Atlanta article on Interstate "profiling," but they deny thats what it is.

[yamaha_1fan]

as already stated, dogs smell differently than we do. I think it was explained like a stew. Humans walk in the house and smell stew. Dogs walk in and smell carrots, potatoes, meat etc. The smells dont blend for them, they can pick out each individual smell.

Vacuum seal a bag wearing gloves. clean bag. Then wearing new gloves, rebag and vacuum seal again. This is not going to last forever, maybe a day or two.

Bags do allow smell to permeate through them. There was a discussion about this on Barrys site a while back. They tested some bags with some dogs and they all leaked after a few days. Supposedly some turkey bags were the only thing that held the smell after 30 days.

 

[Julian]

An always interesting topic with no limits.......

You guys have strayed though from the real points....ie: If they are doing a walk around with dog, one has already failed in prep and process.....

Profiling a science from initial visual through psychological through behavioral which then results in a search if one has failed...

(The key to packaging was touched on above also ...and main reason why we see the seizures we do....)

 

[whodi]

someone who is able to... should purchase a good drug sniffing dog and train it.. figure out what works and doesnt.

 

[Julian]

Or they could just follow what is already known.......

Packaging for example?....one will find no shortage of piles of vacuum sealed packages on the table in photos.......so what happened?.....(simple answer...)

One could read through cases and would be obvious why they got pulled over in first place......

One could read through and study certain routes and see what they face on that route/trip......

Every single bit of relevant information about every aspect is already available.

 

[whodi]

I've heard dogs can't smell through water.. example.. dead body in water.. dog can't track it.

What if you put your packaged goods inside a big rubebrmaid container and filled it up with water..

 

[JohnnyATL]

stereotyping im the city is really big. Alot of times, i feel like because im not black or mexican, the cops try not to fuck with you as much unless your doing some stupid ass shit.


To all those who doubt atlanta as the new MIA is wrong. SOOOO much blow and meth come threw atlanta from mexico and supply the ENTIRE east coast. Chances are if your getting blow in NYC its prob from down south.

The only thing is, the mexicans cant bring any good weed, and all the beasters that are around here drive up the price of the good buds. Therefore we see almost the highest prices on kush but low low prices on blow

 

[SomeGuy]

I've heard dogs can't smell through water.. example.. dead body in water.. dog can't track it.

What if you put your packaged goods inside a big rubebrmaid container and filled it up with water..

I dunno about that. I've seen "cadaver dogs" used by search and rescue when looking for drowning victims and all they do is load them in a boat and ride around the area till it hits and then they dive. I'm sure the body releases a smell that rises to the surface.
They are pretty accurate too as we had a guy try to fake his death recently. They visually searched the immediate area, then called in a dog to search a broader area, then announced in the paper that it was a scam.

3 weeks later they found the guy 500 miles away alive and well, though under arrest. Dumb ass tried to get a new drivers license in his real name.

 

[whodi]

An always interesting topic with no limits.......

You guys have strayed though from the real points....ie: If they are doing a walk around with dog, one has already failed in prep and process.....

Profiling a science from initial visual through psychological through behavioral which then results in a search if one has failed...

(The key to packaging was touched on above also ...and main reason why we see the seizures we do....)

True. However, you can be cool and calm.. and the cops can still ask to search your car. You can politely say no, but they will be 1) offended or 2) think you have something to hide... and then they will bring a dog in to do a walk-around since it's legal. So... yeah, better have it packaged propper

 

[yamaha_1fan]

You guys have strayed though from the real points....ie: If they are doing a walk around with dog, one has already failed in prep and process.....

At first I was going to say I disagreed, but maybe I do agree to a point.

If you get pulled over, you failed. A cop sitting on the side of the road watches hundreds of cars every minute. You have to be doing something stupid to get his attention

But once you get pulled over, things are out of your control. The cop may have a dog with him (good chance of that in the ATL) and then you may be screwed.

