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Are Organics people more snobby than other Potheads ?
- Thread starter greenhead
- Start date
tenfeetofganja
Member
HeadyPete said:
Not in the least. If you read my post from the beginning I said I respect both froms of growing, I simply choose chemical based ferts as my personal prefrence. My problem is the slanderous comments made from organic growers saying how all chem weed is garbage and we are "retarded" for growing with non-organic nutrients. I take that highly offensive as I have been using chem-based ferts for well over 8 years with more than excellent results round after round. I show you all great pictures of previous crops, and what is the result? You all comment it probably taste like shitty ass chemicals. Thanks, I really appreciate you demeaning my hard efforts.
Secondly, I dont know if you have ever been to jamica. talked to the ganja farmers. visited the fields. smoked with bredrin in trenchtown? if not it would seem hard for you to have a true understanding of jamicans and their ganja based culture mainly influenced by rastafari. i went to the island a few years back with a heap of genetics only to find that most common principles of growing were unknown to many of the JAM people. i spent months enjoying the weather and surf while teaching many of the priciciples of cultivation and training to the jamican people. met lot of great people.
And yes, when you try to explain to an evangilical christian about other forms of religion (such as your own) they shoot you down and act like your ignorant for not following in their belief. I dont know how close that relates to all organic growers, but I can picture a few in my head that I know of.
Next time instead of throwing blatant insults, try bringing some truth+facts to the issue and try acting like an adult about it.
TenFooT
TheBigGreen1
Member
I use wallyworld potting soil, perlite, bone meal, and Indonesian bat guano. I mix the guano and perlite in and add a layer of bone meal about 3/4 of the way down the bucket. (5 gal). So the plant has extra P when the roots get down that far. I water with a T of molasses per gallon of water when I feel like it. Not on a set schedule. My weed never makes me paranoid. I dont know if it is because I know what to expect or it is because I dont use chem fertilizers. And I dont really care. Its cheap and it works well for me. I am not one of those people that brags "Mine is organic". (because in the end nothing really is) Id be willing to bet the bone meal contains RBGH. And think of all that jet fuel wasted getting the seeds to me from overseas. And all of the oil wasted in transporting your organic ingredients to and fro. All the coal burned to supply electricity.
Im sure that there are already clubs in Cali that are charging premiums for organic herb. And if not you will see them soon. Why sell carrots for .79 a lb. When you can charge $4.50 a lb because they are organic, and make someone feel special. You can bet they were shipped on a big ol diesel truck, that belches black smoke everywhere. My herb grows the same as everyone elses. And in the end its all the same. I grow my own and I smoke good. And in the end it all goes up in smoke.
Im sure that there are already clubs in Cali that are charging premiums for organic herb. And if not you will see them soon. Why sell carrots for .79 a lb. When you can charge $4.50 a lb because they are organic, and make someone feel special. You can bet they were shipped on a big ol diesel truck, that belches black smoke everywhere. My herb grows the same as everyone elses. And in the end its all the same. I grow my own and I smoke good. And in the end it all goes up in smoke.
G
Guest
There is definitely a reason to believe organic marijuana is the only way to smoke it. I understand that line of that quite well. Sometimes its not easy to do that though, because situations dictate the use of alternate means such as hydroponics for whatever reason. But I do like organically grown anything, its natural in its truest sense. Just like the herb god gave us,natural.
tenfeetofganja said:
Grow a thicker skin mate - I never saw anybody badmouth your bud or say anything derogatory other than bud grown with refined nutrients tastes "chemmy" which I think is hardly insulting.
Some people don't like the taste of non-organic bud and for some it's a total lifestyle choice. I imagine more are in the second camp.
tenfeetofganja
Member
Sammet said:
Well for some my skin to thick others not thick enough..Guess the only one you can please is yourself. And I am happy as fuck smoking on this blunt the size of a bannana packed full of og kush and cannalope haze full melt..
ALL GROWN WITH GH NUTES 
WRONG...PazVerdeRadical said:
Show me one hydroponic nutrient line which is petroleum based.
Nutrients are made from mined phosphates, sulfates, and carbonates.
Minerals which are mined and refined.
How do you make ammonia for use in fertilizers? By using the Haber process.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertilizer
Where does the hydrogen come from to use in the Haber process?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process
The Haber process now produces 100 million tons of nitrogen fertilizer per year, mostly in the form of anhydrous ammonia, ammonium nitrate, and urea. 0.75% of the world's annual energy supply is consumed in the Haber process (3.35% of world natural gas production is used for ammonia production,[8][9][1] and natural gas represents 22% of world energy production.[10] See also[11] for rough estimate of 1% of energy production.) That fertilizer is responsible for sustaining one-third of the Earth's population, as well as various deleterious environmental consequences.[12] Generation of hydrogen using electrolysis of water, using renewable energy, is not currently competitive cost-wise with hydrogen from fossil fuels, such as natural gas, and is responsible for only 4% of current hydrogen production. Notably, the rise of this industrial process led to the "Nitrate Crisis" in Chile, when the British industrials left the country (since the natural nitrate mines were no longer profitable), closing the mines and leaving a large unemployed Chilean population behind.
from methane or natural gas - petrochemicals, hydrocarbons, petroleum based - all the same thing.
