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Balancing Soil Minerals

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m_astera

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Michael, I did want to ask your opinion on application limits, Steve mentions 800 lbs / acre on nitrogen, even if using a slow release N source such as feather meal.. the problem is, if we have a C:N of about say 45:1, it would take years and years to achieve a ratio of 24:1, also the plants would most likely consume that amount and then some before the next test, i fell like you would be constantly depleting the N overtime.

Recently i have been adding however much feather meal it takes to achieve 24:1 for the top 6", and i till that in by hand. I then apply mycogenesis, as i apply it anytime i disturbed the soil surface. However i have noticed ammonia smell which is a sign of N loss, I'm thinking the reason the high carbon is not capturing all the N is the lack of O2 in the heavy amount of feather meal : soil in the top 6". Im considering using 10:1 feather meal : peat moss mix to amend into the soil to help aerate the mix I add, and with a 10:1 (weight:weight) the amendment should still have a 15:1 C:N. Any thoughts on this and application limits for other elements?

Humphrey D-

In my experience offgassing of ammonia N is an indicator of Sulfur deficiency, or an imbalanced S:N ratio. Methionine, cysteine, homocysteine, and taurine are the 4 common sulfur-containing amino acids. Soil organisms need adequate S to synthesize these. It's analogous to the C:N ratio: if there is excess Carbon in relation to Nitrogen, C will be offgassed as CO2 rather than incorporated into stable humus. If there is excess N in relation to C, ammonia will be offgassed, and this is especially true when S is deficient.

If the goal is to incorporate N into humus and as ammonium NH4+ on cation exchange sites, and to stabilize soil Carbon levels, all three elements must be available and in balance. (as a side note, isn't it strange that the people railing about carbon sequestration are unaware of the importance of S to stabilize Carbon?)

Steve mentions 800 lbs / acre on nitrogen, even if using a slow release N source such as feather meal.. the problem is, if we have a C:N of about say 45:1, it would take years and years to achieve a ratio of 24:1, also the plants would most likely consume that amount and then some before the next test, i fell like you would be constantly depleting the N overtime.
I was not aware that Steve Solomon was recommending up to 800 lbs/acre of N. To me that is dangerously high and wasteful. I have never recommend more than 200 lbs/acre of added N, and my general recommendation is 100 lbs per acre. Any further N needed should be readily supplied by breakdown of existing organic matter or by microbial fixing of atmospheric N during the growing season.

The problem I see here is not taking the existing soil N reserves into account. The usual assumption is that soil organic matter SOM (as stable humus) contains 5%N by weight. If the soil has 5% organic matter, the top 2 million pounds of soil would theoretically contain 100 thousand pounds of organic matter and 5 thousand pounds of N.

Sphagnum peat moss is rather low in N, averaging 0.4 to 1.6%N source but many other sources of organic matter are much higher. A metric ton (1000 kg) of peat moss at 1%N will contain 10 kg of N. With a C:N ratio of 58:1 pure peat would need another 19 kg of N per 1000kg to achieve a 20:1 C:N ratio. This is assuming that only peat is being used and there are no other sources of N present or added to the mix and no N fixing activity by microbes. This is also assuming that one is planning to beak down (e.g. compost) all of the peat rapidly. Otherwise a 40:1 or 50:1 ratio of C:N should work fine.


Was also curious on your thoughts of using biomin chelated products for amending? I use them only when I see there could be an antagonism associated with using the elements sulfate form. For instance, if i have very high P, i will use biomin Fe over iron sulfate. I'm just curious as to how long the element stays chelated in the soil solution. If it was to stay chelated for long periods, i would fear the concentration of that element in the soil solution would be very high. Im willing to bet with a biologically active soil, the chelate is short lived as I believe they use those organic acids as a food source considering its N content. However ill be the first to acknowledge biology is not my field of expertise, so i leave those questions to whomever feels qualified to answer them.
I have not used chelated minerals mostly because I've never felt the need for them and also because of the expense. Soil biology chelates minerals quite well as they are absorbed by and made a part of the bodies of the microbes etc. In addition it is my understanding that most plants have the ability to absorb mineral nutrients in ionic form from the soil solution or from exchange sites. Probably the only reason I could see for using chelated minerals would be as a foliar or root drench if the crop had a serious deficiency because the needed mineral was not present in adequate amounts in the soil, and there was no other practical method of getting it to the plant in time to save the crop.

