Basements are the Best! wtfn strikes again

[whythefnot]

I'm up to my old tricks again. It's been almost a year and a half since I left California, and it has taken me this long to get into a place where I can cut loose a little.
I found myself a house with a basement, and what a basement it is. I've never had a grow room that didn't require a massive a/c, dehumidifier, and a close eye on the environment lest it get out of control. But here, with the combination of a very large basement to provide plenty of air to exchange, and the fact that I'm running less than 1000w of lighting, and the mild temperatures we have here in the mountains, all I really need is a small 200-300 cfm fan to clear out the 5x5 tent and a couple of controllers to keep things in check. The basement has a dehumi installed already, and I have a small humidifier on the floor in the tent just in case things get out of line.
I've put about 12 hours of work into this project total so far. Not too shabby for what I consider to be my most stable grow space yet.

The specs:


2x400w hps

5ftx5ftx7ft high tent

2:1 FFOF x FF Light Warrior
compost tea/tap water

Seeds from purple platinum harvest 2 years ago -- herm seeds, so we'll be rolling the dice
Fabric pots, still my from my last grow.

I'm waiting on a carbon filter and larger vent fan I have coming in the mail before I start flowering. I'd also like to take some cuttings before flower, and I have a cloning tray and heating mat on order as well.

I had some issues with high ph that I had a really tough time diagnosing. I guess my well water is super duper hard and alkaline. This soil pH meter sucks apparently, it usually just says 7 no matter what. I have a ph and tds/ec meter coming in the mail as well, and I already got my ph up and ph down, but in a pinch I was able to successfully use 20,000mg pure vitamin C crystals in 2.5gal tap water (pH ~6.7) sometime last week and they have greened back up in a very big way. Normally I wouldn't just give it a shot in the dark like that but this time I'm very glad I did.


I almost forgot the best part. I'm going to be doing some experiments with simple sensors for temp, humidity, maybe co2, etc. that are capable of interfacing with an arduino so I can program some of the more complex logic I'd like my grow to be capable of. My coding skills had never been there in the past but ... if you had been wondering what I've been up to in the last year and a half, it has been balls-to-the-wall skill-building and it looks like a pretty easy task at this point, provided I can get through the crash course in breadboarding. Arduino and simple controllers are next up on my shopping list.

I think I can have my room fully controlled for about $100 plus an old laptop I have running a linux cli, although I may find I'm way off base on that dollar figure. Either way, I'll be detailing it all here in this thread and open-sourcing whatever code I write to make it happen .

So stay tuned for that!

 

[iTarzan]

This should be interesting. Still a legal state?

 

[whythefnot]

This should be interesting. Still a legal state?

...

 

[whythefnot]

Got pH/tds meters in today. Tap water is actually pretty good ... about 6.8 and 64 ppm. So no problems there. But my plants are showing the first signs of beginning to suffer again after making a strong comeback, so I checked the runoff from distilled water, and it was ~7.5 at roughly 220 ppm!
I mixed up 3 gal of ~600ppm ph up/down solution buffered at ~6.15. It is time-releasing into the pots right now. I'll keep going until all 3 gal has been dispensed between the 8 plants. Maybe they're in for a flush in the next few days, I don't know. We'll see how this plays out.

I have no idea what's causing it to run so high. My soil is 2 parts ocean forest, 1 part light warrior, with a few Tbsp blood meal and about a dozen pellets of seabird guano mixed into each 4gal pot. That's it, nothing fancy. This looks like what was happening to my plants in California, too. Good to finally know.

 

[Phases]

I hate dealing with ph problems it's such a pain in the ass to fix sometimes. I had super low ph in both my promix and coco this run. I used some dolomite lime to bring it up but it took a good week or 2 before things got back to where they should be.
Just be sure to gradually bring it down don't wanna go from really high ph to low ph super quick. The girls hate that!
Good luck I ll tag alone see how she goes for ya -

 

[whythefnot]

I was just reading that foxfarm generally comes buffered at ph 7 - 7.5, sometimes as high as 8. Seems crazy. I'll probably switch to a local brand next time I buy if I don't build it myself. For now I'll just stay the course by buffering their waterings and ph adjusting their compost tea, while monitoring the runoff.

 

[whythefnot]

the 6.15 solution had no immediate effect, and in fact the plants looked noticeably, albeit minorly, worse this morning. Runoff was still ~7.5. I checked the first batch of low ph solution with a good ph meter (remember I thought it was about 6.7) and it was actually around 3.5 and 220ppm. So I mixed up a small batch similar to that and dosed it out according to which plants looked like they were suffering.
I have a big pile of wood chips in my front yard I think I'm gonna bring into the mix. I didn't have time before work this morning, but tonight I'll test the ph on it and provided it's sufficiently low, I'll mulch my pots with it. I was planning on doing that anyway, but I've been kind of lazy about it.
I wish there was a quick fix for this. :\

 

[whythefnot]

Runoff from the wood mulch was ~ 7.2, so that's a no-go. But I rummaged around through the woods and collected about 5 gal of pine needles and pine bark. It was enough to mulch 5 of them, and I'll go back for the other 2 (and the little one) tomorrow.
I'm hoping my carbon filter and cloning tray get here tomorrow. I had a LEO stop by today asking about the neighbors. Scary stuff.

