoked about this whole thing and the possibilities. Makes me wonder about what it'd be like to have what, 5 or 6 of these hanging in the 5x5 room instead of the 1K. If I had been able to build the room with leds in mind, i would not have had to cut 2 holes throught the ceiling and then through the side of the house to exhaust the hot air. I would not have had to remote my ballasts outside of my house. Huge pita. Hot mofos, they'd heat up my office when they were in here, and still the heat would go into the grow. Now they'r outside in an enclosure I had to build for them, not to mention holes drilled for wires and having to unwire things and run cords through, blah blah blah. I could have just vented right back into my office, and the AC cooled air in my office would get sucked in through the room intake and come back to me filtered and not hot.

off rant.

Back to planning.

 

[unclefishstick]

YeeHa!! This is gonna be fun!
Seriously though, this is going to take some manipulating of my available space. As mentioned above, can't have this-/\.
I have a 5x5 space that is chock full right now almost a week in from a 4-20 flip. I could build a wall across the 5x5 space and make another 'room.' A week ago I could have anyway. Hate to have to wait 7+ more weeks, so I eyeing my veg area. Obviously, there's the ok now where do I veg thing. Hmmm.
Veg under the lights and keep everybody else in clone form in the nursery? Some rubbermaids under the computer desk? lol I guess I'll get it figured out.
If I use my veg area for the leds, the 400 would fill both sides used in this thread, taking out the divider of course. LEDs would be directly above. Same size space. 5' x 28"
I could fit 3 led lights in there. they are 18.5 inches on each side. However, I figure 2, because I thought that I have read many times that 400s pull about 430 watts. Of course what mine pulls will be known any day. I'll be getting one of those meters and posting up a pic of the display. Just for fun I'll plug the 1K into it and see what that baby uses too.

I'm totally stoked about this whole thing and the possibilities. Makes me wonder about what it'd be like to have what, 5 or 6 of these hanging in the 5x5 room instead of the 1K. If I had been able to build the room with leds in mind, i would not have had to cut 2 holes throught the ceiling and then through the side of the house to exhaust the hot air. I would not have had to remote my ballasts outside of my house. Huge pita. Hot mofos, they'd heat up my office when they were in here, and still the heat would go into the grow. Now they'r outside in an enclosure I had to build for them, not to mention holes drilled for wires and having to unwire things and run cords through, blah blah blah. I could have just vented right back into my office, and the AC cooled air in my office would get sucked in through the room intake and come back to me filtered and not hot.

off rant.

Back to planning.

thats funny hazy,in my thinking about making an LED room from the start,you kinda have to toss all the old rules out and rethink your set up.many of the hassles of ventilation and heat removal just disappear with these lights,it will be interesting to see if clusters of them present any new design problems ,like cord management or the like.

 

[iSMOKE.KUSH]

Reflecting (no pun intended) back on my almost completed journal (CFL v UFO 90), and learning a ton about lighting since beginning it, I realize it is not a "real world" test.

I admit for many of you, your interest is not so much about 'max yield', or even highest quality, it's about space and stealth. But wouldn't it be nice to have a "real world" test?

From what I gather reading the lighting threads, the reason light knowledgeable growers say you need a minimum of 600 watts is because it outputs 90K lumens (almost double a 400), AND, that a 600 is the minimum needed to get a good balanced light spectrum, assuming the ballast is NextGen quality, and a hood comparable to a SunSystemII.

Now which current LED compares to this and we have ourselves a real world test.

sooo true. for micro grows...leds are the shit. if i were gonna do a closet or even a small tent grow, best believe i would go led. but i really dont see a way that i could run something like my 10,000 watt hid with leds. but believe me, if it were cost effective i would.

 

[Centrum]

WOW!!!
Just WOW!

The HPS Totally beat the led !



NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



In the end the led is using half the power. ( also less cooling wattage as well)

Imagine if you hung 2 leds and did the same watt per watt comparison! ( which even still the 400 watt hps would be using more power)

Soon i will be upgrading to 4 x126 leds per table 3.5x3.5 and comparing them to 600 watt.

If everything goes well, looks like a $25k LED upgrade for me.
( would save me about 3000 watts pr hr a day)

 

[NiteTiger]