Autoflower Orgy!

[UnNatuReal]

Btw, Pekin Pehku mother of Pehkuruder was grown outdoors at 65ºN Finland (now I live at 60ºN).



I have also grown Doubleruders at 65ºN, and those have done well. I believe cross is lately inbred at some locations outdoors in Finland too by great growers/breeders.

So, it should adapt to northern environment quite easily

Sure it would be easier to use some more stable autoflower strain in crosses.. Those male hermaphrodites seems to be common too, but should not be big problem to regular growers. Of course it can be sign of hermaphrodite danger in females too. If take a look at that chart: http://www.rexresearch.com/hhusb/hh4bot.htm#HH45, it categorize female and male intersexs to different genotypes. Text within chart is quite hard to read or understand, maybe I try someday..

Ok, time for me to get back lurking for a while

Much respect again to you arcticsun for projects.

 

[dread]

nice man,respect bro

grtz
D.

 

[blackone]

I had 1 out of 4 of my PKR females show male preflowers first before revealing itself as a female "herm".
This is something I've seen many times in different strains and is normally innocent - I won't be using that particular individual for breeding of course. The balls will be plucked off and the plant followed closely... If she still won't behave then she has to go out in the forest

Just because balls are showing first it doesn't necessarily mean that it's a male plant turned female imho - I'm convinced that it's still a female plant with intersex traits that happens to grow balls as the first preflowers.
Your Cheese/SSH/PKr sure has a lot of balls though - most definitely belongs to the "true herm" league...

Swt#3 did it and some of the phenos I don't have any more sometimes gave me late flower nanners too - never saw any seeds though.
Fms grapefruit did it on many phenos - then never showed any intersex traits at all through many many grows.
Mandala Satori did it - a single pheno out of 4 had a strange malicious trait that seemed to make it pollinate itself (without producing even a single seed on neighbors...) but the seeds she gave me were empty shells...
My Nugg-it line does it too.

 

[Herbal extasy]

Damn arcticsun, you know your shit!
Read this whole thread during day. It took almost 3h! Still part of genetalk went way up my head. LOL

Been away from intense growing since 2003 and AF genes have gone big step ahead after that. I remember people at Hamppuforum talking about Jeppis and plans aquiring other autogenes. Mainly traditional finnish genes used in agriculture. Lowryder was not even discovered then.
What I been told, that Lowryder origin is cross of another finnish strain called "Finola" which contains very low amounts THC.

SISU has nothing to do with diplomacy. It is only known finnish word which do not have exact translation, but it means things like courage, not giving up even if situation looks hopeless, going through stone wall if wanting something etc. It is also brand of traditional finnish candy. Those alfabets in brand are written pre-1900 style.

Hope that helped describing word "SISU"
If I had to name non-finnish person with Sisu, it would be Donald Duck.

 

[blackone]

resolve/resoluteness/determination?

 

[arcticsun]

Btw, Pekin Pehku mother of Pehkuruder was grown outdoors at 65ºN Finland (now I live at 60ºN).



I have also grown Doubleruders at 65ºN, and those have done well. I believe cross is lately inbred at some locations outdoors in Finland too by great growers/breeders.

So, it should adapt to northern environment quite easily

Sure it would be easier to use some more stable autoflower strain in crosses.. Those male hermaphrodites seems to be common too, but should not be big problem to regular growers. Of course it can be sign of hermaphrodite danger in females too. If take a look at that chart: http://www.rexresearch.com/hhusb/hh4bot.htm#HH45, it categorize female and male intersexs to different genotypes. Text within chart is quite hard to read or understand, maybe I try someday..

Ok, time for me to get back lurking for a while

Much respect again to you arcticsun for projects.

Thanks a million for the fantastic information and help. I wouldnt have anything to work on if it wasnt for you guys, so you guys are the real pioneers that deserve all the praise. The Finnish guys like yourself especially is who gave me the inspiration to give it a go. It was when I saw your results that I really got interested.

I did receive some doubleruders btw when I got my pehkuruders but they didnt pop unfortunately. I have seen grows outdoors in Norway by the way that is north of the polar circle +66 north. I have heard of people growing in the area around Alta, thats approx +68ish north.
Thanks for the chart mate, it could be interesting to stabilize the herm traits out of the pehkuruders just for the sake of learning.
However I do think its interesting that it seems more likely to go male to female then female to male. This generation seems masculinized.

