The synergies. For Bayer it’s the North American market and others where Monsanto has a stronghold. There is also the combination of their respective R & D departments.
-
As of today ICMag has his own Discord server. In this Discord server you can chat, talk with eachother, listen to music, share stories and pictures...and much more. Join now and let's grow together! Join ICMag Discord here! More details in this thread here: here.
Bayer Monsanto Merger Will Steal The Marijuana Industry
- Thread starter GuyManDude
- Start date
- Status
Amen!
It is public knowledge that research technology from GW Pharmaceuticals has been shared with Bayer since 2003...and then shared with Monsanto since 2007.
And...ahem, drum roll please, then is it any surprise that in 2009 (2 years after Monsanto's research got department got involved with GW Pharm) that GW Pharm announced it had succeeded in genetically altering a cannabis plant and patented a new breed of cannabis. Imagine that.
So, if the cannabis technology has been shared by all 3 (Bayer+Monsanto+GW Pharm) for almost 10 years know--then isn't the "the sky is falling" crowd a little late to this parade?
IMO, the Bayer+Monsanto merger is really a consolidation of two entities and their intellectual property. The cannabis marketplace is still consumer driven and I bet there is a greater percentage of "free thinking" people within the cannabis marketplace than the general population. Free thinkers do not like being told what to do.
And in response to Kono's assertion that was bought and paid for...and that capitalism is bad, I say the following: Dude I respect your opinion but strongly disagree. I rather have capitalism than socialism because: I enjoy the ability to choose, I love my freedom, I like technical innovation, and I like to say "no". You see, these things are absent in a socialistic society.
Good answer, Doc. (referring to your post to me) We can agree to disagree.
Still, I do not believe that your profitable corporate manipulations have made the world a better place anymore than I believe my rebellious outsider agitation has made the world a better place.
And I'm wondering what brings a corporate dude to a weed growers forum?
Still, I do not believe that your profitable corporate manipulations have made the world a better place anymore than I believe my rebellious outsider agitation has made the world a better place.
And I'm wondering what brings a corporate dude to a weed growers forum?
Chuck,
Absolutely man, if everyone agreed with everyone wouldn't this place be boring? That means everyone would be listening to the same music, same romance, same dogs, same clothes, same furniture, same weed, etc.
My liberal leaning friends have been friends of mine for over 30 years...we have a kick when we get together. I don't try to convert them and they don't try to convert me--we respect each other. Naturally, over time one's philosophy does change...I think they call that evolution, adaption, surviving, or something like that.
Again, not a corporate dude. In 1975 when I was brought in for my first consulting gig, I had hair to my shoulders and introduced to everyone wearing a Mickey Mouse t-shirt, jeans and flip flops. No one wore ties. They brought me in for my "skill set"--not for wearing color coordinated ties.
I smoked my first joint when I was 12 years old...and a dozen or so years later I found myself as a "candy man"--lol, had the best Thai sticks, red bud Columbian, snow in July and of course access to both pharmaceutical and bootleg quaaludes by the jar. Just call my beeper...lol.
Back in those days, everyone in "corporate America" skied in July and fucked like horny rabbits high on quaaludes. Just saying.
Absolutely man, if everyone agreed with everyone wouldn't this place be boring? That means everyone would be listening to the same music, same romance, same dogs, same clothes, same furniture, same weed, etc.
My liberal leaning friends have been friends of mine for over 30 years...we have a kick when we get together. I don't try to convert them and they don't try to convert me--we respect each other. Naturally, over time one's philosophy does change...I think they call that evolution, adaption, surviving, or something like that.
Again, not a corporate dude. In 1975 when I was brought in for my first consulting gig, I had hair to my shoulders and introduced to everyone wearing a Mickey Mouse t-shirt, jeans and flip flops. No one wore ties. They brought me in for my "skill set"--not for wearing color coordinated ties.
I smoked my first joint when I was 12 years old...and a dozen or so years later I found myself as a "candy man"--lol, had the best Thai sticks, red bud Columbian, snow in July and of course access to both pharmaceutical and bootleg quaaludes by the jar. Just call my beeper...lol.