Look at the guy on the other thread speeding while drunk and busted with 3 #. This aint rocket science. COps are not magicians, they dont automatically know who has drugs. Its like throwing shit on a wall and seeing what sticks. Pull over more people, odds are you find more drugs.

Key is to not get pulled in the first place.


BTW, my understanding is dogs are not always searching for drugs. Their handler has to "turn them on" and they go crazy.

 

[yamaha_1fan]

someone who is able to... should purchase a good drug sniffing dog and train it.. figure out what works and doesnt.

4 grand will get you one

http://www.littlerockk9academy.com/narc_dog_info.htm

 

[whodi]

nice , good find

 

[Julian]

A subject I know a little about.....so, please, don't mistake my "passion" or "excitement" for argumentative......

(I have been stopped 4 times with loads in my life cross country, 1 with an extremely large amount of currency, and never have been asked to consent to search.......the last time, the stop lasted no longer than 3-4 minutes.....)

True. However, you can be cool and calm.. and the cops can still ask to search your car. You can politely say no, but they will be 1) offended or 2) think you have something to hide... and then they will bring a dog in to do a walk-around since it's legal. So... yeah, better have it packaged propper

Please read below....

At first I was going to say I disagreed, but maybe I do agree to a point.

Please read on.....

If you get pulled over, you failed. A cop sitting on the side of the road watches hundreds of cars every minute. You have to be doing something stupid to get his attention

I highlighted........

The vehicle could create an interest...

The occupant(s) could create an interest....

Both meaning not "doing anything wrong"...(except for choosing vehicle and occupants to start with )

But once you get pulled over, things are out of your control. The cop may have a dog with him (good chance of that in the ATL) and then you may be screwed.

At no point is anything "out of your control"...

Let's backtrack a little:
YOU determine what vehicle to drive....
YOU determine whether laws will be obeyed or not..
YOU are in control of that vehicle....
YOU have TOTAL control over how and when and where it was packed....
YOU control whether or not you will be searched....(by YOUR behavior.....)

COps are not magicians, they dont automatically know who has drugs. Its like throwing shit on a wall and seeing what sticks. Pull over more people, odds are you find more drugs.

Thank you........(same with anything....they know nothing initially......same applies to all such investigations and probing, etc....)

That means: What they observe leads them to a conclusion during their "investigation".....

Let's address the anatomy of the traffic stop regarding Interstate Interdiction efforts....

1. They are trained far beyond what most realize, including vehicle makes and models and spaces within them......all the way through behavioral psychology....

To continue:
They may be scoping or rolling..ie: Sitting or doing their runs between their assigned mile markers...

(They are assigned a specific stretch between 2 set of mile markers at any given point throughout a state......)

If one is passing by, any of the above may get them interested....vehicle, occupants, how vehicle sits, physical characteristics of vehicle......(possibly even led vehicles......they are well aware of that technique.......and several vehicles have been known to be pulled over at the same time in various cases.....)

If one is rolling.....they may develop an interest due to any or all of the above and be waiting for an offense......

Note: People should look up proper procedure for lane changes btw ...(you rarely see a textbook letter of the law lane change ....)

Now.....

Back to the above......

Will a stop mean a mandatory search?

I say no........and I'm not alone Let's backtrack to the initial article:

Jefferson police Officer Johnny Wood says he often asks drivers simple questions such as where they’ve been, where they’re going and where they stayed on the way.

Conflicting statements or stories that don’t make sense could prompt him to request permission to search the car.

They have an initial stop.

That initial stop does not necessarily come with a suspicion.

Everything that is done and said determines if that suspicion grows, or dissipates...


Proven above....and, sure what anyone would find delving further into Highway Interdiction efforts...

Packaging?
1. How come you see many busts with things vacuum sealed?

Let's analyze that:
1. Time, heat and movement determine permeation.

You seal a package and throw it in front of a dog......you think it will hit on it?

Of course not....(if done right.....)

A day later?

I would not bet my life on it...

I think one would be surprised if one knew how long packages sat before packaged....how long the vehicles sat before driven.......etc.....