Thanks for the chart, ill spend some time studying

nice man,respect bro

grtz
D.

Likewise my friend

I had 1 out of 4 of my PKR females show male preflowers first before revealing itself as a female "herm".
This is something I've seen many times in different strains and is normally innocent - I won't be using that particular individual for breeding of course. The balls will be plucked off and the plant followed closely... If she still won't behave then she has to go out in the forest

The same thing has appeared in 2 of my females, however the male flower is undeveloped, it has not opened and it is not releasing pollen. I am wondering if this is the reason why the mother was so tall. The mom was not subjected to much stress testing, one of the pehkuruders I ran in the first run threw a single male flower in one of the lower nodes. I didnt think much of it at the time because the one I used did not throw any herms.
I should think the shorter females are less prone to herm. That is just an uneducated guess tho.

Just because balls are showing first it doesn't necessarily mean that it's a male plant turned female imho - I'm convinced that it's still a female plant with intersex traits that happens to grow balls as the first preflowers.
Your Cheese/SSH/PKr sure has a lot of balls though - most definitely belongs to the "true herm" league...

im wondering tho since we are seeing several of this type of male to female that they actually may be reverto's?

Swt#3 did it and some of the phenos I don't have any more sometimes gave me late flower nanners too - never saw any seeds though.
Fms grapefruit did it on many phenos - then never showed any intersex traits at all through many many grows.
Mandala Satori did it - a single pheno out of 4 had a strange malicious trait that seemed to make it pollinate itself (without producing even a single seed on neighbors...) but the seeds she gave me were empty shells...
My Nugg-it line does it too.

interesting m8 interesting, im guessing the pehkuruder is quite masculinised. At least this generation of it seems to have a high % of masculine phenotypes.

Damn arcticsun, you know your shit!
Read this whole thread during day. It took almost 3h! Still part of genetalk went way up my head. LOL

lolol dont worry it goes over my head too quite frequently One may have to learn about such stuff from someone else then me to make better sense of it ..

Been away from intense growing since 2003 and AF genes have gone big step ahead after that. I remember people at Hamppuforum talking about Jeppis and plans aquiring other autogenes. Mainly traditional finnish genes used in agriculture. Lowryder was not even discovered then.
What I been told, that Lowryder origin is cross of another finnish strain called "Finola" which contains very low amounts THC.

THANK YOU FINLAND!!!! I have heard that lowryder breeding stock comes out of the FIN314? is that the same as the finola maybe?

SISU has nothing to do with diplomacy. It is only known finnish word which do not have exact translation, but it means things like courage, not giving up even if situation looks hopeless, going through stone wall if wanting something etc. It is also brand of traditional finnish candy. Those alfabets in brand are written pre-1900 style.

Hope that helped describing word "SISU"
If I had to name non-finnish person with Sisu, it would be Donald Duck.

hahahha.. donald duck.. I like it thanks for the clearup, in Norway we think sdisu has to do with diplomacy, but i understand now it has more to do with getting your will

Great stuff my friend, massive respect

resolve/resoluteness/determination?

I find it still fits the strain very well... I like it! I think ill throw some autoak47 pollen on the sisu, see if she will give me some little auto sisus




Blessings all, its great to have you guys around, im really grateful for all the input and support. Im merely following in your footsteps guys, thanks for all the inspiration

 

[Flying Goat]

Arctic - OMG!

I've been out in the garden planting maters & taters & peppers the last few days.... Oooh! My back! And missed out from 4/09 until today...

What a masterful theory! I'm overwhelmed...

Wish I had known how sensitive the autos, particularly those with Blueberry in them (I am working with some Blue Streak), were before I potted them up... Oh, well... Live & learn... What was curious to me was that the main stem & leaves remained fresh & green, yet were twisted & deformed... There was no browning or leaf curl that I recognize as overfertilizing... Rather, they kept on growing & blooming but the leaves, etc. were pale & twisted, almost rolled into string-like formations... Too weird for me, so they bit the dirt today in order to make room for others at the Beach.

I will have a photo session tomorrow to show you the Pehkuruders that have been going outdoors... They started slow, then over the last 2 weeks have shot up over knee high & still going! However, due to my DB's stress level, I have moved them from outdoors with 13 hours light & 90F temps back indoors (not all of them, but the largest only)... I have a very handsome masculine male & a couple of very lovely ladies...

