Autoflowering lines based on Auto Zamaldelica

[paisajedehierba]

This thread is about my way to develop autoflowering strains. Perhaps out there are some interested folks with the same intension. I want to enjoy tropical cannabis genetics … growing it outdoors and smoking it far away in northern climate.

After a few failed attempts with Muay Thai (auto/semi auto Thai dom. strain) Auto Zamaldelica (F3), available in ACE R&D section was a game changer (in late 2019). Experiencing the easiness to grow this strain, the resulting voluminous, resinous and tasty buds and last but not least the energetic, trippy and calm fading away effects was inspirational. At this time Zamaldelica standart was not available to me. So the first step was a cross of Auto Zam with a Zamaldelica x Ethiope male (also ACE R&D section). The F1 results were promising. Unfortunately the F2 step failed because of the fact that I only found hermi males.

The second attempt has leaded to a now full autoflowering line (Auto Zamaldelica x Golden Tiger third Thai dom version). In summer 2021 I`ve tested the F2 generation outdoors (guerilla style) in a very rainy summer. Despite smaller yield (Auto Zam yields higher) the results are good (intense spicy smelling, airy and at the same time hard buds with better mold resistance and a stimulating, psychedelic high, 90-100 days from seed to harvest).

My indoor space and equipment is short. I can only deal with a small number of plants at the same time. In two small cupboards and a third very small cupboard I am trying my luck. So there is possibility to have plants in growing and flowering stage a the same time and to isolate flowering males (at a rough level). It´s also possible to handle two different lines at the same time (selecting individuals, pollinating them, bringing them to next generation). It´s understood … my mission is top secret where I live.

This way I selected two Auto Zam x GT 3 (F3 auto) females and one male in autumn 2021.
- The larger clearly GT 3 leaning female was pollinated by the one GT 3 leaning male to generate AutoZam x GT 3 (F4) seeds.
- The pollen of this same male has been used to pollinate a Kali China female (hashy-mandarine smelling pheno with very dark green leaves) and
- ... a Golden Tiger second version (GT 2) female.
- The clearly Auto Zam leaning smaller female (of Auto Zam x GT 3 (F3 auto)) was pollinated by a Zamal A 75% male (pollen stored in the fridge).

At the moment I am running the crosses with Kali China and Zamal A 75% in F1 generation. I intend to post photos of the different lines from time to time. Not every thing is worse to be posted at this stage.

I am very interested in your thoughts to this kind of approach to develop autoflowering lines. Please feel free to post your experiences with auto crosses or the goals you have with them.

 

[rolandomota]

I Love it keep up the good work I will attempt my own auto breeding this year
I like this auto x photo approach to make auto regular seed in f2 f3,etc

and the fem auto x Male auto approach with the available Male high thc autos like from afterthought crossed to the many different auto fems available out their

My goal is a june to july harvest so i can have a photo period second crop starting in July from seed or with a head start a few months before in containers then transfer by July 1st when the autos finish

another goal is to breed Sativa dominant regular autos

Breed an auto freakshow or auto abc that would be cool I know it's been done with abc that subterfuge auto I think was fem?

 

[paisajedehierba]

Hi rolandomota,
thanks for chiming in. A june harvest would mean a start 2-3 month earlier (depending on the cross). Here at 49N this would not be possible (frost). I guess you are situated on the "peninsula" where early spring maybe is warm enough. Are you already running an autocross?

 

[paisajedehierba]

... the second line in F1 generation ... (AutoZam x GT 3 x (Zamal A 75%). I am looking for very good branched and intens smelling individuals. If I hit it lucky I will grow this line in F3 auto flowering version (along with KC x (AutoZam x GT 3) (F3 auto) in June 2022 outdoors. ... nevertheless everything step by step

 

[zaprjaques]

This is awesome !

 

[bonghopper]

Nice one paisajedehierba! Great to think of a project and someone's already on it. I'm trying out the Auto zamaldelica this year outdoors at 53n. Have tried out standard Zamaldelica a few years ago, but it's much too late and isn't cold tolerant enough to make anything worthwhile. The cross has the great potential to bring it into Sept/Oct harvest window.
I'm personally after the Carrot flavour and the effects it brings. You come across that smell?

 

[bonghopper]

I came across Alfemco's plans to release a Zamaldelica x UEL (Ultra Early Lovepotion) cross this April, could be worth a watch. Heard it on another forum, the u k 4 2 0 one. UEL is a lovely G13 x SMCG early strain. The SMCG selections are top notch for high and breeding, end Sept.

 

[paisajedehierba]

Nice one paisajedehierba! Great to think of a project and someone's already on it. I'm trying out the Auto zamaldelica this year outdoors at 53n. Have tried out standard Zamaldelica a few years ago, but it's much too late and isn't cold tolerant enough to make anything worthwhile. The cross has the great potential to bring it into Sept/Oct harvest window.
I'm personally after the Carrot flavour and the effects it brings. You come across that smell?