Back in those days, everyone in "corporate America" skied in July and fucked like horny rabbits high on quaaludes. Just saying.
HarvestMoon303
Active member
For anyone to "Steal the industry", people need to want/purchase Monsanto's seeds. I can see the big dispos being interested, but they aren't going to be able to reach the typical hobby grower who really cares about what they grow or put into their body/medicine.
As others have mentioned, "it" (the cannabis seed game) doesn't pay nearly as well as the larger-market crops. GMO isn't inherently bad. If it's GMO to use LESS pesticides, it would be great for commercial ops. Seems like a lot of fear from people who don't know any better. I don't appreciate Monsanto's litigious nature, but they are feeding the world, and they have a pretty solid business model (as you may have noticed).
You can't really compare cannabis to anything else, particularly when the only desirable plants are female. I would expect that if they were able to genetically modify cannabis plants (which, of course, can be done), their first task would be to make them all female. That would eliminate males spreading Monsanto Genetics in their pollen AND keep people coming back to the company to buy more seeds for the next crop.
I would mostly expect Monsanto to make female, autoflowering, high yielding strains of cannabis. That's already been tried by several breeders, and most of us stay far away from Autos - for a reason. I can only assume that those same breeders would stay away from monsanto's seeds as well.
As others have mentioned, "it" (the cannabis seed game) doesn't pay nearly as well as the larger-market crops. GMO isn't inherently bad. If it's GMO to use LESS pesticides, it would be great for commercial ops. Seems like a lot of fear from people who don't know any better. I don't appreciate Monsanto's litigious nature, but they are feeding the world, and they have a pretty solid business model (as you may have noticed).
You can't really compare cannabis to anything else, particularly when the only desirable plants are female. I would expect that if they were able to genetically modify cannabis plants (which, of course, can be done), their first task would be to make them all female. That would eliminate males spreading Monsanto Genetics in their pollen AND keep people coming back to the company to buy more seeds for the next crop.
I would mostly expect Monsanto to make female, autoflowering, high yielding strains of cannabis. That's already been tried by several breeders, and most of us stay far away from Autos - for a reason. I can only assume that those same breeders would stay away from monsanto's seeds as well.
HarvestMoon303
Active member
What would injecting CO2 into soil do for plants? Plants update CO2 in their leaves, during the daylight hours. Roots don't want anything to do with CO2. Does CO2 somehow make the soil "not sterile" or "not poisonous"?
Sam...you gotta get out more.
Here is the 2009 GW Pharm patent, titled: Novel reference plant, a method for its production, extracts obtained therefrom and their use.
https://www.google.ch/patents/US20090035396?hl=de
The present invention relates to a novel reference plant, a method for producing a novel reference plant, extracts free of a medicinally active compound or group of compounds obtained therefrom and their use. More particularly, the novel reference plant is a plant derived from a comparator plant. In an exemplifying embodiment the medicinal compounds, which are "knocked out", are one or more cannabinoids and the plant is cannabis, Cannabis sativa, plant.
Using your words: "You are mistaken. Imagine that."
BTW I never said GW Pharm used GMO cannabis for breeding...lol. Imagine that! You reading words that were never written.
Here is the 2009 GW Pharm patent, titled: Novel reference plant, a method for its production, extracts obtained therefrom and their use.
https://www.google.ch/patents/US20090035396?hl=de
The present invention relates to a novel reference plant, a method for producing a novel reference plant, extracts free of a medicinally active compound or group of compounds obtained therefrom and their use. More particularly, the novel reference plant is a plant derived from a comparator plant. In an exemplifying embodiment the medicinal compounds, which are "knocked out", are one or more cannabinoids and the plant is cannabis, Cannabis sativa, plant.
Using your words: "You are mistaken. Imagine that."
BTW I never said GW Pharm used GMO cannabis for breeding...lol. Imagine that! You reading words that were never written.
BTW...this 2014 article is a good read--
The Connection Between The Legalization Of Marijuana In Uruguay, Monsanto And George Soros
March 2, 2014
By William Engdahl
This year, Uruguay, after a vote by the Parliament became the first country in the world to legalize the cultivation, sale and consumption of marijuana. Cannabis users can buy a maximum of 40 grams per month, provided they are Uruguayan citizens of at least 18 years old and registered in a public database. Their consumption is monitored by means of the quantity they buy per month in specially licensed pharmacies. Less well known is what the seed and genetic engineering giant Monsanto is doing to develop patented cannabis plants, and what has been the role of billionaire speculator George Soros.