At 30N, they are stretching a bit under the Alabama outdoor sun...

Inside, at the Electric Beach, they are very squat & compact, more busy, even...

I have seen a couple I thot were going to be males from the meristem appearance, but which have not shown balls or hairs... Your advice about the hermies was so timely - as I ordinarily would have selected just the one Pkr "supermale" to collect his pollen & then chop the rest of them & feed to the goats...

You will see tomorrow the size difference of the Pkr male I have chosen... He is not the least bit feminine - he is all balls...

I dug them up & repotted them, happily, to bring them indoors. Compared to the ones which have lived under the 400hps all their lives, the outdoor plants have darker leaves, despite having fewer hours of light. I am nowhere near as brilliant as you are, but presume this is due to the pure strength of the Alabama sun... Even tomato plants like a bit of shade down here...

So far, I have identified only 2 distinct phenotypes - Tall & lush (male & female) and short & compact, but bushy (male & female).

I will photograph all of them tomorrow for your viewing pleasure, along with dates & descriptions of soil mix, ferts, etc.

I hope you will be pleased with my efforts & will be able to notice any differences in the plants' structure & growth from those at 69N.

Sadly, one Blue Mystic & the BM x Ice turned out to be males... They are indoors, getting the 12/12 treatment until they release pollen for future ladies...

I'll also post new pics of the little wild rudi Wes brought home to me in a plastic cup... She must be an auto - she's in full flower now under 20/4, having earned pride of place at the electric beach. Her leaf structure becomes curiouser & curiouser as she grows --- Now her leaves have only ONE finger! Imagine that - you're getting 13+ fingers & I'm getting... ONE! Also, apparently, the cold had little to do with her purple stem & red leaf petioles, as the color is still in place after receiving 80F ever since she arrived.

This little lady is gonna be a real BEAST - other than the fem PKR I brought in today, she is the largest in the closet & bushing right & left like crazy, with bud sites along every 1/2" or so & branching like mad as well... Lovely colors - Deep green glossy, single-bladed leaves with rose-colored leaf petioles & a magenta stem... We've named her "Wes' Wonder Weed" for the moment... When you see her pix, I'd love it if you could guide me as to which strain to pollinate her with... Or, since she has so many branches, I might decide to use several different males (PKR, Auto AK47 x NYCD x Blue Streak, Blue Streak, Himalayan Blue Diesel, White Widow, or Blue Mystic - all on separately tagged & bagged branches, of course) just to see what I get.

All in all, she's a fascinating girl & will definitely be revegged... I may even get bold enough to place her out on the back patio during reveg because she looks a lot more like stevia than cannabis...

Thanks for the guidance. As always, I continue to be fascinated with the depth & breadth of your knowledge... As we say in the South...

Ah hopes ya continue learnin' me these valuable teachins, man!

Cheers.

 

[arcticsun]

Arctic - OMG!

I've been out in the garden planting maters & taters & peppers the last few days.... Oooh! My back! And missed out from 4/09 until today...

Hiya FG was almost starting to worry about you.. careful about that back now

What a masterful theory! I'm overwhelmed...

hehe ill see if we can find some more substantial info on the acclimatization process. I may have taken my mouth to full when I started talking about how many plants one needs to create genetic diversity. However it is obvious to me that organisms have intelligent adaptive mechanisms.

Wish I had known how sensitive the autos, particularly those with Blueberry in them (I am working with some Blue Streak), were before I potted them up... Oh, well... Live & learn... What was curious to me was that the main stem & leaves remained fresh & green, yet were twisted & deformed... There was no browning or leaf curl that I recognize as overfertilizing... Rather, they kept on growing & blooming but the leaves, etc. were pale & twisted, almost rolled into string-like formations... Too weird for me, so they bit the dirt today in order to make room for others at the Beach.

Seems to me the autos are sensitive indeed, ive had all kinds of strange flips on mine. But then again im working with very unstable material.

I will have a photo session tomorrow to show you the Pehkuruders that have been going outdoors... They started slow, then over the last 2 weeks have shot up over knee high & still going! However, due to my DB's stress level, I have moved them from outdoors with 13 hours light & 90F temps back indoors (not all of them, but the largest only)... I have a very handsome masculine male & a couple of very lovely ladies...

thats great, nice to hear that yours seem more stabile then mine, I must have stressed them too much with the excessive light i guess.
Keep an eye out for those pesky nanners

At 30N, they are stretching a bit under the Alabama outdoor sun...

