beliefs and assumptions that are...

[ezak420]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Beware of Beliefs! It is better to reside in the realm of anxiety and not knowing rather than succumb to the slumber of beliefs. Beliefs are merely thoughts and perceptions of other fallible human beings that sound like Truth but under investigation...turn out to be...not. Live your life from your own Truths...through your own experiences...or even blazingly discard all beliefs and become a vessel for true knowledge. Get comfortable saying...I Don't Know...feel how it feels to not have the answers and even better...to not need them.
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[dank.frank]

southflorida - let's just get down to the bottom of ALL your posts on this topic and let me ask you ONE single question...

You embrace this great philosophical jaber...that attempts to explain in some sort of contrite way that we in fact only are what we choose to embrace / manifest in our minds. That reality is self created within oneself - and that ultimately it is in conflict with what is actually happening around us. Who FULLY embraces "awareness"? To what benefit is it?

Why does humanity exist? Plain and simple. In as FEW words as possible.



dank.Frank

 

[southflorida]

southflorida - let's just get down to the bottom of ALL your posts on this topic and let me ask you ONE single question...

You embrace this great philosophical jaber...that attempts to explain in some sort of contrite way that we in fact only are what we choose to embrace / manifest in our minds. That reality is self created within oneself - and that ultimately it is in conflict with what is actually happening around us.

reality does not conflict with what is happening, the only conflict is in the human "mind."

reality is always what "is."

illusion is always what "is-not."

Who FULLY embraces "awareness"? To what benefit is it?

are you NOT aware of your thoughts, your emotions, your body, the experience around you?

if you are aware of them, how can you be any of it?

are you NOT, fundamentally the present moment "awareness" that is aware of everything in your experience?

Why does humanity exist? Plain and simple. In as FEW words as possible.

evolution of consciousness (my belief and assumption )

since humans are an element of consciousness, as is everything else, they are a piece of the evolution that is clearly occuring.

not to everyone or everything, but those that are evolving, are pushing evolution forward.

 

[southflorida]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Beware of Beliefs! It is better to reside in the realm of anxiety and not knowing rather than succumb to the slumber of beliefs. Beliefs are merely thoughts and perceptions of other fallible human beings that sound like Truth but under investigation...turn out to be...not. Live your life from your own Truths...through your own experiences...or even blazingly discard all beliefs and become a vessel for true knowledge. Get comfortable saying...I Don't Know...feel how it feels to not have the answers and even better...to not need them.
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good post ezak

 

[dddaver]

MY problem is not in me saying I Don't Know. I think most people with any education will say they Don't Know. That's what education does mostly anyway. It just shows you what you DON'T or CAN'T know.

MY problem is more with other people not saying that and then bullshitting and lying to cover that fact up they don't know what they are talking about. I am not proud to admit I am particularly gullible to that. I really want to take people at their word. But, I find I can't a lot.

I also strongly believe in that Self Fulfilling Prophesy theory too. We only can become what we BELIEVE we can and will be. There are some wrinkles and variations. There is Serendipity and Shit Happens. But for the most part that holds true.

I ASSUME you are speaking to the practical applications of your philosophical statements? Or are you just speaking in terms of philosophical generalizations?

 

[southflorida]

MY problem is not in me saying I Don't Know. I think most people with any education will say they Don't Know. That's what education does mostly anyway. It just shows you what you DON'T or CAN'T know.

MY problem is more with other people not saying that and then bullshitting and lying to cover that fact up they don't know what they are talking about. I am not proud to admit I am particularly gullible to that. I really want to take people at their word. But, I find I can't a lot.

in our culture there are two very strong assumptions that are spoon-fed regularly to humans from birth:

#1...not-knowing is bad, and should be avoided at all costs

#2...every human has a separate "self."

these two cultural beliefs send us down a slope of never-ending suffering and struggle.

these two beliefs play off each other, and create the fucked-up human condition that we are all currently a part of

believing the first makes knowledge and knowing all-important, and creates all kinds of other assumptions, like knowledge is power, etc.

believing the second leads to the creation of the false "conceptual" self that is nothing more than a snowball of cultural beliefs and assumptions that are borrowed and worn like a diving suit to give the appearance of being a "certain way" and having a "unique identity." In reality, there is nothing unique about any of us, in relation to our self-identities, that is, they are all fashioned in relation to the culture where we exist.

...think about it...without the culture and community where we exist, we would simply be "beings" that don't need a self-identity, we would simply be who we are, we would have no need or desire to create and act-out a role, like an actor in a movie.

...this seems to be what you're pointing at. You see other people playing roles, and since no one really knows who or what they "really" are, they believe and assume that pretending to be someone that they are not, is their only option.

...but it is not.