Citizens of Uruguay may in the future every year grow six marijuana plants in their garden or in their home. These plants yield approximately 480 grams. They can also become a member of clubs, which may grow up to 99 plants per year. The step of the President goes back to the billionaire speculator George Soros. Less is known that Monsanto is already quietly at work to patent a genetically modified cannabis plant in Uruguay.
The role of George Soros
The U.S. billionaire speculator George Soros and the non-governmental organization whose board he belongs to, have played a pivotal role in that marijuana has been legalized in Uruguay. Apparently it’s part of a much larger global project. Soros sits on the board of the New York-based Drug Policy Alliance [DPA Drug Policy Alliance], the world’s most influential organization for legalization. His Open Society Foundation is listed as a major financial supporter. In the most recent Annual Report of 2013, the chairman of the Drug Policy Alliance boasted : “In Uruguay we played a crucial role, as we helped a public education campaign to coordinate. There was a close collaboration with government officials, activists, journalists and others, including President José Mujica whom I met with personally. ”
In fact, the President had privately in New York met with Soros, just before he was able to win the Senate for approval of the legalization law proposed by him. Soros and the DPA are active in Uruguay and other Latin American countries.
His Open Society invested $ 34 million last year,, of which nearly 3.5 million for the legalization of marijuana. In Uruguay, they funded the organization Regulación Responsable or “Responsible Control” that advertised with a nationwide campaign on television. Needless to say they were successfull.
Soros is also an important shareholder of Monsanto, the world’s largest producer of genetically modified seeds. And here it gets interesting.
Monsanto and Gencannabis?
Studies show that Monsanto without much fanfare conducts research projects on the active ingredient in marijuana, namely THC (tetrahydrocannabinol), in order to genetically manipulate the plant. David Watson of the Dutch company Hortapharm has since 1990 created the world’s largest collection of Cannabis seed varieties. In 1998, the British firm GW Pharmaceuticals signed an agreement with Hortapharm that gives GW Pharma the rights to use the Hortapharm cannabis for their research.
In 2003 the German Bayer AG then signed an agreement with GW Pharmaceuticals for joint research on a cannabis-based extract. In 2007, Bayer AG agreed to an exchange of technology with … Monsanto, both according to exchange the results of their research. Thus Monsanto has discreet access to the work of the cannabis plant and its genetic modification. In 2009 GW Pharmaceuticals announced that it had succeeded in genetically altering a cannabis plant and patented a new breed of cannabis .
Since the cultivation of cannabis plants in Uruguay is allowed, one can easily imagine that Monsanto sees a huge new market that the Group is able to control just with patented cannabis seeds such as today is happening on the market for soybeans. Uruguay’s President Mujica has made it clear he wants a unique genetic code for cannabis in his country in order to “keep the black market under control.”
Genetically modified cannabis seeds from Monsanto would grant such control. For decades Monsanto has been growing gene-soybean and GM maize in Uruguay too. George Soros is co-owner of agribusinesses Adecoagro, that planted genetically modified soybeans and sunflowers for biofuel.
Apparently for the powerful interests behind the legalization of marijuana in Uruguay it is about far more than they let us know.
http://www.encod.org/info/The-Connection-Between-The.html
The Connection Between The Legalization Of Marijuana In Uruguay, Monsanto And George Soros
March 2, 2014
By William Engdahl
This year, Uruguay, after a vote by the Parliament became the first country in the world to legalize the cultivation, sale and consumption of marijuana. Cannabis users can buy a maximum of 40 grams per month, provided they are Uruguayan citizens of at least 18 years old and registered in a public database. Their consumption is monitored by means of the quantity they buy per month in specially licensed pharmacies. Less well known is what the seed and genetic engineering giant Monsanto is doing to develop patented cannabis plants, and what has been the role of billionaire speculator George Soros.