Inside, at the Electric Beach, they are very squat & compact, more busy, even...

I have seen a couple I thot were going to be males from the meristem appearance, but which have not shown balls or hairs... Your advice about the hermies was so timely - as I ordinarily would have selected just the one Pkr "supermale" to collect his pollen & then chop the rest of them & feed to the goats...

You will see tomorrow the size difference of the Pkr male I have chosen... He is not the least bit feminine - he is all balls...

I dug them up & repotted them, happily, to bring them indoors. Compared to the ones which have lived under the 400hps all their lives, the outdoor plants have darker leaves, despite having fewer hours of light. I am nowhere near as brilliant as you are, but presume this is due to the pure strength of the Alabama sun... Even tomato plants like a bit of shade down here...

So far, I have identified only 2 distinct phenotypes - Tall & lush (male & female) and short & compact, but bushy (male & female).

I will photograph all of them tomorrow for your viewing pleasure, along with dates & descriptions of soil mix, ferts, etc.

Ive been worried that someone may be putting loads of efforts into working with the pehkuruders and get into hermie problems. Im glad I caught you in time I didnt notice such herm traits in the parents, but then again I only had 5 pehkuruders in the original grow i think. Im thinking it may come from the tall female.

I would select one of the smaller bushyer females if you find one I guess, im uncertain whether the taller ones could be "fake" females, that are actually male to female revertos. This is just a guess since I have a couple of plants with an underdeveloped male flower at the lowest nodes, these are the tallest plants. The smaller ones dont seem to carry this trait. I have yet to find herm shoots or anything that looks like it on the smaller bushyer females.

I will be keeping this in mind and doing rigorous stress testing before making another batch of pehkuruders. As one says we learn as long as we live. I would be devastated if anyone were to waist a lot of time and effort on account of me. So I think we should go about working with the pehkuruder from a skeptic perspective. That goes also in the relations to whatever drops out of my mouth hehehe.
Brilliant I dont know about that hehehe, im full of shit is what I am hahaha Thank you my dearest friend it surely helps with a little confidence when tackling these things. However im not educated in botany, admittedly I need to learn much more about genetics and I have never stabilized a line to IBL before. Im leaning heavily on the support of you my friends and the work of other brilliant people that have worked on the strains before me.
Im just typically Norwegian like coming in to steal all the glory now that the autos are hot hehehehe. I must redirect the praise and good karma to the good Finnish community.

I hope you will be pleased with my efforts & will be able to notice any differences in the plants' structure & growth from those at 69N.

oh my, im more then pleased, I cant keep up with you You're a growing mashine of sorts. My biggest concern is that I hope you find something that you can work with regarding your and your patients medical needs. Thats the only concern actually, im much more concerned regarding what I can do for you. The only disappointment would be if I was of no help.

Sadly, one Blue Mystic & the BM x Ice turned out to be males... They are indoors, getting the 12/12 treatment until they release pollen for future ladies...

Oh no!!!! thats too bad, hope that didnt cut into your smoking budget too much.

I'll also post new pics of the little wild rudi Wes brought home to me in a plastic cup... She must be an auto - she's in full flower now under 20/4, having earned pride of place at the electric beach. Her leaf structure becomes curiouser & curiouser as she grows --- Now her leaves have only ONE finger! Imagine that - you're getting 13+ fingers & I'm getting... ONE! Also, apparently, the cold had little to do with her purple stem & red leaf petioles, as the color is still in place after receiving 80F ever since she arrived.

This little lady is gonna be a real BEAST - other than the fem PKR I brought in today, she is the largest in the closet & bushing right & left like crazy, with bud sites along every 1/2" or so & branching like mad as well... Lovely colors - Deep green glossy, single-bladed leaves with rose-colored leaf petioles & a magenta stem... We've named her "Wes' Wonder Weed" for the moment... When you see her pix, I'd love it if you could guide me as to which strain to pollinate her with... Or, since she has so many branches, I might decide to use several different males (PKR, Auto AK47 x NYCD x Blue Streak, Blue Streak, Himalayan Blue Diesel, White Widow, or Blue Mystic - all on separately tagged & bagged branches, of course) just to see what I get.

hehe wow you have a nice selection of males now indeed. Could do loads of fun things. Id love to see pics of her, very interesting indeed.