I don't understand the reluctance to use sulfates because of the "very high P". P is not usually soluble as it reacts so quickly with any available cation, and if Ca is present in proper amounts P will likely be found as Calcium phosphate forms. In high Ca soils I will often recommend a Sulfur level equal to the "ideal" Phosphorus level just to keep the P more available.

Ive been recently using saturated paste tests along with the standard soil test and have found some interesting things.

Before i dive into those findings, I have been using Logan Lab's agronomist's recommendations for saturated tests, i was finding that my results far exceeded his recommendations but the standard test did not show any significant excesses. Upon discussing this with the agronomist, he stated that those numbers should be considered minimums and that they may not even be adequate to support large plants. Ultimately I'm current working on determining targets for saturated tests with tissue testing and what little sap analysis meters i have (pH,EC,K,Brix).

I originally was following your Ideal Soil recommendations but found certain elements were testing at very low levels on the paste test when they showed they were adequate on the adjusted soil density lab results according to your recommendations.

Zinc is one, I've seen the 10:1 ratio mentioned a lot for P:Zn, however at this ratio I'm not getting adequate Zn showing up on the saturated tests. [
I covered my thoughts on the paste test in my previous post in this thread; I'll only add that Zn is not very soluble in plain water at pH7.

Hugh Lovel mentions the 10:1 ratio but he also is referencing a total soil test and from my understanding, the P levels are the only element that show a large difference between M3 and total testing with total testing showing more P. Therefore i believe a lower ratio of P:Zn needs to be targeted when using M3.
I've heard about huge amounts of P reserves showing up on total digest tests (e.g. aqua regia), while showing as deficient on "standard" soil tests, from Hugh Lovel and several others. While I believe that could be the case if a Morgan or Ammonium Acetate test was used, I don't see it happening with an M3 test at pH 2.5. The Mehlich 3 extractant is made up of acetic acid, ammonium nitrate, ammonium fluoride, nitric acid and EDTA-H4. The M3 test was developed to extract the maximum amount of P possible short of a complete digest.

I also stopped using the ppm limits on micro's. I have simply been using ratios of elements to elements for targets. Reason being is when using a high CEC, i was constantly hitting the limit on micros and found them short in the soluble tests.
The Ideal Soil chart limits on secondary and micro elements are only there for a caution; there is no reason they cannot be exceeded if the technician sees reason to do so. They may need to be considerably higher in calcareous and high pH soils.

Recently I made recommendations for a limestone soil from the Bahamas with a pH of 7.9. The M3 test showed 11,925 ppm Ca, the AA8.2 test 1106 ppm Ca. M3 estimated CEC was 66.10 meq, AA8.2 was 7.31 meq. If the AA8.2 CEC estimate was used one could easily end up with many elements deficient because the excessive Ca would overwhelm them. What I ended up recommending was to raise the numbers to 234ppm K, 117ppm Fe, 59ppm Mn, 11.7ppm Cu, 23.4ppm Zn, and 3ppm B, which would be about right for a soil with a CEC of 15 meq. Any high-pH calcareous soil will also need a good level of microbial activity.

