Best thing I EVER added to my res...

[cravin morehead]

hey friend- that sounds great. i'd love to see what you come up with...
kepp goin- nice to hear of your successful grow. healthy plants the whole way through should make for some nice smoke. glad to hear it.

60/40 growing/smoking sounds about right for me too.

cm

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

hey guys, made my first filter today and am running it in one of the 5gl buckets to see how it does. ofcourse I went the DIY route like I said I would.

-12oz pepsi bottle
-filtration/fiber material
-airstone (just cause I have them to use and figured I wouldn't need to drill holes in the top of the bottle, although I did)
*dont have any actual bio-media yet though.
*have some suction cups that I am gonna try and implement as well, put them at the bottom of the bottle in order to keep is stable and right under the net pot

gonna see what I can get from petsmart tomorrow. im thinking of just dropping some GH nutes near/close to the bottom so I can see what kind of flow im getting from it, I think im gonna seriously go and find someway to take pics so I can put it up

EDIT: I was thinking about the RR plugs that I have that im not really using, could those be used as a "bio-media" of sorts?

was bumping around BigTOkes bio bucket thread and read about pumices stone, would that be a good media to use?

 

[cravin morehead]

not much time now. yes pumice would be great, however it floats. maybe just regular small lava rockks

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

not much time now. yes pumice would be great, however it floats. maybe just regular small lava rockks

awright, that sounds like a plan then, gotta find out how much those lava rocks cost and where to get them. still in the process of pricing things while buiding things at the same time

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

Q: I were to setup my fish tank, let it cycle for as long as it takes to get/ build up the beneficial bacteria using the bio media is there any way to tell how much of the "colonized bio media" to use in a 5gl DWC?

EXAMPLE: say I have a 15gl fish tank with about a "2cups"(the hypothetical) of colonized bio media in a air pump filter system. I want to add dome of that colonized bio media to my 5gl rez/DWC in order to get the "ball rolling". is there anyway to tell how much of the colonized bio media I can/should use to start things off with the 5gl DWC

OR

would I just have to use a certain amount (say about 1/2 cup) of the colonized bio media and then test to see when the nitrate and ammonia levels stop spiking after a couple of weeks of it sitting in there??

my thinking is that if the bio media is already colonized, when I put it into the new environment it should be a matter of time before it simply "cleans" the water on its own. Is that correct or is there something else I should do?

then again now that I think about it, I may be overthinking things since there will only be the plants in the buckets and all that would be getting filtered/broken down is old/dead plant debris BUT I do want to be sure before I waste time and nutes on this venture so once again, any/all help is greatly appreciated.

im going to be running my fish tank in the interim and wanted to see if I could use one to help the other

* * * * * EDIT * ** ** *

Um, yeah...read the post from the beginning!!
Any nutrient absorption is only notable for the first couple of days...I just added a touch more of the green of the GH 3 part...came right around.

Also from what others (more advanced with their understanding of fish systems) have said it is essentially the length of time the biologicals are becoming active inside the filter. This all makes sense to me. All I know is what I have observed personally.

Put the filter into action...any paleness, or nutrient absorption disappears after only a few days. Then the nutes seem stable and easy to deal with. NO negative effects that I have noticed AT ALL!!

Good Luck
KG

ok, guys, want to thank everyone for everything in this thread, after taking the advice in bold, I realized that

1. that's what I should have done in the first place

2. im rehashing topics/questions already answered.

sorry guys, my bad, I do realize how annoying that all can be. peace and thanks for toleratin' me. I did learn a whole hell of a lot though in the short time I was active in the thread. I was just so hell bent on DIYing the damned thing that I lost sight of what was already there in my face.

peace

 

[SeaMaiden]

Friend, it's no problem, we all have our own ways to learn.

As far as inoculation with nitrifyers, the best way I know to monitor what's actually happening is via the second option you outline--testing for the NH4 --> NO2 --> NO3 spikes and drops.

With specific regard to inoculation numbers, I find it helpful to think of them as being like lemmings--there are only 'enough' bacteria alive sufficient to consume available food sources. So, you can inoculate with a specific number (IF you were able to quantify in that manner) or volume of microbes, but they can only live so long in absence of food in this scenario, and will slowly die off as food is restricted, eventually limiting their numbers/population to that which can be supported by the food available (that begins as NH4 in this case, always, never ever NO3 unless you're running a denitrification filter, and that is necessarily an anaerobic, very low flow filter, must be used with great care and caution, IME).

Make sense? And if so, did it answer your question(s)?

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

Friend, it's no problem, we all have our own ways to learn.