All in all, she's a fascinating girl & will definitely be revegged... I may even get bold enough to place her out on the back patio during reveg because she looks a lot more like stevia than cannabis...

Thanks for the guidance. As always, I continue to be fascinated with the depth & breadth of your knowledge... As we say in the South...

Ah hopes ya continue learnin' me these valuable teachins, man!

Cheers.

I am not sure if she will reveg for you, I dont think autos will reveg, but then again im not sure that could be some dogma ive picked up somewhere.

Hope we can continue to learn from eachother , im thinking about why the outdoor plants have darker leaves then the indoor plants. Thats interesting indeed. Very interesting.


Thanks a million FG for the update, always alot of fun to hear how things are going round and about on the different test grows

Blessings and happy karma your way, careful about that back now

 

[Herbal extasy]

Yes, FIN314 is Finola.

Some things you should know about FINOLA:
FINOLA, is an oilseed hemp variety, that was developed in Finland in 1995 and
was initially identified by its breeder’s code as FIN-314. It was admitted to the
Canadian list of hemp cultivars in 1998, where it has remained to this day. FINOLA
was finally admitted to EU list of subsidized hemp varieties in 2003, after much....

Here is link to techspecs(PDF) of strain. Also link to Finola site from where anyone can order 20kg bags of that seed and start developing their own "LowRyder".
http://www.finola.com/Finola_Planting_Seed_2010.pdf
http://www.finola.com/index.html

 

[arcticsun]

Yes, FIN314 is Finola.

Some things you should know about FINOLA:
FINOLA, is an oilseed hemp variety, that was developed in Finland in 1995 and
was initially identified by its breeder’s code as FIN-314. It was admitted to the
Canadian list of hemp cultivars in 1998, where it has remained to this day. FINOLA
was finally admitted to EU list of subsidized hemp varieties in 2003, after much....

Here is link to techspecs(PDF) of strain. Also link to Finola site from where anyone can order 20kg bags of that seed and start developing their own "LowRyder".
http://www.finola.com/Finola_Planting_Seed_2010.pdf
http://www.finola.com/index.html

Thanks a bunch my friend great links.. Dont know if I have time to look for the auto pheno, do you know what the auto% is in those seeds?





Here is a quick picture update for everyone while im at it, they are just barely showing trichomes, trich production is looking descent on first glance.. Lets get closer to each one as the trichs become more visible on photos.

Room.. ive tossed some autoak47s in there aswell, they are fnk huuge. I wonder if my seed donor may have had an accidental pollination of these because by the looks of them they dont look fully auto. Maybe we hit some recessive non auto genes in this generation.. who knows, you can see them in the middle they are taller then all the others.

AK47/PKR F1's

cheese/ssh/pkr F1's you can see these are taller and alittle stretchyer then the ak47/pkr cross.

There were only 2 RK/LR females, one is alittle more symmetric then the other. Excuse the picture angle, they are way back in the room and ive got to stretch out in a weird uncomfy position to take pics, almost tripped and fell flat out into the jungle. Could have been a disaster tbh... They are also just barely starting to show a nice trichome coverage, ill get closeups up soon.

Here is a AK47/pkr head, I dont know if you can see it, but the trichs are just barely starting to show..

Its pollination time very soon now, ive descided to make 2 crosses only I think because of the unstabile tendencies in this genetics. I will have to do a larger selection I think to get better parent candidates. I will do at least the RK/LR F2's, definately.. I think ill also dust the nicest looking AK47/PKR with some autoak47 pollen.
I am not very happy with any of my cheese/ssh/pkr males after the big boss turned out to be a dragartist. But there are a couple of females from that cross that look pretty nice, im thinking maybe ill dust one of them with some RK/LR pollen and see what gives.

I will not do any pehkuruder crosses in this run, I will rather do a larger pehkuruder selection with beans from both the parents I had initially. I have 2 different pehkuruder lines, from 2 different mothers. Ill try to grow the pehkuruders outdoors this summer and hopefully do a pollination outdoors.



Peace all

 

[Flying Goat]

Didn't get to make pix yesterday, Arctic - income tax filing! Pffft! Constant interruptions, etc.