I dismissed Steve Solomans K recommendations, because with our high CEC, he would have K around 1%. However he recommended P=K, and I still use his formula which involves a log function of CEC to determine my P target. For my soils it generally ends up being around 600-700 ppm elemental P (remember that is with soil density factored, not the labs initial results). The equation is, (LN(TCEC)*159.3)-39.25.
At the time Steve Solomon wrote The Intelligent Gardener he had never written a single soil Rx and followed through on it. His entire practical experience came from using an Rx I wrote for him after telling him which test to get and sending him to an Australian lab to have it done. His knowledge base on balancing minerals came from reading the 2010 edition of The Ideal Soil and whatever else he picked up online. The same goes for his co-author Erica Reinheimer: her entire experience came from applying the recommendations she hired me to write for her California garden. I wouldn't rely on anything either of them speculated about during the production of their book.
 

orechron

Member
Sphagnum peat moss is rather low in N, averaging 0.4 to 1.6%N source but many other sources of organic matter are much higher. A metric ton (1000 kg) of peat moss at 1%N will contain 10 kg of N. With a C:N ratio of 58:1 pure peat would need another 19 kg of N per 1000kg to achieve a 20:1 C:N ratio. This is assuming that only peat is being used and there are no other sources of N present or added to the mix and no N fixing activity by microbes. This is also assuming that one is planning to beak down (e.g. compost) all of the peat rapidly. Otherwise a 40:1 or 50:1 ratio of C:N should work fine.

I'm growing in a peat dominant mix with approximately 40% organic matter. The last run with it showed plants deficient in N, so I amended with ammonium sulfate (also helped with excess cations) and alfalfa to bring the C:N close to 30:1. Well, I got it there and the plants growing in this media have 6-7000ppm NO3- in their sap. Tissue Mg is .5% and Mo is at 1.6 ppm and sap pH is still 6.4-6.5 but there are definitely signs of excess N in the leaves and elongated, weaker stems.

At the time Steve Solomon wrote The Intelligent Gardener he had never written a single soil Rx and followed through on it. His entire practical experience came from using an Rx I wrote for him after telling him which test to get and sending him to an Australian lab to have it done. His knowledge base on balancing minerals came from reading the 2010 edition of The Ideal Soil and whatever else he picked up online. The same goes for his co-author Erica Reinheimer: her entire experience came from applying the recommendations she hired me to write for her California garden. I wouldn't rely on anything either of them speculated about during the production of their book.

Wow, thanks for that info. I've used Reinheimer's organicalc program in the past.

Welcome back Sir. Happy holidays.
 

milkyjoe

Senior Member
Veteran
The c:n ratio fascinates me. Lets say 40:1 is where you want to be

Now the question becomes how to get there. The goal has to be to prevent forming a lot of nitrate...in a very highly oxygenated environment

For sure you gotta go slow...but beyond that??? I am leaning toward Ferti Nitro. 80% aminos and peptides. Should cause a microbe explosion. And once N is in microbes it is protected from oxidation

Just have to worry about bacterial mineralization...so go slow

But that ain't fact...just my guess right now

Edit...talking about peat based mixes
 

Microbeman

The Logical Gardener
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I have not used chelated minerals mostly because I've never felt the need for them and also because of the expense. Soil biology chelates minerals quite well as they are absorbed by and made a part of the bodies of the microbes etc.

Thank you. I share this thought pattern.
PS. I'm still looking for the disappeared PDF.
 

m_astera

Member
Veteran
Spreadsheets for Calculating Soil Minerals

Spreadsheets for Calculating Soil Minerals

orechon-

Merry Christmas and happy holidays to you too, and to everyone here at ICMag forum.

Many people have sent me versions of spreadsheets they have created to calculate soil minerals based on the Ideal Soil chart and ratios. At one point I even started working on one myself, with the help of a spreadsheet pro. After spending $1500 plus countless hours of my own time I gave it up. The problem is that there are too many variables and too much need for judgment, experience and intuition to make a spreadsheet work for any but a portion of the soils one encounters.

*If* the soil is between pH 5 and pH 6.5, does not contain free undissolved Ca and Mg carbonates, has a CEC of 20 or less, and is not above 20% organic matter, a spreadsheet can work, especially if it has been drawn up by someone with experience in soil balancing. Outside those parameters, it is just a rough guess and often not a very good one.

I've been studying soil mineral balance for over fifteen years and developed the Ideal Soil ratios that extended the concepts beyond Albrechts Ca:Mg:K ratios to include S, Na, B, Fe, Mn, Cu, and Zn. I don't pretend to have all of the answers and do my best to only write about and practice what I have proven to work.