From a more official source:
Fertilizer Production
http://www.fifa.asn.au/default.asp?V_DOC_ID=837
Raw Materials
The major raw materials for fertilizer manufacture are hydrocarbon sources (mainly natural gas), sulfur, phosphate rock, potassium salts, micro-nutrients, water and air.
So chances are that all hydroponic nutrient lines use ammonia that is made from petroleum based chemicals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertilizer
Where does the hydrogen come from to use in the Haber process?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process
The Haber process now produces 100 million tons of nitrogen fertilizer per year, mostly in the form of anhydrous ammonia, ammonium nitrate, and urea. 0.75% of the world's annual energy supply is consumed in the Haber process (3.35% of world natural gas production is used for ammonia production,[8][9][1] and natural gas represents 22% of world energy production.[10] See also[11] for rough estimate of 1% of energy production.) That fertilizer is responsible for sustaining one-third of the Earth's population, as well as various deleterious environmental consequences.[12] Generation of hydrogen using electrolysis of water, using renewable energy, is not currently competitive cost-wise with hydrogen from fossil fuels, such as natural gas, and is responsible for only 4% of current hydrogen production. Notably, the rise of this industrial process led to the "Nitrate Crisis" in Chile, when the British industrials left the country (since the natural nitrate mines were no longer profitable), closing the mines and leaving a large unemployed Chilean population behind.
from methane or natural gas - petrochemicals, hydrocarbons, petroleum based - all the same thing.
From a more official source:
Fertilizer Production
http://www.fifa.asn.au/default.asp?V_DOC_ID=837
Raw Materials
The major raw materials for fertilizer manufacture are hydrocarbon sources (mainly natural gas), sulfur, phosphate rock, potassium salts, micro-nutrients, water and air.
So chances are that all hydroponic nutrient lines use ammonia that is made from petroleum based chemicals.
Ohhh... hydrogen from natural gas to convert nitrogen to amonia... good that you cleared that one up...
In that case...
COWS are petroleum factories, eh...
Isn't natural gas an ORGANIC compound?
It's good to know you are just using the term petro/chemical to describe natural gas because its a nice propaganda word which implied that oil is used.
Oh yeah... guess what happens to most of the natural gas which comes from oil wells... They just burn it off... right out there in the field...
I'd much rather see it converted to nutrient, than simply burned off into the atmosphere...
Cow farts are petrochemicals.
In that case...
COWS are petroleum factories, eh...
Isn't natural gas an ORGANIC compound?
It's good to know you are just using the term petro/chemical to describe natural gas because its a nice propaganda word which implied that oil is used.
Oh yeah... guess what happens to most of the natural gas which comes from oil wells... They just burn it off... right out there in the field...
I'd much rather see it converted to nutrient, than simply burned off into the atmosphere...
Cow farts are petrochemicals.
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Also... Isn't it by-product hydrogen which is being used? Sort of like recycling pollution into something useful... Or, We could all switch to organics, and they can just dump it into the atmosphere...
Whenever organic matter containing nitrogen is submitted to destructive distillation, ammonia is formed. The chief sources of ammonia are: the distillation of coal for gas or coke, of uituminous shales, and of bones and other animal matter; putrid urine; the residues of the beet sugar industry and those left after the fermentation of molasses for alcohol; and the waste gases from blast furnaces.
It's funny how you call something Petrol based, when the only component that comes from anything remotely related to petroleum is the hydrogen.
You do know that when HYDROGEN burns WATER is formed, right??
Even distilled water could be called petrochemical derived by your use of the definition.
Propaganda words don't bother me. I just wanted people to clearly understand than no nutes are made from oil.
Whenever organic matter containing nitrogen is submitted to destructive distillation, ammonia is formed. The chief sources of ammonia are: the distillation of coal for gas or coke, of uituminous shales, and of bones and other animal matter; putrid urine; the residues of the beet sugar industry and those left after the fermentation of molasses for alcohol; and the waste gases from blast furnaces.
It's funny how you call something Petrol based, when the only component that comes from anything remotely related to petroleum is the hydrogen.
You do know that when HYDROGEN burns WATER is formed, right??
Even distilled water could be called petrochemical derived by your use of the definition.
Propaganda words don't bother me. I just wanted people to clearly understand than no nutes are made from oil.
Grat3fulh3ad said:
As I had said, I am not tAlking of hydroponics or brand of nutrients you use. I am speaking of organic gardening and how it differentiates from synthetic products, whether ferts, herbicides or pesticides.
anyways, living in Venezuela like I do, I think I have a slight idea of what people do and don't do with petroleum and natural gas... and I tell you, tons of it is used for making synthetic ferts herbicides and pesticides.
for the kid who was saying organics means only animal poop; actually, organics is a term that derives from the word organism, so organics is really any organism that when decomposes it becomes beneficial nutrients for plants in general. seaweed is thus organic, being a plant and all.
peace
here is the list from OMRI of what is considerd organic and what is not. http://www.omri.org/pages2-3.pdf
this pdf confilcs with what i read in Advanced gardening mag
this pdf confilcs with what i read in Advanced gardening mag
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globel said:
What does that OMRI stuff mean anyhow ?