As far as inoculation with nitrifyers, the best way I know to monitor what's actually happening is via the second option you outline--testing for the NH4 --> NO2 --> NO3 spikes and drops.

With specific regard to inoculation numbers, I find it helpful to think of them as being like lemmings--there are only 'enough' bacteria alive sufficient to consume available food sources. So, you can inoculate with a specific number (IF you were able to quantify in that manner) or volume of microbes, but they can only live so long in absence of food in this scenario, and will slowly die off as food is restricted, eventually limiting their numbers/population to that which can be supported by the food available (that begins as NH4 in this case, always, never ever NO3 unless you're running a denitrification filter, and that is necessarily an anaerobic, very low flow filter, must be used with great care and caution, IME).

Make sense? And if so, did it answer your question(s)?

definitely answers it. was wondering how the bacteria live and eat as well. i started simply reading the thread carefully and saw what you mentioned about peeing in the tanks along with some fish food and oddly enough i have both! the urine is on tap and the fish food is from when i had fish in my 15gl tank so many moons ago.

after what ive been reading on the subject of the beneficial bacteria, cycling and other aspects of aquarium science i realize now why my fish never made it too long in my tank.

the PETCO by me only has the fluval brand of bio media, and there is another local store but they were closing by the time i got to them, called the PET SHANTY. now i know those guys would be willing to give me the "seedling" water or old filters that i could use to get the ball rolling. im also sure that they would have the variety of bio media i am looking for. ive always liked having a fish tank, but with what ive learned lately, im going to get back into with more focus.

so now that you've told me what you have about the bacteria needing something to eat, what could i use to feed them on the regular to keep them active? or would they just use the plant debris?(god i wish they could just eat the plant debris/ please tell me they can eat the plant debris and be ok)

could i just pee a little in there to feed them (no, seriously, could i just add a lil urine and be ok)? come to think of it, how would i even know if they need to be fed or not? (by the spiking i presume)

at petco i saw the API beneficial bacteria liquid or tank starter . . . . you know what? its early, my son and i need to get out of the house so off to the PET SHANTY i go to further investigate/recon supplies and more information.

be back later!!!!

EDIT: nah, that place is pretty much on par with petco, no real variation in supplies either and prices are pretty much the same. didn't even think to ask about the "seeding" water or the old filters. well, petco is closer so ill head there when im ready for the bio media.

think im going to dig into my supplies and just make a DIY of those whisper 3i: 1-5gl filters that "keep goin" mentioned earlier on in the thread, that should suffice for my needs in a 5gl DWC.

i youtube searched the whisper 3i and its nothing more than an air filter BUT do you think i would be better of with or without an airstone? gonna just use the 12oz pepsi bottles that i have with a 1/2" tube out of the top, if anything it will get water up to the netpot once the levels get low. will be back with pics . . .

 

[cravin morehead]

once again SeaMaiden is on it. think of it like predator/prey in nature. predators cull the prey until a balance is found.
friend- fwiw i have had success just running my system with nutes and no plants for around a week or two. usually i start up the same day i take cuts, by the time i get roots, the BB have taken hold. glad this thread was so helpful to you. SeaMaiden is so full of knowledge, i think its incredible.
thanks to Keep Goin for starting such a good thread topic...

cm

 

[Gruetoo]

Sea Maiden is correct.
I don't think adding a fish tank culture is what your looking for.
Using Nitrates is good, but in a hydroponic system there will be different Bacterias than in a fish tank.
I very well could be wrong, but using cannism to break down dead and dieing parts will supply some food. Your Nutes will provide more food. I also think your benif fungi and bac added thru Nute and root pack will give More diverse bacterias. (Don't forget your EWC)
All in all there will be some of the same bac but the make up in your hydro sys will be much different thank in a tank. Just my 2 cents

Gruetoo

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

once again SeaMaiden is on it. think of it like predator/prey in nature. predators cull the prey until a balance is found.
friend- fwiw i have had success just running my system with nutes and no plants for around a week or two. usually i start up the same day i take cuts, by the time i get roots, the BB have taken hold. glad this thread was so helpful to you. SeaMaiden is so full of knowledge, i think its incredible.
thanks to Keep Goin for starting such a good thread topic...

cm

I figured that running the system would be worth doing in order to get the ball rolling until my seeds popped, matter of fact I was gonna run it until it was ready for plants to flower. also the reason why I have been at this thread so hard since its inception, I wanted to make sure I run it properly before I get too far into it.

I remember most of my biology and it takes time for that stuff to grow, so I figured I would get things established until the time came

Sea Maiden is correct.
I don't think adding a fish tank culture is what your looking for.
Using Nitrates is good, but in a hydroponic system there will be different Bacterias than in a fish tank.