I checked runoff from the test plant and it was still really high so I took my tap solution down to pH 2.5, and watered everyone again pretty thoroughly, taking note of the pH of the runoff from each plant. Once I had them all in the 6.4 - 6.8 range, I called it a day. Let's hope that actually works.

When I hit them with the ~3.5 pH vitamin C mix they perked up within a few hours. They were dry then, but this time I think there's still just too much liquid still in their xylem, so it's just taking more time for them to transpire it all out. I really just want to get this all squared away so I can flip the lights on them. They're already as big as I'd care to let them get before flower. Gonna be a pretty full room.

 

[whythefnot]

Well, carbon filter and fan are installed.

Here's the worst-looking plant out of the bunch. Also the oldest, and slightly stunted from pH issues.

Here's the best-looking plant out of the bunch. She's been the most hardy through tough times.

Looks like it's about time to flower, don't you think?

 

[whythefnot]

I took 22 cuttings today, and labeled each plant and cutting with colored string, as well as doing a little more thinning.

Since the plants were getting dry, I decided to check the pH of their runoff just to be sure things were in place. It seems they must have stabilized because they were all in the range of 6.0 - 6.7. I gave them all a heavy watering/light flush to bring up the lower pH plants and generally clear out whatever salts were left behind from the pH stuff I had done in the past. I have a bucket of compost tea brewing right now. It's pH-ing at about 8.0 right now after a day of bubbling, so I'm not sure I really want to put it on my plants after what's been going on. I'm going to let it bubble for another day or two until the pH comes down into a more reasonable range.

I managed to rig my fan so it attaches to the ceiling support bars of the tent. The only thing left on the floor is a small humidifier, and I have a 5-disc fogging unit I plan to set up as an external humidity delivery system, similar to how I used it in my last grow. Until then that small fogger fits well in the corner. Next up, I'll need a cheap veg tent to get my clones up to speed.

I decided on the seeds I'm going to buy to try out during the next round.
Big Buddha Blue Cheese (provided that I positively determine that what I grew last year was, in fact, from Big Buddha, and not the Barney's version)
Blue Lemon Thai (the best producer from my outdoor gorilla run 3 years back)

That's it for now but I'm thinking Alaskan Thunderfuck and Belladonna will be coming around before too long, and I would have grabbed Blue Monster Holk but I'm already getting two strains with 'Blue' in the name and it would have just been weird. If I can ever get my hands on some GG #4 I'll let it dominate my space, but I have my skepticism about the seed version that was released recently. It's got to be hard to stabilize seeds that produce that kind of quality.

 

[whythefnot]

After 36 hours of bubbling, the tea pH was still stable at roughly 8.0. I decided to adjust it. I brought it down to about 7.1, and I'll monitor it throughout the rest of the day. If it continues to rise, I'll give it another day or two to see if it goes fungal, then toss the batch and do a fungal preparation of EWC before brewing.

 

[whythefnot]

I had a ballast/bulb go down yesterday, after their first period of 3 hours of dark. These are both donor ballasts and bulbs, and I have no idea what their history is, but after swapping bulbs and ballasts it appears that both the bulb and the ballast are bad. I even re-wired to another socket and changed cords, so I'm sure it's not a wiring issue. Both are digis. I don't know how this happens.

 

[expealadocious]

I know you're not asking for advice so dont be mad but I'd like to see your mamas happier...

Is that ph doing that though man???
The crinkle, twisting/ sideways hooking leaves are making me think theres either fungus gnats or root aphids in your soil. Something is definitely stressing them big time.
With the money you are dropping on meters & more importantly combined with the work and stress you could maybe spend like a hundred bucks on a RO faucet fixture and give them neutral water everytime to settle your woes and cut time chasing it all. Thatd even it all out and be long term water win. Thatd also clean up chlorine excess unwanted minerals etc.

Also,
Unless youre bin composting or putting some heat to your mixes, you might consider avoiding bringing buckets of soil from the woods into your spot. Unless youre running beneficial predators and/or bacterial/fungal biological controls, you're inviting a potential pest catastrophe... like 3 species of aphids, 2 microscopic mites kinda scene.. etc... haha

Good luck to ya man.

 

[whythefnot]

I know you're not asking for advice so dont be mad but I'd like to see your mamas happier...

Is that ph doing that though man???
The crinkle, twisting/ sideways hooking leaves are making me think theres either fungus gnats or root aphids in your soil. Something is definitely stressing them big time.
With the money you are dropping on meters & more importantly combined with the work and stress you could maybe spend like a hundred bucks on a RO faucet fixture and give them neutral water everytime to settle your woes and cut time chasing it all. Thatd even it all out and be long term water win. Thatd also clean up chlorine excess unwanted minerals etc.

