Best blueberry?

[Mr. Nevermind]

I see...We just do not know quality like you....

Ok,now I understand........

Perhaps not Captain Sarcasm. I can tell you that my friend in Or had to give away his herb he got from those beans. He has peopel almost beating down his door for his Dabney yet he had to give away Dj's gear and those who had it werent pleased at all. Including the person he got Dabney from , he thought that dj's was a joke. So while you and your friends may think its great, other who have smoked a real Blueberry see it for what it is. A watered down version. If you have a problem wiht my posts, quite simply you can put me on ignore and i will lose no sleep. But if you care to respond to my posts, leave the sarcasm at the door.






Nevermind

 

[Octavian]

Perhaps not Captain Sarcasm. I can tell you that my friend in Or had to give away his herb he got from those beans. He has peopel almost beating down his door for his Dabney yet he had to give away Dj's gear and those who had it werent pleased at all. Including the person he got Dabney from , he thought that dj's was a joke. So while you and your friends may think its great, other who have smoked a real Blueberry see it for what it is. A watered down version. If you have a problem wiht my posts, quite simply you can put me on ignore and i will lose no sleep. But if you care to respond to my posts, leave the sarcasm at the door.






Nevermind

Sure wish I was as COOL as Nevermind to have such awesome "friends"! [sarcasm /off]

YAWN

Octavian

 

[TORC]

There is no best version of blueberry, there only is one blueberry, period. All others are hybrids of blueberry, and that is really all there is to it. DJ short has worked with this strain for more years than most people have even been smoking, and has consistently released a product that is unique and of connaisseur quality. Imitation is the truest form of flattery, but for someone to use his genetics and then claim that these very same genetics are poor- in my opinion loses all credibility.

Enough said.

 

[Guest]

It is not that at all Namkha. It is the fact that every time someone asks about BB, A-pips comes in tooting his own horn and his own(LOL) genetics, whilst bashing DJ's breeding techniques. A difference of opinion is fine, I know we have ours in this matter. However, when that difference of opinion is being given by someone who is not a breeder, yet claims to know everything about it, that is when this happens. DJ's breeding theories and practices have been going on for quite some time with outstanding results. When one stands the test of time, that one must be doing something right.

hey, well listen, IMHO a "breeder" should be as much a traveller and a collector as anything else, and I would venture suggest that DJ Short would agree with me on that

after all, the first thing he did in creating Blueberry was to hunt down some pure, unadulterated landraces (Afghan, Oaxaca and Thai) from which to begin selecting and breeding for the "Blueberry" effect (which basically, in my reading, is the result of crossing good hashish lines with some quality smoking sativas ... try it yourself - most progeny will have intense floral and fruity aromas)

if you trace this argument back, you will see that Afropips' real beef was with the "True Blueberry", which, as I read it, shows all the traits of simply being way too inbred

the fact is: the minute Afropips offered that criticism he was met with an onslaught of personal attacks and unfounded shots at his lines -

which brings me to why I am willing to keep on with this discussion:

the fact is that great highs are already out there in the big wide world, and have been for centuries, literally, millenia in some cases (likewise I'm sure DJ Short would agree with that too) - so in all seriousness, at the risk of turning this thread into a towering inferno:

I really think that there is not nearly enough credit given to the people who, over centuries past, molded and nurtured the great smoking strains that - in reality - form the basis of every great indoor and outdoor strains we have

i.e. the same ignored tribes and groups whose descendants form the silent majority of today's world - people such as the tribesman of the NWF provinces, the starving people in famine stricken Malawi, the persecuted ethnic minorities of Burma and Laos... I could go on

the fact is that these are the voiceless and silent people of today's world - totally ignored by the media, and, more worryingly, given little or no credit by smokers and growers like us ... and frankly we are the people who are supposed to know better, or should do

but we still show the same inward-looking conceited attitude - looking at the prevailing attitide you would think that the great drug strains had popped out of nowhere - "lo and behold - cannabis, which miraculously manifested in a grower's loft in 1980 - never before witnessed in the history of humanity"

yeh, so this is in no way shape or form an attack on DJ Short - this is an attack on an attitude which fixates on modern "Western" strains, and ignores what being a great "breeder" is all about

cannabis breeding began way back at the dawn of humanity - and we are merely the tip of the iceberg in that respect

and again, this is not an attack on modern breeding - merely a call for a shift of perspective and a change of attitude - i.e. credit where credit is due