Gruetoo

this is what my initial question was when I first started asking about the process , I just think I wasn't asking it properly. I figured the bacteria would be different and was searching for the yes/no on that

I very well could be wrong, but using cannism to break down dead and dieing parts will supply some food. Your Nutes will provide more food. I also think your benif fungi and bac added thru Nute and root pack will give More diverse bacterias. (Don't forget your EWC)

now this was also something I was pondering and was gonna call my old shop about this very topic. besides the fact I still have a good amount of organic nutes: guanos/ewc/bone&blood meal/molasses. the guy told me years ago that I could just leave a sack of the organic nutes in the container and the nutes will leach out BUT now the creating of benenficial bacteria comes into play so further investigation is needed I guess

an Idea I had was to put a table spoon or teaspoon of each nutrient in a sac with the bio media inside of my air filter along with the airstone and see what happens for about a month. figured the bio media on bottom/ airstone in the middle and nute sac on top as to be agitated by the bubbling and just let the "process" do all the work. don't know how the fiber material would fit in there or if I would even need it but I will think about it and see

All in all there will be some of the same bac but the make up in your hydro sys will be much different thank in a tank. Just my 2 cents

I was thinking along these same lines, and could be right or wrong just like you BUT the consensus is that beneficial bacteria is beneficial bacteria so now I would guess my issue is how to get it growing without relying on the fish. t'was why I was seriously asking about the urine idea . . . lol, bacteria is bacteria right?

anyway im gonna get started on this, I added the 1/2 tube to the 12oz bottle and what I have found is the pump has to be nice and powerful and your golden. ive got a 5gl bucket running now as a test. had it hooked up to an old pump and figured with this nasty ass NJ water things should start to grow within minutes and that would be the test material for the filter.

it didn't filter anything so I took the filter out, placed it into my fishtank and it went nuts! realized that the pump that I had in the bucket is quite old. so once again its all about the pump. no worries though, the pumps that I have for the actual run are brand new dual ports so I may just set up two of the buckets im talking about and see what happens after 30 days; you know run the old controlled experiment.

anyway, im on a mission ppl, bio buckets is not the only answer! if it can happen with fish in a tank, it can happen in a tank with a plant!

EDIT: off to home depot tomorrow to see what they have in the neighborhood of lava rocks

 

[Gruetoo]

I remember most of my biology and it takes time for that stuff to grow, so I figured I would get things established until the time came

Yes, most tanks have a 2 to 6 month break in period




an Idea I had was to put a table spoon or teaspoon of each nutrient in a sac with the bio media inside of my air filter along with the airstone and see what happens for about a month. figured the bio media on bottom/ airstone in the middle and nute sac on top as to be agitated by the bubbling and just let the "process" do all the work. don't know how the fiber material would fit in there or if I would even need it but I will think about it and see

That sounds good, Perhaps add Something like http://www.ebay.com/itm/23076189038...eName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 Root pack also some area for the bac to Live. Floss, Bio balls, even filter media. Once they are alive (6 to 24 hours) most will need some sort of food to thrive.


I was thinking along these same lines, and could be right or wrong just like you BUT the consensus is that beneficial bacteria is beneficial bacteria so now I would guess my issue is how to get it growing without relying on the fish. t'was why I was seriously asking about the urine idea . . . lol, bacteria is bacteria right?

Urine is Sterile, it is food not a Bac Or Fung

anyway im gonna get started on this, I added the 1/2 tube to the 12oz bottle and what I have found is the pump has to be nice and powerful and your golden. ive got a 5gl bucket running now as a test. had it hooked up to an old pump and figured with this nasty ass NJ water things should start to grow within minutes and that would be the test material for the filter.

Careful with any city water. They add stuff in it to kill any Bac, Fung. Clorine, Clormine and others to keep the water safe to drink.


anyway, im on a mission ppl, bio buckets is not the only answer! if it can happen with fish in a tank, it can happen in a tank with a plant!

I wish you the best. Use common sense and enjoy your girls

Gruetoo

 

[Asotos]

Very interesting info indeed!

I'm thinking to get the Gh Biofilter and use BM ! I was also thinking to use mosquito dunks to my res as a preventative *measure to gnats !! Do you think the dunk bennies will interact (battle) the BM ? Or there won't be a problem ?
Or is it even possible to not need the dunks at all, with a Biofilter ?

Another subject is , do you still need the periodical flush to the plants/pots to avoid building*excess salts, in hydroton and the pot ?*Does the bio filter help in this situation ?