Today will be the day, tho... if it kills me. The problem is that my house is too dark indoors & the T&G heart pine paneling absorbs all the light. Great for a person with migraines, but not so great for photos... Outdoors, the sun fng BLAZES until about 6PM, so I have to choose my time & location carefully, lest all be freaking glare.

You will really enjoy this place in fall. Hope you're still planning that trip! Of course, my motives are PURELY selfish! To have you as a resident guest while I pick your brains & request your sage advice on tweaking my tiny op...

Cheers!

 

[chefboy6969]

well 3/5 of my SSH f2 x Pehkruder have shown me balls and I have culled them...I currently have very "high" hopes for 2 nice looking, very healthy SSHf2 x Pehkruder(Arctic Haze) plants that are left..I am positive they are female although they haven't shown me stigmas yet...I am sure they will..
wish me luck in my search for some very early sativa smoke...


peace
Chefboy

 

[arcticsun]

yeh, good luck bro, next years version of the arctic haze should be better worked..

 

[paulo73]

Great work!
Respect!

 

[arcticsun]

Certain things seems to indicate that the LEO in my area has become attentive to the boom in homegrown weed.


It had to come some time, they have now said that they are working on discovering plantations in the area.



I am sorry that I will therefor NOT upload any more pictures from this grow until it is finished. All my albums will also be deleted for the time being to ensure safety.



It would be a shame if the local LEO were to mistake me for a cash cropper. I am a grower growing for personal use, because I have sleep issues due to the fucked up rhythm of day in the arctic and because I often work night shifts. It also calms my nerves and stops me from going viking berserk on their mothefucking asses!



I breed these strains as I have mentioned several times in many different contexts not with a commercial outlet in mind, but because I would rather like to grow my meds outdoors in the arctic to stop the usage of indoor space and electricity.



I am therefor not working on the highest potency cannabis atm, but rather with Pehkuruder crosses and autos which I personally consider a nordic culture plant and ive also been afraid that they may have been close to extinction.



However, I am afraid local dimwit LEO, who has a 1950s perspective of what cannabis is, will not see it this way. Therefor I will have to keep a lower profile for a while.



Thank you all for understanding, I will update with text, pictures will have to wait until the grow is safely concluded.


Peace!

 

[ChynaRyder]

prayers for safety m8....f'n cops.

 

[arcticsun]

thanks chynaryder


Its not dramatic on my end, however its best to not tempt faith too much. Im sure eventually they will get smart to forum activities. Ive deleted all images from my computer and ive gotten every bit of growing equipment thats not in use out of the house.


I feel safer now. Im closing down the indoor shop after this grow is over, and its a seed grow so im not horribly worried about the repercussions in the worst case scenario. Male tent is coming down tonite after I have collected pollen. I dont have cash in the house and neither do I have loads of finished product.
The worst mess was the used soil and such that is a drag to get rid of.


I think it is going to cause a significant increase in interest and knowledge once people get wise to that its possible to grow outdoors here. That would mean that the plant wouldnt be as "foreign" and "dangerous" anymore. Placing it outdoors in nature would give it a different position in peoples eyes imo.



Just to ensure everyone, there is no indications that I specifically have been targeted in any way. This is just a precaution as the local LEO has gone out and said plantations are a target atm. The area is quite hot with growers, new ones springing up everywhere. These new guys arent like me, they are causing a ruckus. Ive been around for a while so ill take my hat and bow out quietly after i finish up this grow, its been a good run. No need to get greedy.



Peace all!

 

[ChynaRyder]

and so the wise old buck lives for another day...

 

[paulo73]

Sad to know but i like the way you do stuff!
Respect!
May the Sun shine a lot!

 

[Flying Goat]

Very sorry to hear, Arctic!

Just got my pics made & would like your comments (text)... if not too late.

Bush pheno female Pehkuruder


Slender girl & bushy Pehkuruder


Male taking sunbath


Tall pheno female


All appear to be quite happy in the sun at 30N. I'm collecting the biggest, most virile male to make seed from the ladies... I have pollinated both the busy gal & the tall rangy one with him.

I've also crossed one of the smaller fems & one branch of the bushy fem with Blue Mystic x Ice... Plan to cross another with a potent WW male who is actually forming crystals on his stems & flowers... Will probably collect him today.

Sorry for the delay, Arctic - I know you wanted to see them... I'm going to have to take a break here as well, because all the recent gardening is wearing me out...

Keep safe, my friend...