Citizens of Uruguay may in the future every year grow six marijuana plants in their garden or in their home. These plants yield approximately 480 grams. They can also become a member of clubs, which may grow up to 99 plants per year. The step of the President goes back to the billionaire speculator George Soros. Less is known that Monsanto is already quietly at work to patent a genetically modified cannabis plant in Uruguay.
The role of George Soros
The U.S. billionaire speculator George Soros and the non-governmental organization whose board he belongs to, have played a pivotal role in that marijuana has been legalized in Uruguay. Apparently it’s part of a much larger global project. Soros sits on the board of the New York-based Drug Policy Alliance [DPA Drug Policy Alliance], the world’s most influential organization for legalization. His Open Society Foundation is listed as a major financial supporter. In the most recent Annual Report of 2013, the chairman of the Drug Policy Alliance boasted : “In Uruguay we played a crucial role, as we helped a public education campaign to coordinate. There was a close collaboration with government officials, activists, journalists and others, including President José Mujica whom I met with personally. ”
In fact, the President had privately in New York met with Soros, just before he was able to win the Senate for approval of the legalization law proposed by him. Soros and the DPA are active in Uruguay and other Latin American countries.
His Open Society invested $ 34 million last year,, of which nearly 3.5 million for the legalization of marijuana. In Uruguay, they funded the organization Regulación Responsable or “Responsible Control” that advertised with a nationwide campaign on television. Needless to say they were successfull.
Soros is also an important shareholder of Monsanto, the world’s largest producer of genetically modified seeds. And here it gets interesting.
Monsanto and Gencannabis?
Studies show that Monsanto without much fanfare conducts research projects on the active ingredient in marijuana, namely THC (tetrahydrocannabinol), in order to genetically manipulate the plant. David Watson of the Dutch company Hortapharm has since 1990 created the world’s largest collection of Cannabis seed varieties. In 1998, the British firm GW Pharmaceuticals signed an agreement with Hortapharm that gives GW Pharma the rights to use the Hortapharm cannabis for their research.
In 2003 the German Bayer AG then signed an agreement with GW Pharmaceuticals for joint research on a cannabis-based extract. In 2007, Bayer AG agreed to an exchange of technology with … Monsanto, both according to exchange the results of their research. Thus Monsanto has discreet access to the work of the cannabis plant and its genetic modification. In 2009 GW Pharmaceuticals announced that it had succeeded in genetically altering a cannabis plant and patented a new breed of cannabis .
Since the cultivation of cannabis plants in Uruguay is allowed, one can easily imagine that Monsanto sees a huge new market that the Group is able to control just with patented cannabis seeds such as today is happening on the market for soybeans. Uruguay’s President Mujica has made it clear he wants a unique genetic code for cannabis in his country in order to “keep the black market under control.”
Genetically modified cannabis seeds from Monsanto would grant such control. For decades Monsanto has been growing gene-soybean and GM maize in Uruguay too. George Soros is co-owner of agribusinesses Adecoagro, that planted genetically modified soybeans and sunflowers for biofuel.
Apparently for the powerful interests behind the legalization of marijuana in Uruguay it is about far more than they let us know.
http://www.encod.org/info/The-Connection-Between-The.html
This is not GMO this is classical breeding. They did not knock out any genes they found plants that were that way and used them in a classical breeding program. Every plant man grows has been bred using classical breeding or am I missing something?
-SamS
You did say: GW Pharm announced it had succeeded in genetically altering a cannabis plant and patented a new breed of cannabis. Imagine that.
-SamS
You did say: GW Pharm announced it had succeeded in genetically altering a cannabis plant and patented a new breed of cannabis. Imagine that.
Last edited:
Funny you think the article is a good read, have you heard of Fake News?
William Engdahl is not a real writer, he is a hack, the story is full of lies, plain and simple. He has also been a long-time associate of the LaRouche movement and has written many articles for their publications.
Engdahl stated in 2007 that he had come to believe that petroleum is not biological in origin, which is the theory supported by the majority of petroleum geologists and engineers worldwide.
Engdahl argued that the problem with global warming is much exaggerated is merely a "scare"
There is no GMO Cannabis patent by Monsanto anywhere in the world, list the Country and patent number if you can. (you can't) There is no GMO Cannabis being grown and sold in Uruguay or any where, if you think so where?