Good morning bonghopper,
I guess at 53 N you have a relatively late start growing outdoors (Mid May ... early June?). A September harvest window sounds realstic with most auto lines. I can imagine OT Haze leaning autos to mature until late october (germinating in May).

The smells ... To select towards specific smells is important to me already in F1. Only in F2 generation, in case of doubt, it´s more important to find healthy autoflowering males and females no matter how they smell (only every forth plant is autoflowering). The Zamaldelica mango carrott smell ... I want to capture it using Zamal A 75% and selecting towards those intense fruity stem rub smells. AutoZam x GT 3 is based on a Auto Zam mother with citric components to the smell that (for my taste) fit good to the Thai side of Auto Zam GT 3.

 

[aliceklar]

Great project. The Ace Auto Zam is perfect for making lines with long-flowering sativas. I've been thinking about doing something similar for a while. Have just reached f2 seeds in my first auto making experiment. Seems important to grow as many plants as you can - to have sufficient to select the very best, and with having to trash 75% of the plants in the F2 generation. I'm working with v small pots - doesnt matter if the plant doesnt max out a harvest - all you need is to make seeds, and have enough smokable bud to get an idea of terps and quality of smoke. Doesnt have to be a beautiful baby.

 

[bonghopper]

Great project. The Ace Auto Zam is perfect for making lines with long-flowering sativas. I've been thinking about doing something similar for a while. Have just reached f2 seeds in my first auto making experiment. Seems important to grow as many plants as you can - to have sufficient to select the very best, and with having to trash 75% of the plants in the F2 generation. I'm working with v small pots - doesnt matter if the plant doesnt max out a harvest - all you need is to make seeds, and have enough smokable bud to get an idea of terps and quality of smoke. Doesnt have to be a beautiful baby.

Aye, I like that about breeding, easy to get plenty of seed to look into even with a flower on a stick plant. It seems to be well worth sowing the most you can at F2 for selection. I dream of breeding Peaches with Almonds inside... they fruit in 2yrs from seed... a few hand pollinated crosses

 

[bonghopper]

Good morning bonghopper,
I guess at 53 N you have a relatively late start growing outdoors (Mid May ... early June?). A September harvest window sounds realstic with most auto lines. I can imagine OT Haze leaning autos to mature until late october (germinating in May).

The smells ... To select towards specific smells is important to me already in F1. Only in F2 generation, in case of doubt, it´s more important to find healthy autoflowering males and females no matter how they smell (only every forth plant is autoflowering). The Zamaldelica mango carrott smell ... I want to capture it using Zamal A 75% and selecting towards those intense fruity stem rub smells. AutoZam x GT 3 is based on a Auto Zam mother with citric components to the smell that (for my taste) fit good to the Thai side of Auto Zam GT 3.

Good evening paisajedehierba,
Can start in mid Feb in polytunels under natural light without much protection for potted up monsters if needed, but mid-march to mid april is more usual with an early/mid May plantout. Use tree plugs for these and no potting up. Late Oct is as late as it goes for anything decent here. Coastal Eire, we've barely had a winter. What about your outdoor climate?

I'm so fucking delighted you're working on this one, stabilising a mango carrot sativa that finishes outside is something I've been desiring since I came across those flavours and effects from Kiwi seeds Mexican Haze - NL5/Haze x Mex. I find citrus to fit well into sativas in general.

If you need any test growers I'm well up for it I know it doesn't look like it with the amount of posts I've made, but I'm decent with descriptive feedback, not so with the photos.

 

[teide]

This is a great project, I will follow it with excitement.
I agree that auto zam is a perfect choice for the auto genes.
I am at F2 in my auto Cambodian project. All F2 autos are so far a bit too much broad leaf for my liking. I bet the auto zam makes sure the narrow leaves carry through.

 

[bonghopper]

What auto did you use for the cross Teide?

 

[Frosty Nuggets]

Will an autoflower grow over winter where it gets down to 0C rarely?
I ask because autoflowers are not affected by light hours so the shortening daylight hours should not affect it and as far as I can tell as long as the temperature doesn't get too low the plant should survive, or am I wrong?
If I am right then I can get 4 crops per year outdoors with a 12 week strain.

 

[paisajedehierba]

Good evening paisajedehierba,
Can start in mid Feb in polytunels under natural light without much protection for potted up monsters if needed, but mid-march to mid april is more usual with an early/mid May plantout. Use tree plugs for these and no potting up. Late Oct is as late as it goes for anything decent here. Coastal Eire, we've barely had a winter. What about your outdoor climate?

I'm so fucking delighted you're working on this one, stabilising a mango carrot sativa that finishes outside is something I've been desiring since I came across those flavours and effects from Kiwi seeds Mexican Haze - NL5/Haze x Mex. I find citrus to fit well into sativas in general.