...living in a state of not-knowing is also an option, and obviously more authentic and true than mis-representing one-self and living as a snowball of concepts (beliefs, assumptions, and lies.)

...but the hardest thing is to see how we, ourselves, are living as this false self. Seeing it in others is easy, seeing it in ourselves is not.

I also strongly believe in that Self Fulfilling Prophesy theory too. We only can become what we BELIEVE we can and will be. There are some wrinkles and variations. There is Serendipity and Shit Happens. But for the most part that holds true.

...we believe we are our physical body, our thoughts, and our emotions, while in reality we are individual consciousness "imagining" all of these things in our awareness in the present moment, on a moment to moment basis.

it's clearly obvious there is "nothing" except this present moment in which we always and only exist.

in the the.myth.of.objective.reality thread, in my signature, i explain why everything we perceive is secondary and is occuring in our imagination/awareness.

I ASSUME you are speaking to the practical applications of your philosophical statements? Or are you just speaking in terms of philosophical generalizations?

I'm speaking of practical application in my direct experience.

 

[southflorida]

That which is, never ceases to be. That which is-not, never comes into being.

Parmenides.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parmenides

 

[dank.frank]

My feeling on this whole matter...sure, I know things - am aware, I guess you would say - but that doesn't make me special nor has it ever played out in my mind to suggest that I've gained some form of enlightenment...no, rather, I just think of it as not being stupid...

I still can't see what BENEFIT there is to thinking this way...



dank.Frank

 

[southflorida]

My feeling on this whole matter...sure, I know things - am aware, I guess you would say - but that doesn't make me special nor has it ever played out in my mind to suggest that I've gained some form of enlightenment...no, rather, I just think of it as not being stupid...

i'm trying to point at what we all are calling "i" - what is that "really?"

...most are not interested in exploring this question to its "root."

...I am

...if one is honest, he will clearly see that the body, mind, emotions, and the world are what this "i" is aware of.

...meaning that fundamentally...the body, mind, emotions, and the world are "not" who we are, and don't and can't, reflect who we are.

...so the main question is what is this "i" ???

...what is its true nature?

I still can't see what BENEFIT there is to thinking this way...

...that's because you put a lot of value on successful "surviving."

...in order to survive successfully one must focus on what you are calling "benefits."

...but this whole "survival" domain is simply a mouse chasing the "cheese" that it can never get. No matter how many things we accomplish successfully we will always want "more." And this wanting does not end...until we do.

...survival is about persisting, so stuff persists.

...after one million, it's two million.

...after a pound, it's two pounds, etc.

=================================

what I'm trying to point at is fundamental, and has nothing to do with secondary processes, like physical and social survival.

what I'm pointing at is the true nature of who we are and what experience is.

btw...this topic is not interesting for most folks.

...most folks want to chase the "cheese" that they will never get.

...they keep running after the cheese because they believe and assume that one day, they will finally grab that cheese and will live happily after

...with their happiness level taken to the ultimate level.

...but this is an illusion.

...all most are really doing is running away from what they really "are" and towards all kinds of BS that never makes them "truly" happy.

...am I right or am I right?

 

[offthehook]

It 'll add to the options of that what we all don't know Dank Frank.

So it adds to our possibilities on how to percieve something, so we won't get stuck in too limited our options to pick from on matters deciding the perceptence of our 'reality', wich enlarges the awareness. That's the benefit I would say

Once you are aware, you'll know what part of yourselves is engaging in utter BS and what part of yourselves somehow seems to make sense according to a certain way of methodic thought.

 

[southflorida]

to get to the bottom, to the root of the questions:

"what is this experience I'm aware of?"

"who or what am I really?"

"what is "is?"

we must start, go through, and end with experience.

we do not start with theories, models, maps, teachings, beliefs, assumptions, convictions, scientific facts ...and try to fit our experience into these models, maps, teachings, beliefs, assumptions, convictions, and scientific facts

we allow the naked clarity of experience itself to relieve itself from the burden of duality.

we simply look at the facts of experience, and ask...

"is it true of my experience in this moment?"

that is the only reference point

 

[Wiggs Dannyboy]

Hey southflorida...

Is there a particular philosophy you follow? Your posts seem to reflect some form of Buddhism, but I don't recall you mentioning it. I feel like I have some idea where you are coming from, but if I was able to associate your position with a well-known system of metaphysics I could probably more clearly understand what you are getting at.

 

[southflorida]

Hey Wiggs Dannyboy!

I'm not a follower of any system, to be honest.

I'm simply highly interested in seeing clearly who "I" really am, and what this experience that this "I" experiences really is.

Each of us exists in this experience, it is always present, always here and now, and based on this experience we can openly question it without needing any kind of system of metaphysics, or anything else for that matter.