I don't use a spreadsheet because I see no need for one; I think a new student should learn the concepts the long way so they are well understood, and anyone doing soil Rx's for others should take the time to work things through item by item so they go into the conscious and subconscious mind. A good part of the process is discovering the most elegant solution to the puzzle. At best a spreadsheet could reduce the work time by ten or fifteen minutes. What's the hurry? .

The opinions above are not meant to discourage anyone by making things seem more difficult or complicated, but scientific agronomy is not well suited to a simplistic, automated, or "for dummies" approach. Anyone reading this who has had excellent results in varied soils and growing media by using the spreadsheet approach is welcome to enlighten me.
 

xmobotx

ecks moe baw teeks
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Thank you. I share this thought pattern.
PS. I'm still looking for the disappeared PDF.

i knew i'd read that somewhere. glad you chimed in to share since mineralized soil is core to our living, no-till and recycle idealogies ~where we get those minerals from things such as basalt & glacier
 

m_astera

Member
Veteran
Recharging Grow Mixes

Recharging Grow Mixes

Back on p 14 of this thread, vitamingreeninc asked "So adding the ideal mineral mix kit to let's say 33% Peat, 33% perlite, 33% compost would be enough for a water only grow it seems like?

Also, another member asked about ordering the 5 lb bag and using it to recharge a grow mix.
~~~~

At s**********s.com we offer 2 mineralized blends, Agricola's Best and Agricola's 4-8-4. Agricola's Best is a minor and trace element amendment; it is not meant as a complete fertilizer.

********** is a complete fertilizer. We believe it is the best and most powerful organic slow release fertilizer ever made. Not meant to be a brag, but no expense was spared in this mix. A number of growers have been using it for years to recharge their container soils and as far as I know, needing little or nothing else.

As to using only 4-8-4 in a new peat mix, 4-8-4 is a little on the acid side, measuring pH 4.8 in a saturated solution. For new media I would suggest mixing it all up then testing the pH. If it is below pH 6.5, add enough high-Calcium ag lime to bring it to 6.5 or so, then add the 4-8-4 at 1/2 to 1 cup per cubic foot.

Also, if the media to be recharged is below pH 6.5, it could use some high-Ca ag lime as well.

Michael A
 
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Hi All-

The Ideal Soil v2.0 is available again on Amazon, and has always been available at s**********s.com

I had a major hassle with Amazon due to a volunteer "helper" sending the wrong book to a few people.They all got the right book as soon as we found out, but Amazon blocked the book and it turned out to be impossible to communicate with a human who could do anything at Amazon. I ended up changing the title from The Ideal Soil 2014 to The Ideal Soil v2.0. Same text, just a new ISBN #.

Michael A

Fantastic news! Now I have a real reason to not loan mine out!
 
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m_astera

Member
Veteran
Spectrum Extra

Spectrum Extra

A little spectrum extra and Na is no issue for long. It drops quickly

First I've heard of this, milkyjoe. Did a search and found it on Tainio's website

Quoting from the link above:
"Inevitably we are asked, where do the mineral salts go? To show that they do not just leach further into the ground, a container test was conducted, where there would be no way for the mineral salts to escape.

"Water was taken from an irrigation ditch, which was highly contaminated with mineral salts, and put into a barrel. Spectrum Extra™ was added, the water was aerated, and left for 60 days. This chart depicts the results.

"The microbes in Spectrum Extra™ digested and significantly reduced the salt levels, even in an enclosed container."

The bar graph shows reductions of
Na from 12 700ppm --> 8 111ppm
S from 13 437ppm --> 10 122ppm
B from 105ppm --> 76ppm

So what's actually going on? Are these sodium loving microbes that are metabolizing large amounts of Na and S and taking them out of solution? How long will that last? Until the microbes die? And what test was used to show the reduction?

I'm not arguing whether Spectrum Extra works or not, just wondering what's really going on here, and the product description is not answering that question.
 
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milkyjoe

Senior Member
Veteran