 

[TORC]

hey, well listen, IMHO a "breeder" should be as much a traveller and a collector as anything else, and I would venture suggest that DJ Short would agree with me on that

after all, the first thing he did in creating Blueberry was to hunt down some pure, unadulterated landraces (Afghan, Oaxaca and Thai) from which to begin selecting and breeding for the "Blueberry" effect (which basically, in my reading, is the result of crossing good hashish lines with some quality smoking sativas ... try it yourself - most progeny will have intense floral and fruity aromas)

if you trace this argument back, you will see that Afropips' real beef was with the "True Blueberry", which, as I read it, shows all the traits of simply being way too inbred

the fact is: the minute Afropips offered that criticism he was met with an onslaught of personal attacks and unfounded shots at his lines -

which brings me to why I am willing to keep on with this discussion:

the fact is that great highs are already out there in the big wide world, and have been for centuries, literally, millenia in some cases (likewise I'm sure DJ Short would agree with that too) - so in all seriousness, at the risk of turning this thread into a towering inferno:

I really think that there is not nearly enough credit given to the people who, over centuries past, molded and nurtured the great smoking strains that - in reality - form the basis of every great indoor and outdoor strains we have

i.e. the same ignored tribes and groups whose descendants form the silent majority of today's world - people such as the tribesman of the NWF provinces, the starving people in famine stricken Malawi, the persecuted ethnic minorities of Burma and Laos... I could go on

the fact is that these are the voiceless and silent people of today's world - totally ignored by the media, and, more worryingly, given little or no credit by smokers and growers like us ... and frankly we are the people who are supposed to know better, or should do

but we still show the same inward-looking conceited attitude - looking at the prevailing attitide you would think that the great drug strains had popped out of nowhere - "lo and behold - cannabis, which miraculously manifested in a grower's loft in 1980 - never before witnessed in the history of humanity"

yeh, so this is in no way shape or form an attack on DJ Short - this is an attack on an attitude which fixates on modern "Western" strains, and ignores what being a great "breeder" is all about

cannabis breeding began way back at the dawn of humanity - and we are merely the tip of the iceberg in that respect

and again, this is not an attack on modern breeding - merely a call for a shift of perspective and a change of attitude - i.e. credit where credit is due

I would completely agree with you on most of this. You know we disagree about BB being too inbred. But, if you take that angle, nurturing and maintaining the native plants, then that still doesn't make Afro-pips a breeder. It would be who he gets the seeds from, like you stated at the end of your last post. All thanks should be given to those who have preserved the great strains in the natural places of origin, or at least where they have been grown for many centuries.

 

[zamalito]

I'm going to assume part of the blame for getting this thread off topic. I agree namkha and afropips that tropical outdoor breeders growing family heirloom strains deserve most of the credit. That said this criticism of djshort doesn't really apply to the question of which blueberry is best if all the blueberries in question are stabilized hybrids and bred in manners similar to those used by djshort. In fact I just recently ordered some flodica. Not because I want to try the bud that the seeds produce but the idea of a strain with mostly recessive yet desirable traits sounds excellent for crossing a landrace to. Since the strain is mostly recessive in an f1 cross to a landrace the only traits displayed from the flodica gene pool will be those that were also passed on from the landrace parent possibly increasing resin content and shortening flower time with
very little impact on the traits displayed.

 

[Rosy Cheeks]

I do not wish to choose side in the ongoing debate, I just want to shed some light on the talk about mutations (of DJ Shorts Blueberry).

Mutations might be concidered as "freakish" and "unhealthy" by some, but it is an integrated part in the genetic evolution (read evolution of the species).

First of all, mutations often occur in nature. Apart from natural mistakes in the genetic code, a common reason for plant mutation is UV radiation. Harmful short-wave ultraviolet radiation (UV-B) not only damages DNA but activates otherwise dormant "mutator" elements, or transposons. These transposons, sometimes called "jumping genes," amplify the effects of the UV-B exposure by causing mutations beyond the immediate DNA damage.

Gamma radiation is another type of radiation that is known to cause leaf and colour mutations to plants.