If you need any test growers I'm well up for it I know it doesn't look like it with the amount of posts I've made, but I'm decent with descriptive feedback, not so with the photos.

Hi bonghopper,
sorry for late reply. Very busy times at the moment.

I am glad your´re excited about the attempts to design autoflowering Cannabis. Growing, selecting, planning the next steps is a very positive and instructive action to me. It teaches me patience. Do you have the chance to start your own auto project with your NL5/Haze x Mex?

My climate seems to be similar to yours. If the forecast is optimistic plantout will happen at end of April. Otherwise early to mid May would be normal.

My first line to be planted out (Early-May) is ATZ (AutoZam x GT 3 (F4)) … already full autoflowering.
This weekend I`ll soak first ATZ x ZamA75 F2 seeds ((AutoZam x GT 3) x Zamal A 75%). Next F2 seeds being soaked will be KC x ATZ (Kali China x (AutoZam x GT3)) +/- ten days behind. I want to do the F2 step and selections with these two lines indoors. F3 full autoflowering seeds should be ready Mid-June. The resulting F3 seeds will be tested immediately outdoors.

To late for an outdoor test will be GT 80 (Golden Tiger 2. version) x (Auto Zam x GT 3)). The F1 generation of GT 80 has been switched to 11/13 hours (light/dark) a week ago. So F2 seeds of GT 80 will be ready to soak at the end of May. GT 80 contains a few % GT 1 (from Auto Zamaldelica), 25% GT 3 and 50% GT 2. So we have Meao Thai, Ko Chang Thai and Thai Chiang Mai included in GT 80.

Auto Zamaldelica x GT 3 = Auto Tiger Zam (ATZ).
Kali China x (Auto Zamaldelica x Golden Tiger 3. Thai dom version) = KC x ATZ
GT 2 x ATZ = Auto GT 80% (GT 80)

 

[paisajedehierba]

This is a great project, I will follow it with excitement.
I agree that auto zam is a perfect choice for the auto genes.
I am at F2 in my auto Cambodian project. All F2 autos are so far a bit too much broad leaf for my liking. I bet the auto zam makes sure the narrow leaves carry through.

Hi Teide,
Auto Cambodian sounds grate. A South-east asian strain should be able to deliver narrow leaves in some phenos of your cross. My experience is, that narrower leaves can be found in Auto Zam when the plant switches to flowering stage. Ohterwise NL leaning phenos with +/- broader leaves appear sometimes. Do you like the high and smells of your F1 / F2 results?

 

[paisajedehierba]

Great project. The Ace Auto Zam is perfect for making lines with long-flowering sativas. I've been thinking about doing something similar for a while. Have just reached f2 seeds in my first auto making experiment. Seems important to grow as many plants as you can - to have sufficient to select the very best, and with having to trash 75% of the plants in the F2 generation. I'm working with v small pots - doesnt matter if the plant doesnt max out a harvest - all you need is to make seeds, and have enough smokable bud to get an idea of terps and quality of smoke. Doesnt have to be a beautiful baby.

You are right aliceklar. Those seeded plants sometimes look really ugly, because the parts of the plant with already ripe seeds are yellowing and dying. Those mother plants have a hard life to raise dozens of babies. Branching isn´t that pronounced and the volume of the buds isn´t representative if the plants are heavily seeded.

The number of plants (in F2) is important too. Tropical cannabis tends to have high female / male ratio. I am happy to get one or two male out of ten seeds in some crosses (like Auto Zam x GT 3). So, if there is no firm male between the autoflowering individuals (in F2 generation), I switch the remaining non autos to 11/13 (light/dark) to catch pollen. This way the next step delivers 50% autoflowering individuals. Patience is needed. For those folks without much space for 20 or more plants this could be a solution (working with 8 or 10 plants).

 

[teide]

I also had a hard time finding males in the f2s, I ONLY found one out of more than 20 seeds.

 

[paisajedehierba]

Will an autoflower grow over winter where it gets down to 0C rarely?
I ask because autoflowers are not affected by light hours so the shortening daylight hours should not affect it and as far as I can tell as long as the temperature doesn't get too low the plant should survive, or am I wrong?
If I am right then I can get 4 crops per year outdoors with a 12 week strain.

... Depending on the cross. I guess the winter crop of mainly tropical genes would be smaller and the development of resin and terpenes quite reduced....hard to keep the plants healthy. I would prefer growing as much as possible from spring to autum because of the quality. Otherwise you could try to design a better cold and rain adapted strain using something like Nepal Annapurna, PCK or Siberian ruderalis. You don´t really need to make the plants auto for a winter grow, because short day length will cause flowering without auto genes.

 

[paisajedehierba]

(Auto Zam x GT 3) x Zamal A 75%, F2, day 23 from seed for most of the plants, some are soaked one days later. First autoflowering female found. If there is no auto male out of 16 plants, I will switch the non autos from 16/8 to 11/13 (light/dark).