Also I see you don't *change nutes every week ? Only top offs and "adds" ? Did I understand that right ?*
And if yes , is this a kind of rule , or is upon growers decision ?

Thanx in advance guys , great topic indeed , well done keep'going !!!!*

 

[Gruetoo]

I personally only change out the res (pots full) about monthly. Add backs for me. I run a RDW and only use 50% of what the Lable say's (Heavy 16) I also tea bag Alphpha, and Earth worm casting, Yes a small stainless steel teabag for a tea pot. Also in the ball is either Ogbiowar's Nute pack or root pack or Foliar pack. Weekly I add reef boron reef Molybdenum and Silicic acid. Water is PHed to 5.9 So Yes grower's decision. I Only flush at the end, and then it is a 2 week with top off Phed water. I am unsure What BM is. As my system is water from the top I have never seen a gnat. And I am sure the eggs would be collected in the filter sock nice place for Gnats (sarcastic)

As for building excess salts I think your system and the ammount you feed will dictate how much and when you have to flush. Again just my 2 cents

Gruetoo

BTW, I went with a simple 4" sock on the return with about a cup of fluval's course media. Water returns into res and 2 90deg elbows so the water comes straight down. I used a piece of Stainless steel guide wire threaded thru the sock to hang it on the 90. Not too high tec but it works for me.

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

I honestly am thinking about putting a layer of lava rocks at the bottom of my buckets along with some EWC.

as of late my information gathering has led me to search how to create the "BB" in a natural way and am learning a lot that way as well. lot of talk about lava rocks, EWC and molasses to feed the "bene's" (lol, so many new terms ive never heard before!!)

for the record im going to be doing a "along side" type run this time. I planned to run 8xDWC's but i'll just run the 6 with regular GH (lucas formula) nutes/ 4" airstones and the occasional use of the water pump coupled with some manner of filter to get rid of any thing that may start float before plants are added (remember, very nasty ass NJ water)

the other 2 I will run them with airstones/lava rocks at the bottom/EWC (somehow) and see what happens during a months time. trust me, I know its a shot in the dark and I just want to see what does/can/will happen with this. maybe one with a heater and one without?

from what ive been reading as of late, most people are growing with filters to get rid of the dead stuff; most are talking about adding enzymes and BB as an additive and not to a sustainable bio system like a fishtank or tank of any kind. its more along the lines of " hey I added a filter to get rid of the floaties and oooh look what else happened!"

my goal is honestly to run my DWC's the same way a fishtank is run, just top up and put the plants in adding nutes every once in a while in a self sustaining/ self contained bio system, I just need to find out how to do it.

yeah, im sold on this topic as well! love it all, and taking it all in.

Q: as far as DIY filters are concerned (mainly the ones made of of water bottles, if you do a youtube search they will instantly pop up) im not sure if the fact that the bottles are mounted upside down has anything to do with the flow/power of the filtering action? (you can find a million and one "how to do" things but not nearly enough "and this is why" to accompany them)

reason I asked is because I made my DIY filters for the DWC's and there wasn't any filtration action at all BUT the one I made out of a smartwater bottle for my fish tank is hung upside down and is running really well. also I wanted to know because if its all about the way the they are hung then I may be able to use a bigger container for my DWC's. had a design Idea to put a 90 degree elbow on the top of the bottle if it increases the flow/filtration rate.

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

heres a good link for those that want more explanation about bio filters in hydro: http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2009/08/maximizing-the-nutrient-environment-part-3/

the more I read the more im beginning to get it, now I need to get this DIY airfilter together!

 

[Asotos]

Thanx guys very informative posts !! And the link too ...
Hell , I'm going to try the bennies and Biofilter for sure ...

Need to find the right order to GHE products ! There are 3 products from what I see "subculture", "biomagix" and "bio ponix". Subculture is what you have to run first , in the Biofilter from what I see ...
If anyone has used GHE products plz enlighten us, here

 

[FRIENDinDEED]

OH MAN, how easy is aquaponics? the fish feed the plants, the plants clean the water and round and round it goes. cant wait until my money situation gets better, I really do see a fish tank, I mean big tank, in my future.

I have found so much information and so many videos its ridiculous! will start to post a few here and there. lots of DIY filters for large systems, lots of information on bene's specific for plant gardens, its soooo crazy.

takes a minute to set it, but once its set you can literally forget it. . . to a degree ofcourse

 

[Asotos]

Ps: any

 

[Asotos]

Ps: anybody know , if mosquito dunks can be used simultaneously with a Biofilter ?
(sorry for the above wrong post)

 

[Asotos]

@friendindeed:

You might wanna check this link mate, I think is what are you looking for:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=194758