Bottom line is pack right, last minute, and leave.

The above will then bring one to different manufacturers and machines, which include different bags, with different OTR's...(OTR: Oxygen Transmission Rates)

(If double or triple sealed in appropriate environment, packed last minute....there is no possible way it could be smelled immediately afterwards.....(without 3 elements above: Time, Heat, Movement...)

It should also be noted, most manufacturers will state: At 32 degrees or below, OTR's are nonexistent...

Now......

Psychological issues would be the behavior that one would give off in such a situation......most can't imagine the stress that accompanies such....truly...words cannot explain......

A stop in itself does not determine a search.

What would I say? ....

I would say: You play it until the end....

It's not over till it's over.

Just because he asks you to search does not mean he will.......

That.......is up to you.

I would also say that the elements are one has to "program" themselves: You aren't doing anything wrong...

Some Training Notes:
An innocent person, without contraband, will not react in a passive, apologetic way if being harassed...

Key words in training manuals would state being apologetic, cooperative, etc, are indicators of criminal activity...

So.....

No. I think this is an amazing and expansive subject.....and found the true contents of the subject overlooked .....

Dog from a reputable trainer, including training of handler should run about 10k..

Highway Interdiction Programs a very interesting subject.......and quite expansive.......(ie: Occupants, Vehicle, Behavior, day.time, violation,body language, phrasing,etc, etc...)

Phrasing?......yes phrasing.

You tell me your a contractor, plumber, elevator mechanic, gardener, "businessman".....and I'll bet you $5 bucks I can tell if your lying in 5 minutes by asking questions

(Short duration of trip an indicator.....no receipts.....can't name place they stayed...saying too much...saying too little.....old trick is multiple occupants separated and "Innocently" questioned.....)

Highway Interdiction?

No question they ask is "innocent".

If your pulled over, you fucked up to start with....
If they request a search? You fucked up more since pulled over..
If they find it, through k9 or otherwise?

Then you plain just fucked up.

Amazing subject......endless angles.......no shortage of material to be found on it...(many good books also.....)

Should also be noted Interdiction efforts do not end on the road.

Services Exits..(hotels, gas stations) may very well have Interdiction teams walking K9's around cars with certain plates outside hotels.......teams may approach one when pumping gas.......etc.......

So......No man. I think replies above not doing topic justice ..

Think people missing the bigger picture of such topic.....(I even used a quote from the above that wasn't addressed ..granted....easy to miss if not paying attention ....)

 

[forty]

T
That initial stop does not necessarily come with a suspicion.

Everything that is done and said determines if that suspicion grows, or dissipates...



Now......

Psychological issues would be the behavior that one would give off in such a situation......most can't imagine the stress that accompanies such....truly...words cannot explain......

A stop in itself does not determine a search.

What would I say? ....

I would say: You play it until the end....

It's not over till it's over.

Just because he asks you to search does not mean he will.......

That.......is up to you.

I would also say that the elements are one has to "program" themselves: You aren't doing anything wrong...

Some Training Notes:
An innocent person, without contraband, will not react in a passive, apologetic way if being harassed...

Key words in training manuals would state being apologetic, cooperative, etc, are indicators of criminal activity...

So.....

No. I think this is an amazing and expansive subject.....and found the true contents of the subject overlooked .....

pretty amazing how much plays into this. one must have nerves of steel to not show some level of nervousness when being pulled over with either lbs or cash and avoid a search request.

if asked to search i personally would say no because at that point chances are they will anyway and you;re fucked. if you consent you lose illegal search defense options in court whereas if you decline they need to prove probable cause for the stop and search leaving a chance of getting it thrown out if they made any mistakes. imo, if pulled over and asked to search kiss the load goodbye and focus on avoiding prosecution.

 

[soniq]

everything is porous. Odor will eventually permeate out through ALL materials.

You have a window of time per-material but eventually, the smell is going to permeate the material. I suppose you could probably get a pretty good window of time if you hide your stash in uranium or something, lol.

No way of getting around the permeating issue other than timeing.....