-SamS
William Engdahl is not a real writer, he is a hack, the story is full of lies, plain and simple. He has also been a long-time associate of the LaRouche movement and has written many articles for their publications.
Engdahl stated in 2007 that he had come to believe that petroleum is not biological in origin, which is the theory supported by the majority of petroleum geologists and engineers worldwide.
Engdahl argued that the problem with global warming is much exaggerated is merely a "scare"
There is no GMO Cannabis patent by Monsanto anywhere in the world, list the Country and patent number if you can. (you can't) There is no GMO Cannabis being grown and sold in Uruguay or any where, if you think so where?
-SamS
Sam, saying shit does not make it a fact....that we both agree on.
Rather than spend an inordinate amount of time doing your research--let's take a peek at GW Pharma's current website.
https://www.gwpharm.com/plant-breeding-cultivation
Plant Breeding & Cultivation
Since 1998, GW has been licensed by the UK Home Office to cultivate cannabis plants for medical use. GW's team includes leading experts in cannabis breeding, developing new, proprietary chemotypes that will produce the raw material bases for future pharmaceutical research.
GW's team includes experts in Cannabis breeding. In the genetic model used, the cannabinoid content of each chemical phenotype (chemotype) is controlled by four independent loci. By manipulating the genes at these four positions, our scientists can precisely control the cannabinoid composition of a plant.
Selected seedlings are maintained as clones. Clones are genetically identical, thus ensuring that the ratio of plant constituents is fixed within narrow limits. Clonal propagation does not involve genetic modification.
GW's cannabis plants are grown in highly secure glasshouses. All key aspects of the growing climate are controlled and the plants are grown without the use of pesticides. Careful control of the growing environment ensures that GW’s plant material is grown to very strict pharmaceutical standards and that growth is phased to ensure continuity of supply.
Cultivation capability has been increased to cater both for commercial supply of our first product Sativex®, our lead product candidate Epidiolex®, and research quantities of novel chemotypes for the production of other medicines. High levels of chemical consistency are important in applications made to medical regulatory authorities. Routine laboratory analysis demonstrates that GW’s botanical raw materials meet strict specifications of quality.
Hmmmm....you said, "GW uses classical plant breeding not GMO, check your "facts"."....and GW says, "By manipulating the genes at these four positions, our scientists can precisely control the cannabinoid composition of a plant." Who is right?
Anyone out there believe "manipulating the genes at these four locations..." is "classical plant breeding"?
Sorry, man--but this all goes back to Etienne De Meijer's research (inventor identified on the patent).
Rather than spend an inordinate amount of time doing your research--let's take a peek at GW Pharma's current website.
https://www.gwpharm.com/plant-breeding-cultivation
Plant Breeding & Cultivation
Since 1998, GW has been licensed by the UK Home Office to cultivate cannabis plants for medical use. GW's team includes leading experts in cannabis breeding, developing new, proprietary chemotypes that will produce the raw material bases for future pharmaceutical research.
GW's team includes experts in Cannabis breeding. In the genetic model used, the cannabinoid content of each chemical phenotype (chemotype) is controlled by four independent loci. By manipulating the genes at these four positions, our scientists can precisely control the cannabinoid composition of a plant.
Selected seedlings are maintained as clones. Clones are genetically identical, thus ensuring that the ratio of plant constituents is fixed within narrow limits. Clonal propagation does not involve genetic modification.
GW's cannabis plants are grown in highly secure glasshouses. All key aspects of the growing climate are controlled and the plants are grown without the use of pesticides. Careful control of the growing environment ensures that GW’s plant material is grown to very strict pharmaceutical standards and that growth is phased to ensure continuity of supply.
Cultivation capability has been increased to cater both for commercial supply of our first product Sativex®, our lead product candidate Epidiolex®, and research quantities of novel chemotypes for the production of other medicines. High levels of chemical consistency are important in applications made to medical regulatory authorities. Routine laboratory analysis demonstrates that GW’s botanical raw materials meet strict specifications of quality.