This experience that we're experiencing....what is it?

Who or what is this "I" that is really experiencing this experience?

The answers should come from our experience obviously and not some system.

I'm sure if you honestly contemplate your current experience, you will feel what I'm getting at.

 

[dank.frank]

Yeah, but who you "really" are is not some mental twist on "reality".

If I cut you...you bleed. That is who you are. Flesh. Bone. Blood.

Outside of that...it's all choices. How much you understand of those choices, is really just perspective.

You can't out think / out understand what IS. And your attempt to make things some ultra complex understanding just seems no different to me than any person filling their life with some sort of intrinsic meaning...for no other reason than to do so.

What BENEFIT comes from such "understanding" or awareness? To me, it just seems like a fun campfire conversation...not some life altering monumental light bulb going off.



dank.Frank

 

[ezak420]

sometimes words can't express the awe that is existence. anything existing at all is the miracle.[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]
there are no rules other than those evolved by the necessity of energy manifesting the experiences intended by Consciousness, or.. by the self-imposed limitations of our own individualized perceptions..[/FONT]
to know and understand our existence without predijuce or desire but instead from real experience. life advances into its own purpose; the experience of its own existence.
[/FONT] [/FONT]

 

[southflorida]

Yeah, but who you "really" are is not some mental twist on "reality".

are you experiencing your current experience? who is experiencing it?

is it the body that you are aware of? is it the mind that you are aware of? or maybe it is the emotions, which are also something you are aware of?

if you are aware of all these things, then you are the awareness, aware of these things, you are NOT the things you are aware of.

If I cut you...you bleed. That is who you are. Flesh. Bone. Blood.

those are all things I'm aware of, they are obviously not the real me, the one who is aware of being cut.

Outside of that...it's all choices. How much you understand of those choices, is really just perspective.

actually there is nothing "outside" - it is all more like "inside" - inside of our consciousness, our awareness.

You can't out think / out understand what IS. And your attempt to make things some ultra complex understanding just seems no different to me than any person filling their life with some sort of intrinsic meaning...for no other reason than to do so.

there is nothing complex. believing oneself to be a body/mind, is what makes everything complex.

what I'm pointing at is as simple as it gets...here it is again...what is...is. That's it.

What BENEFIT comes from such "understanding" or awareness? To me, it just seems like a fun campfire conversation...not some life altering monumental light bulb going off.

the "truth" is the benefit, and there doesn't have to be any life altering experience.

remember...what is, simply "is" - what is life altering about that?

it is not about benefits, it is about clearly seeing who/what you really "are."

 

[southflorida]

sometimes words can't express the awe that is existence. anything existing at all is the miracle.[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]
there are no rules other than those evolved by the necessity of energy manifesting the experiences intended by Consciousness, or.. by the self-imposed limitations of our own individualized perceptions..[/FONT]
to know and understand our existence without predijuce or desire but instead from real experience. life advances into its own purpose; the experience of its own existence.
[/FONT] [/FONT]

guess, one either gets it, or they don't

 

[southflorida]

the biggest illusion, and a false belief and cultural assumption that permeates the human condition is that we are fundamentally a body with a mind.

the reality is that fundamentally (i.e originally, authentically) we are consciousness aware of a body, mind, and the world.

the difference between the two is infinite.

that illusion is the root of our never-ending suffering and struggle.

and also the root of our never-ending desire to experience happiness through things, relationships, addictions, etc.

consciousness/awareness is primary.

body, mind, the world is secondary.

we are all simply a dance of elements inside of consciousness, that is aware "as" everything there is.

 

[GMT]

are you NOT aware of your thoughts, your emotions, your body, the experience around you?

if you are aware of them, how can you be any of it?

Isn't that a bit like saying
"HR recruits and tracks the employees of the company, and therefore cannot themselves be employees of the company?"


you seems to be embracing the self aware quantum possibilty theory whole heartedly and rejecting M-Theory completely when you say :

"it's clearly obvious there is "nothing" except this present moment in which we always and only exist.
in the the.myth.of.objective.reality thread, in my signature, i explain why everything we perceive is secondary and is occuring in our imagination/awareness."

Do you reject all notions of the existence of matter?

 

[southflorida]

Isn't that a bit like saying
"HR recruits and tracks the employees of the company, and therefore cannot themselves be employees of the company?"

no...HR...if they are employees, then they are employees!

i'm not making distinctions in words, but in our experience itself.

awareness of the body/mind is NOT the body/mind

you seems to be embracing the self aware quantum possibilty theory whole heartedly and rejecting M-Theory completely

i'm not embracing anything but my direct experience of the reality in which i exist.

Do you reject all notions of the existence of matter?

no, my perspective is that matter is secondary, consciousness/awareness is primary.