All I can say is I consistantly see it work...it isn't just sequestered in microbes cause Na does not "reappear" in the spring after frozen soil.

I have seen soil go from 3% to 0.5 in a grow and not go back up

Off the record you hear transmutation. On the record they do not say that word out loud.

I cannot make myself believe transmuation in spite of what I see. Ima have to go with magic
 

m_astera

Member
Veteran
Michael, I have small question regarding the Zn. I'm somewhat curious in regards to the toxicity Zn carries towards microorganisms. In both anaerobic and aerobic digesters I've seen a biological slow down @ 25-50-100 ppm respectively.

That said. How important is Zn within this discipline? I know you have it lower than the numbers I've seen and I've not tested at those levels (reasons I'll be calling some colleagues about)

It very well may be an acceptable trade off, and I'm ok with that. Thanks in advance, and great book so far sir. Bravo

The above quote from post 282 on p 19. Also in post 264 orechon writes about a conversation with Graeme Sait where Sait says he would not go above 10ppm Zinc.

Let me tackle Sait's claim first. There are highly productive soils in N California, from say Davis to Shasta, that test at 100 to over 400 ppm Zn on a Mehlich 3 test. Lots of growers have been producing good crops on these soils for many years.

I'll use a soil from Chico, CA as an example.
CEC 20 meq
P 340ppm (320ppm desired re Ideal Soil ratios)
Zn 105ppm (32ppm desired)
Cu 2.85ppm (16ppm desired)

My recommendation was to raise the Cu levels to 16ppm. Perhaps more Cu will be needed next year, but 2.5 lbs of CuSO4 per 1000 sq ft was all I thought prudent to add at one time, and the addition of that amount of soluble Cu should surely supply enough Cu for the growing season.

As to Zn killing microbes and primitive plants, yes both Cu and Zn are known for this; that's why moss doesn't grow below the leach line of Zinc galvanized flashings on a roof, and doesn't grow on Copper roofs at all. However, in the soil is a different situation. If all of the elements are somewhat in balance and in proper amounts, Nature is very skilled at making things work out. Any free Zn would quickly tie up with available P in this soil. Cu quickly becomes bonded to humus and organic matter.

Zinc is the intelligence mineral, the mineral of reproduction (long dormant seeds sprout when Zn is added to a soil), and arguably the dominant mineral element in immune systems. Zn is associated with at least 200 enzymatic processes in humans and an unknown number in plants. Mark Purdey showed that animals grazing on soils low in Zn and Cu were predisposed to mad cow disease and its variants like scrapie.

Who is suggesting an arbitrary number like 35ppm elemental P for all soils? Carey Reams recommended a *minimum* of 200 lbs/acre P2O5, which is 44ppm elemental Zn. This is with a Morgan extract test. I would guess that the correlation to an M3 test would be around 200ppm P, as the Morgan test is a very poor Zn extractor. Also worth mentioning Reams was growing in very low CEC sandy soils.

There is much fear and loathing of Phosphorus promoted by certain groups. One group tells us that P will kill or retard certain fungi. So what? The fungi doesn't grow because it is *not needed* in that soil. Another more mainstream attack claims that excess P will pollute waterways and promote algae growth, which it will. But how is that P getting into the waterways? Almost all because of erosion. Once applied to any soil with balanced base cations, even highly soluble P will quickly tie up with Ca and other bases. Why is erosion tolerated at all?

One further note, hollow stems are caused by P deficiency.
 

m_astera

Member
Veteran
Transmutation

Transmutation

All I can say is I consistantly see it work...it isn't just sequestered in microbes cause Na does not "reappear" in the spring after frozen soil.

I have seen soil go from 3% to 0.5 in a grow and not go back up

Off the record you hear transmutation. On the record they do not say that word out loud.

I cannot make myself believe transmuation in spite of what I see. Ima have to go with magic

I don't have any real problem with biological transmutation of elements, I've just never seen it demonstrated.

The only problem I would have is if the element entirely disappeared. Hypothetically one could add a proton to Na, atomic number 23, and get Mg, atomic number 24. Or add 3 protons to S and get Cl. So I would expect, in a closed system (like the barrel mentioned above), that if the element is being transmuted, another element will be produced that tested lower on the initial test.