In agriculture, genetic mutation is created by selective breeding. For the past 10,000 years, humans have used the plants nature provided and modified them through selective breeding to have desirable characteristics such as improved taste, enhanced yield and pest resistance. The result is that the plants we consume today would be largely unrecognizable to our ancient ancestors (the original wild tomato plant didn't grow fruits bigger than grapes, and the wild potato plant contained a chemical called glycoalkaloid, which is toxic to humans, making it close to inedible).
In the 1950s, plant breeders developed methods of creating variation in an organism's genetic structure through what is termed "mutation breeding." For instance, abnormal flower clusters or colour variations are recuperated and propagated through selective breeding. Mutation breeding uses similar random processes to cause changes in plant genes. Plants then are assessed to determine if the genes were changed and whether the changes provided a beneficial trait such as disease or insect resistance. If the plant was "improved," then it was tested for other changes that may have occurred. Many of the common food crops we use daily have been developed through techniques such as embryo rescue and mutation breeding and virtually all the foods we consume have such genes in them.
It is therefore necessary to think twice before culling a plant which produces mutations. It's not because the leaves are growing in a new shape (let's say webbed leaves instead of compound-pinnate leaves, which occasionally happens in Cannabis Sativa) or produce some kind of deformation that the plant is bad material for further breeding. On the contrary, a conscious selective breeding for better drug-type Cannabis should exclude esthetic qualities, and concentrate on the following traits:
Size and Yield, Vigor, Adaptability, Hardiness, Disease and Pest Resistance, Maturation, Root Production and Branching.

Just as modern genetic engineering technology is capable of producing mutated fruit crops with higher vitamine and nutrient values, we can also produce Cannabis with better cannabinoid compositions. A better high is what we want, isn't it? Freakish leaves or not.

 

[afropips]

Hi RC,
Clearly there are differences in mutants which may be beneficial
in a breeding program like Ducksfoot & then there are the abnormal mutants
with severe deformities that are not beneficial to
Size and Yield, Vigor, Adaptability, Hardiness, Disease and Pest Resistance, Maturation, Root Production and Branching in the breeding program.

http://www.case.edu/pubs/cnews/2003/12-18/cullis.htm
weeding out the Mutants in modern banana & date cultivars.

I am neither an advocate for GM foods.
http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/18827/newsDate/29- Nov-2002/story.htm

"It shows that GM crops can irreversibly pass on their genes to wild plants and contaminate our natural heritage," Greenpeace spokesman, Ben Alyffe told Reuters.


Cool Runnings..........

 

[muddy waters]

the best blueberry i ever had was regular ass blue mystic from nirvana from gypsy back when it cost 15 dolla & he accepted my credit card... because only first worlders can afford beans that cost more than that..

but i fucked up that grow killing 6/10 seeds in germ and my only consolation was that a stray male pollinated an aging south american sativa. then i grew out those blue mystic and sativa hybrids. i don't have any pictures of the dry product but brother raco's shots reminded me a lot of it, structurally, just mine was looser for lack of light. but i was on the shit like it was crack. sativa-looking lighter cerebral high with a blueberry aroma, finished in 65 days, smelling like you dropped a skunk nug in a jar of blueberry jelly.

pic doesn't show the resin by when it was dry it reflected light just like raco's photo, silver with burnt orange hairs

 

[Guest]

Well, I love Blueberry, never had a hermie, one or two slight mutants, but like others have said, they grow out of it into lovely ladies with killer buds.

Last Blueberry cross I grew was Afropip's Fast Blast, which is Iranian x Blueberry. Sadly it is possibly the worst strain I've grown. The plants were lovely until going into flower, from 3 females out of 5 seeds started, got 3 phenos, the Blueberry and Iranian phenos were rubbish, never formed proper buds, just strips of tiny calyxes, both plants ended up in the trim bin to make cannabutter. Harvested the 50/50 pheno last week, this one flowered properly, with really dense indica nuggets but its the least frosty plant I've grown and the buds are low potency, I gave them away to a friend as I have much more potent and tasty in my stash. They also took ages to finish, the first too just got the chop after I ran out of patience with them, they were so leafy it was unreal, far more leaf then calyx. The third one that produced proper buds took over 70 days, the advertised in 45 days.

None of that is an attack on Afropips, just my 2 cents on that strain, apart from being easy to grow it was a total waste of time.