Also,
Unless youre bin composting or putting some heat to your mixes, you might consider avoiding bringing buckets of soil from the woods into your spot. Unless youre running beneficial predators and/or bacterial/fungal biological controls, you're inviting a potential pest catastrophe... like 3 species of aphids, 2 microscopic mites kinda scene.. etc... haha

Good luck to ya man.

Yes, that crinkle is pH. The timing of it coincides perfectly with a period of high pH in the soil and the subsequent corrective swing I put them through. Remember, I put tap with pH'ed at 2.5 directly into the root zone. There has been absolutely no sign of fungus gnats (surprisingly) and unless root aphids came in on the Fox Farm, and have virtually no symptoms, I think we can rule that out as well. Remember, the stuff I added to the pots was in *response* to the symptoms you are referring to.

Good looking out, but you're certainly not telling me anything I don't already know. I now have my pH under control and everything is back on track. Those photos are from 4 days ago and most of the plants are back to their praying position already. I did a drastic thing adjusting their pH so heavily, but it seems to have worked, and curbed the symptoms of deficiency that were coming on, while causing a little leaf twist.

I didn't bring any soil into my grow from outside, only pine needles and bark. Yeah, sure, it will probably introduce more biodiversity into an already-diverse system, but I don't necessarily see that as a problem. I've grown plants in these hills, and they did quite well. And considering the circumstances I was presented, I stand by my choice. If I find any sign of infestation, I will post it here first.

This kind of thing happens when you rush into a new grow. There's always a lot to dial in. This time I guess it was my soil, or tea-brewing process. Seems strange, I know, but it's demonstrably true.

 

[whythefnot]

The pH of the compost tea rose back up to 7.5 yesterday afternoon. That was a little discouraging, but I let it brew overnight and it came down to ~6.8 by this morning, so I fed the ladies. They weren't quite ready for a watering since they just got a flush 2 days ago, but they were close enough for me. I didn't check individual runoff, but the aggregate was ~6.5 pH, so I think everything's looking pretty good for the near future of this grow. I'm going to give them a couple more days and flip the lights on them...
...once I get this damn ballast situation sorted out.

 

[hup234]

5x5 y u no 10x10 blow that basement up

 

[whythefnot]

5x5 y u no 10x10 blow that basement up

I'd love to, but that's not what my life is right now. I'm doing this so I and my friends can stop spending so much money to smoke, and for a few relatives I have who are very ill.
I went to California so I could grow a little larger with some peace of mind and allow myself the time to gain skills for the tech industry that I would not have been able to get while working an 8 - 5 job. That plan really worked out for me, and now I have a 'good' job (one that pays the bills at least), and I'm courting multiple opportunities for a better position.

I also have a small business that takes up the rest of my time (and pays very well) so a 5x5 is all I have time to maintain. I know from experience that if I up the ante from here, bad things will happen. I'm going to keep it reasonable and have way more bud than I'll ever smoke, hopefully 5x per year.

If all that isn't enough, the basement is large enough to completely control an environment of ~1000w without the need for an a/c. If I take it up from there I'll need to figure out how to cool stuff, and the whole thing will probably get away from me.

I had the rug pulled out from under me on a very large grow in Denver and I found myself back on the East Coast. I've been scraping by until recently, so I'm just spreading my wings.

Next week I'll be buying a small veg tent so I can really crank out this 5x5 for what she's worth.

TL;DR Rental house

 

[whythefnot]

Full recovery.

You can see how I turned my household fan into a ceiling-mount.

I'm gonna let them go until my other 2 ballast and 3 bulbs get here later this week before I flip the lights. By that time they'll be big enough to handle 1200w. Too bad I didn't go for 2x600 originally, but considering the first ballast was a freebie I guess it's not the worst thing in the world.

 

[Phases]

Nice. Looking like things turned right around for ya.

 

[whythefnot]

Nice. Looking like things turned right around for ya.

They sure have, should be very smooth sailing from here on out as long as I time my tea applications correctly. I just wish I had the light they crave now. I ordered 2x400w ballasts and 3x400w enhanced spectrum hps yesterday -- the first ballast should be here by Thursday.

My temps are just under 70 running just 1 light, because I have to run the vent fan (at a very low speed) or the humidity will skyrocket, and I'll have condensation all over the inside walls of the tent. The best that 1 400w light can do to warm up the tent is about 74 F, without any ventilation. I love having this problem, and not the other way around for the first time in my life, but it's still a problem.

I was going to buy another 400w anyway when I stumbled on this (now broken) ballast in storage, so in a way I'm glad I had the extra push to make a purchase. I should be able to clear 2lb with ease now, maybe even 2.5.


I'm planning on taking this thing up a notch and turning it into a vertical rack system. I guess I forgot to mention that at the start. I just want to keep it simple for this first run or two, and let that evolve naturally. If the arduino thing takes off first I might go back to aero with this garden, which is why I didn't mention organics in the thread title.