Otherwise it must be magic. Which is OK too, I just want the evidence.
 

milkyjoe

Senior Member
Veteran
Theoretically it transmutes into K and a single H disappears.

You can make a nacl soln, test for na and k. Add spectrum extra and then (a couple weeks to work) measure reduced na and increade k.

Again...off the record...but easily testable
 

reppin2c

Well-known member
Veteran
Oh soil life and how it makes things closer.... not saying it makes things perfect as some organic soil followers will say. But I will eat this bomb ass char broil leftover ham heavy I sodium crust.
 

Mate Dave

Propagator
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I don't think cannabis cultivation is @ the cutting edge of nothing these days personally. It's not had to change. People choose to adapt techniques that suit input costs and locations. It's beautiful we can do this but cutting edge is more inline with the latest disease resistance and alternative fertilisers what is not done for marijuana per say. This is the biggest industry horticulture.

People working inside the John Innes centre and such are @ the cutting edge of development...
 

milkyjoe

Senior Member
Veteran
So I looked at a periodic table and I am wrong. It takes an H and C to get from Na to K. If Tainio isolated a microbe that does that it is impressive
 

orechron

Member
Thanks again for getting through all these questions.

The above quote from post 282 on p 19. Also in post 264 orechon writes about a conversation with Graeme Sait where Sait says he would not go above 10ppm Zinc.

Let me tackle Sait's claim first. There are highly productive soils in N California, from say Davis to Shasta, that test at 100 to over 400 ppm Zn on a Mehlich 3 test. Lots of growers have been producing good crops on these soils for many years.

I'll use a soil from Chico, CA as an example.
CEC 20 meq
P 340ppm (320ppm desired re Ideal Soil ratios)
Zn 105ppm (32ppm desired)
Cu 2.85ppm (16ppm desired)

My recommendation was to raise the Cu levels to 16ppm. Perhaps more Cu will be needed next year, but 2.5 lbs of CuSO4 per 1000 sq ft was all I thought prudent to add at one time, and the addition of that amount of soluble Cu should surely supply enough Cu for the growing season.

Do you by chance know what the Zn tissue numbers are for the crops with those 100-400ppm soils? I'm using a mix right now that has phosphate lbs/acre around 1800-2200 and Zn maxing out at 13ppm. The tissue analysis shows P at .57% and Zn at 35ppm.

As to Zn killing microbes and primitive plants, yes both Cu and Zn are known for this; that's why moss doesn't grow below the leach line of Zinc galvanized flashings on a roof, and doesn't grow on Copper roofs at all. However, in the soil is a different situation. If all of the elements are somewhat in balance and in proper amounts, Nature is very skilled at making things work out. Any free Zn would quickly tie up with available P in this soil. Cu quickly becomes bonded to humus and organic matter.

Zinc is the intelligence mineral, the mineral of reproduction (long dormant seeds sprout when Zn is added to a soil), and arguably the dominant mineral element in immune systems. Zn is associated with at least 200 enzymatic processes in humans and an unknown number in plants. Mark Purdey showed that animals grazing on soils low in Zn and Cu were predisposed to mad cow disease and its variants like scrapie.

Who is suggesting an arbitrary number like 35ppm elemental P for all soils? Carey Reams recommended a *minimum* of 200 lbs/acre P2O5, which is 44ppm elemental Zn. This is with a Morgan extract test. I would guess that the correlation to an M3 test would be around 200ppm P, as the Morgan test is a very poor Zn extractor. Also worth mentioning Reams was growing in very low CEC sandy soils.

There is much fear and loathing of Phosphorus promoted by certain groups. One group tells us that P will kill or retard certain fungi. So what? The fungi doesn't grow because it is *not needed* in that soil. Another more mainstream attack claims that excess P will pollute waterways and promote algae growth, which it will. But how is that P getting into the waterways? Almost all because of erosion. Once applied to any soil with balanced base cations, even highly soluble P will quickly tie up with Ca and other bases. Why is erosion tolerated at all?