That said, I'm not going to brand Fast Blast a rubbish strain based on my one experience, I am sure there will be others who are happy with it and get better results. All those who say Blueberry is rubbish should adopt a similar attitude imho, there are lots of us who like Blueberry and have had good results so that must be borne in mind.

 

[- ezra -]

My opinion regards the DJ BB mutants is a fact & not slander.

o‧pin‧ion 
Pronunciation[uh-pin-yuhn]
–noun
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
fact 
Pronunciation [fakt]
–noun
1. something that actually exists; reality; truth
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

slan‧der  Pronunciation [slan-der]
–noun
1. defamation; calumny
2. a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hmmm... Afropip you may want to revise your conceptualization of these key words. I hope these dictionary excerpts help.

 

[Guest]

Everyone I know who has ever smoked blueberry loves it and most would say it is the tastiest weed they have smoked.

Afropips, if someone grew out one of your crosses (I won't call them strains as they aren't fully developed, turebreeding, stabilised lines like blueberry) and had a mutant or hermie and then posted all over the place that that cross is a load of rubbish you;d be pretty upset wouldn't you?

IMHO it's always a valuable exercise to put oneself (mentally) in the other persons shoes before opening one's mouth.

There are too seperate issues being discussed here - the merits & faults of blueberry and Afropips attitude, I think it would be more productive to seperate the two and restrict this thread to discussion of blueberry.

 

[zamalito]

I'm thinking that the reason djshort breeds f1 hybrids into ibl's are:

1. Because there are very few landrace cultivars that are as suitable for indoor growth as members of the blueberry family yet provide a non-indica buzz.

2. Stabilized hybrids are much more appropriate for breeding with than f1 hybrids.

3. Most of the recessive traits both good and bad only show up after inbreeding. So when trying to breed something unique you risk having something like krinkle leafed plants but there are also many benefits.

4 unfortunately most landrace aren't that appropriate for indoor growth. Most people don't have the space to grow a pure sativa landrace and want something other than a pure indica. It would be a shame for those people to only have access to grow f1 hybrids with little recessive expression in the highs and flavors simply because breeders were scared of producing a seed with a deformed leaf trait.

 

[Guest]

Three excellent points there zam, I agree with all three.

The sativa landrace indoors is difficult, I know someone who grows Ethiopian Highland successfully indoors in a very small space under fluoros, and I have great results from Columbian Gold, but I have discovered for myself the value of adding some indicagenes to the mix when growing indoors. I have both pure Thai and a Thai x Afghan cross I made flowerign at the moment. After 7 weeks of flower, the Thai has few triches and is forming those classic long, thin thai buds whereas the hybrid has lots of triches and the buds are larger, first time I've grown the hybrid so interested to compare the hghs of the pure to the hybrid and see how long the hybrid takes to finish, the pure one takes 16 weeks. At this point in flower, the hybrid looks to be a big improvement over the pure Thai, stature is shorter too, being about two-thirds the height of the pue Thai.

In my opinion, the most highly regarded strains are often a cross of two sativas with some indica influence added such as Skunk #1 (Columbian Gold, Acapulco Gold and Afghani), Trainwreck (Thai, Mexican and Afghani), Blueberry (Highland Thai, Purple Thai and Afghani). DJ Short says that indicas should be used to make hash, well I tend to agree, indicas have been inbred by man for millenia, selected for resin production for hash making. I think all the best strains I've tried (well, the ones I liked most) were at least 60% sativa with most of them being at least 75% sativa.

 

[Rosy Cheeks]

Hi RC,
Clearly there are differences in mutants which may be beneficial
in a breeding program like Ducksfoot & then there are the abnormal mutants
with severe deformities that are not beneficial to
Size and Yield, Vigor, Adaptability, Hardiness, Disease and Pest Resistance, Maturation, Root Production and Branching in the breeding program.

http://www.case.edu/pubs/cnews/2003/12-18/cullis.htm
weeding out the Mutants in modern banana & date cultivars.

I am neither an advocate for GM foods.
http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/18827/newsDate/29- Nov-2002/story.htm

"It shows that GM crops can irreversibly pass on their genes to wild plants and contaminate our natural heritage," Greenpeace spokesman, Ben Alyffe told Reuters.