Hmmmm....you said, "GW uses classical plant breeding not GMO, check your "facts"."....and GW says, "By manipulating the genes at these four positions, our scientists can precisely control the cannabinoid composition of a plant." Who is right?
Anyone out there believe "manipulating the genes at these four locations..." is "classical plant breeding"?
Sorry, man--but this all goes back to Etienne De Meijer's research (inventor identified on the patent).
Doc, it still is not introducing genes from another species in order to protect the plant from pesticides. It is an advance over field selection of the best parent plants. It is an advance from the techniques that demonstrate hybrid vigor in corn or other plants but it is not GMO as I understand the term.
I don’t know Doc, I don’t necessarily construe that as genetic engineering in the GMO sense. Genes can be manipulated with traditional breeding techniques.
weedaholic721
Member
Most define GMO as organisms produced with some form of transgenics which is the addition of genes from outside the target organism. More recently, gene knockouts have become much more common, especially with the invention of the CRISPR techniques.
This is not what GW is doing.
Conventional breeding techniques are combined with DNA analysis techniques to determine which trait comes from which genes. Breeders use this information to better select crosses for their ideal traits. This is just a more selective form of selective breeding which goes back to atleast Gregor Mendel and his peas.
Traditional Breeding techniques can be used with analysis of cannabinoid content to breed plants that contain mostly a single target cannabinoind, i.e CBD-only, THCV-only. This is a harder route given modern techniques, but it has been done, even by members in this very thread.
This is not what GW is doing.
Conventional breeding techniques are combined with DNA analysis techniques to determine which trait comes from which genes. Breeders use this information to better select crosses for their ideal traits. This is just a more selective form of selective breeding which goes back to atleast Gregor Mendel and his peas.
Traditional Breeding techniques can be used with analysis of cannabinoid content to breed plants that contain mostly a single target cannabinoind, i.e CBD-only, THCV-only. This is a harder route given modern techniques, but it has been done, even by members in this very thread.
Last edited:
Activists should monitor their activities, employees and their assets. We dont have enough informations so all we can do is speculate.
Btw synergy is 1+1=3 and monsanto profits are droping like stone. 66 billion $ what Bayer paid for them will cost them dearly..I would speculate on drop of Bayer stocks-common thing with merges with synergies never to come
only valuable asset is maybe their R&D section.
We should ask Doc what to do with them, only proper word I can remember is Vorkuta
Lovely place to stay for their best RD sectors http://www.thegulag.org/photos/vorkuta
Btw synergy is 1+1=3 and monsanto profits are droping like stone. 66 billion $ what Bayer paid for them will cost them dearly..I would speculate on drop of Bayer stocks-common thing with merges with synergies never to come
only valuable asset is maybe their R&D section.We should ask Doc what to do with them, only proper word I can remember is Vorkuta
Lovely place to stay for their best RD sectors
http://www.thegulag.org/photos/vorkuta
Last edited:
With consolidations in the industry (Dow/DuPont, Syngenta/ChemChina, etc) there will be pressure on pricing and margins overall. Bayer/Monsanto is not a bad match in regards to what each brings to the table. Monsanto has a large catalog of seed/genetics compared to Bayer and their herbicide sector is almost double that of Bayer. Bayer has a much stronger presence in the pesticide/fungicide sector than Monsanto. Also the market presence of both is relatively different with Monsanto being more dominant in North America and Bayer is strong in the other world markets. I remember some figures for North America and it accounted for ~70% of Monsanto’s revenues compared to ~25% for Bayer’s Grow Science division.
Each sector from each company has its own R&D so much value could be realized when those assets are shared.
Bayer did pay a premium for Monsanto but with the consolidation going on in the industry it was almost a necessary deal for both companies. Time will tell.
By the way I’m not a big fan of Monsanto or big biz for that matter, I just follow what goes on in the Ag biz.
Each sector from each company has its own R&D so much value could be realized when those assets are shared.
Bayer did pay a premium for Monsanto but with the consolidation going on in the industry it was almost a necessary deal for both companies. Time will tell.
By the way I’m not a big fan of Monsanto or big biz for that matter, I just follow what goes on in the Ag biz.
Really? According to you? They use classical breeding, period. You are confused...
-SamS
- Status