I spoke with Sait about Phosphorus for maybe 10 minutes. Seems that only the reactive forms (P acid) are directly killing fungus. In other cases where there is high P that is tied up in organic matter, the plant has all it needs and "chooses" not to recruit mycorrhizal fungi. This is beneficial for the plant because the fungus wants sugar for the P trade but the plant is already getting it for nothing. I don't know if anyone knows the tipping point where plants stop recruiting. I'd like to.

I'm starting to lean more toward low P soils, specifically for outdoor plants. What worries me is that I don't know for sure that raising Zn in the soil to the point where I don't see a deficiency on the leaves won't antagonize uptake of other micros or even P. Vineyard soils for example sometimes have very high Cu from repeated spraying that it inhibits the uptake of a handful of other metals. From then on out the only way to deal with that problem is to foliar everything else that the plant can't get from the soil.

The other noteworthy thing is that fungi are the builders of humus that lasts a long time, longer than that found in bacterial dominated compost. Glomalin glued soil aggregates that prevent erosion.

In the outdoor soils I've used the past 4 years P2O5 was never below 500lbs/acre but tissue percentage was never above .3. I'm curious if amf inoculants in a soil with lower or even the same P levels could improve my tissue results.


One further note, hollow stems are caused by P deficiency.

Is it more important than Boron?
 
Mr. Astera

I just purchased your book, and stoked to dive in. Got the 2.0 off Amazon.

I also am stoked to find out you give recommendations from Logan labs.

I do have a question for you. In a above post you spoke about your 4-8-4 being the best of the best. If I added that to a 33%peat, 33%EWC, 33% pumic mix, and the little bit of lime you suggested earlier, that mix will compete with coots mix? Especially if I send over my soil samples before mixing in the nutes?

The soil mix from Rare Earth in Grass Valley has been by far my favorite cannabis mix ever. However Jami hasn't got back to me for over a month now, and I might move in a different direction. I am trying for 40 more yards this season. Thanks for your time.
 

xmobotx

ecks moe baw teeks
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I don't think cannabis cultivation is @ the cutting edge of nothing these days personally. It's not had to change. People choose to adapt techniques that suit input costs and locations. That beautiful we can do this but cutting edge os more inline with the latest disease resistance and alternative fertilisers what is not done for marijuana. This is the biggest industry horticulture.

People working inside the John Innes centre and such are @ the cutting edge of development...

i disagree. just as we look up/out to distant space, high or deep to the unexplored recesses of the world, the search in/down has a cutting edge which is micro-biology. & such as mapping the bio-genome

the quest for a correct biological environment is greater than what can be achieved in a sterile environment

this mineral balancing tech is something which has fallen out of favor at times but, there is something here as well

moreover, legalization is bringing about research opportunities into the medical application of cannabis. not the least of which is the properties of various cannabinoids & terpenes. this of course, for the medical benefits but also for those of us who value the drug properties

all three of these spearheads are in/down frontiers w/ cannabis holding a position of strong importance. the latter being entirely cannabis specific
 

Mate Dave

Propagator
ICMag Donor
Veteran
i disagree. just as we look up/out to distant space, high or deep to the unexplored recesses of the world, the search in/down has a cutting edge which is micro-biology. & such as mapping the bio-genome

the quest for a correct biological environment is greater than what can be achieved in a sterile environment

this mineral balancing tech is something which has fallen out of favor at times but, there is something here as well

moreover, legalization is bringing about research opportunities into the medical application of cannabis. not the least of which is the properties of various cannabinoids & terpenes. this of course, for the medical benefits but also for those of us who value the drug properties

all three of these spearheads are in/down frontiers w/ cannabis holding a position of strong importance. the latter being entirely cannabis specific

That don't make any sense? Please elaborate, also how are things are cultivated differently...
 
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