Cool Runnings..........

Yeah, in the Ducksfoot, a leaf-mutation gives the plant a less characteristic Cannabis-look, and therefore that genotype is practical for certain outdoor growers. But apart from that, the esthetic look of the plant is not very important, unless your main objective with growing is winning the picture-of-the-week competition (which is why I personally find purple strains uninteresting to work with).

Weeding out mutants in Banana and Date crop production is justified because of purely practical reasons. "Runts" have no place in industrial crop cultivation, and the fruits must of course look exactly like the consumer wants them to look.
You can be sure though, that in the genetic laboratories, they work with mutants in order to give Banana and Date trees even better looking and tasting fruits.

I personally do not share the fear of genetically modified plants (although caution is wise). In nature, there is one basic rule for the genetic evolution; the survival of the fittest.
This process will streamline any species into being as performant as possible in its environmental context.

Any gene mutation that will make the organism more performant will survive.

Any gene mutation that does not will eventually disappear.

Drug type Cannabis (strains refined for their psyshoactive qualities) let loose in nature will loose in potency in as little as a couple of generations. In nature, survival qualities and reproduction capacity will overrule high THC content.

The idea of preserving wild strains (landraces) is sweet but naive, since all species are in constant evolution. Even without the interference of man, contemporary Buttercups are not genetically the same as the Buttercups that grew a millenium ago. They still look like Buttercups to us, but they are not the same. They have evolved. Besides, the fact that the Cannabis plant has spread across the globe and developed into different varieties is surely thanks to man, so landrace strains in places such as Jamaica or La Reunion are actually "artificial" strains.

If we concider the fact that humans have altered and refined the genetic make-up in plants and domestic animals for countless of generations, and that we're reshaping the environmental and climatic conditions (the constant increase of CO2 in the atmosphere and the rise of temperatures will eventually affect and change ALL plant species on this planet), one can ask oneself what good it will do to protect nature. It will simply have to adapt to the new conditions we have created for it.

the best blueberry i ever had was regular ass blue mystic from nirvana

It is not my intention to bash Nirvana, they make performant genetics avaible for an affordable price. But Nirvana's strains are basically just whatever strain crossed with Skunk (with a few exceptions, such as Ice) and crossing with Skunk is a bit like cooking with cream. It will (almost) always make the dish more savory, the negative part is when there's cream in everything. For a connoiseur grower, having a strain like Blueberry without that stereotye Skunk feel to it is a precious gift to variety.

 

[Guest]

It's not just Nirvana that are guilty of having a bit of skunk in most of their genetics, it's a trait of almost the entire Dutch seed industry. I got very sick of Skunky weed so for the last couple of years I've been trying to find more exotic strains.

 

[afropips]

Hiya BH,
How much did you pay for the Fast Blast or was it the Fast Blast Mix you scooped?
Hardly a comparison!

Do some more reading regards the modern Breeding practises
& what happened to Maize cultivars last century in the US due to inbreeding
with a small gene pool.

Cool Runnings........

 

[Mr. Alkaline]

I think.......

I think.......

Somewhere I heard that DJ gave Breeder Steve fifty seeds for a project.
I heard somewhere that dutch passion grew out fifty seeds to make selections of blue stock. I grew out forty Apollo 11 f2's and never found a true genius pheno. I grew out twenty DP flo and though never did I find the true and potent pheno my imaginaton sought......I found a plant that gave me colorful and magically sparkled vision that I had never known possibly existed. Well whatever....I can say that....there is a specific set of steps that can produce any outcome......and in my mind, If I truly desired to have the most blueberry in my life....it would require that "I" purchase five packs.
Sorry to sound lost in the land of somewhere....but I am having trouble logging into overgrow to hash up some reference material. - Mr. Alkaline

 

[Rosy Cheeks]

Sorry to sound lost in the land of somewhere....but I am having trouble logging into overgrow to hash up some reference material

I'm sure there's a good reason for it.

 

[zamalito]

IMO the problems with corn diseases that you are referring to had more to do with the widespred use of one paticular variety than inbreeding. Since most of the cannabis seed that are easy to grow indoors or commercially available are descended from skunk this is a concern. However djshort's gennetics are easy to grow indoors and well stabilized yet aren't skunk 1 based they actually provide an alternative gene pool for this purpose.