Isn't that just a label that manufacturers have to pay for, so that they can put the OMRI seal on their products, if their products are approved ?
There's some organic products that are widely used by pothead growers on this forum that aren't even listed there. I didn't see any Fox Farms products listed there at all, and I know that they make at least a few organic things, even though they also have some synthetic nutes also. I guess the OMRI certification isn't that important to them ?
i donno why OMRI evean exists i know that its like an independit review board for organic sence its all bull shit anyways they jumped in and made themeselfs king of organic registation.
HOWEVER there is a USDA organics list too i found it its here.
http://www.ams.usda.gov/nop/NationalList/ListHome.html
here is the exact pdf
http://www.ams.usda.gov/nop/archive/NOSBNationalListDatabase.pdf
HOWEVER there is a USDA organics list too i found it its here.
http://www.ams.usda.gov/nop/NationalList/ListHome.html
here is the exact pdf
http://www.ams.usda.gov/nop/archive/NOSBNationalListDatabase.pdf
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Kendo The Green
Member
Wikipedea
\Organic could mean:
Organic means it is, or once was, alive.
Organic chemistry is based on carbon, which is the basis for all living things.
Organic matter in soil is material that is, or once was, a plant or animal
Other definitions.
or·gan·ic (ôr-gnk)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or derived from living organisms: organic matter.
2. Of, relating to, or affecting a bodily organ: an organic disease.
3.
a. Of, marked by, or involving the use of fertilizers or pesticides that are strictly of animal or vegetable origin: organic vegetables; an organic farm.
b. Raised or conducted without the use of drugs, hormones, or synthetic chemicals: organic chicken; organic cattle farming.
c. Serving organic food: an organic restaurant.
d. Simple, healthful, and close to nature: an organic lifestyle.
4.
a. Having properties associated with living organisms.
b. Resembling a living organism in organization or development; interconnected: society as an organic whole.
5. Constituting an integral part of a whole; fundamental.
6. Law Denoting or relating to the fundamental or constitutional laws and precepts of a government or an organization.
7. Chemistry Of or designating carbon compounds.
n.
1. A substance, especially a fertilizer or pesticide, of animal or vegetable origin.
2. Chemistry An organic compound.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
\Organic could mean:
Organic means it is, or once was, alive.
Organic chemistry is based on carbon, which is the basis for all living things.
Organic matter in soil is material that is, or once was, a plant or animal
Other definitions.
or·gan·ic (ôr-gnk)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or derived from living organisms: organic matter.
2. Of, relating to, or affecting a bodily organ: an organic disease.
3.
a. Of, marked by, or involving the use of fertilizers or pesticides that are strictly of animal or vegetable origin: organic vegetables; an organic farm.
b. Raised or conducted without the use of drugs, hormones, or synthetic chemicals: organic chicken; organic cattle farming.
c. Serving organic food: an organic restaurant.
d. Simple, healthful, and close to nature: an organic lifestyle.
4.
a. Having properties associated with living organisms.
b. Resembling a living organism in organization or development; interconnected: society as an organic whole.
5. Constituting an integral part of a whole; fundamental.
6. Law Denoting or relating to the fundamental or constitutional laws and precepts of a government or an organization.
7. Chemistry Of or designating carbon compounds.
n.
1. A substance, especially a fertilizer or pesticide, of animal or vegetable origin.
2. Chemistry An organic compound.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grat3fulh3ad said:Ohhh... hydrogen from natural gas to convert nitrogen to amonia... good that you cleared that one up...
In that case...
COWS are petroleum factories, eh...
Isn't natural gas an ORGANIC compound?
It's good to know you are just using the term petro/chemical to describe natural gas because its a nice propaganda word which implied that oil is used.
Oh yeah... guess what happens to most of the natural gas which comes from oil wells... They just burn it off... right out there in the field...
I'd much rather see it converted to nutrient, than simply burned off into the atmosphere...
Cow farts are petrochemicals.
Natural gas is a gaseous fossil fuel consisting primarily of methane but including significant quantities of ethane, propane, butane, and pentane—heavy hydrocarbons removed later on as condensate—as well as carbon dioxide, nitrogen, helium and hydrogen sulfide. It is found in oil fields (associated) either dissolved or isolated in natural gas fields (non associated), and in coal beds (as coalbed methane).
When methane-rich gases are produced by the anaerobic decay of non-fossil organic material, these are referred to as biogas. Sources of biogas include swamps, marshes, and landfills (see landfill gas), as well as sewage sludge and manure by way of anaerobic digesters, in addition to enteric fermentation particularly in cattle.
So there's the first distinction.
Methane = Hydrocarbon
Petroleum = Hydrocarbon
One comes from natural gas, one comes from crude oil. They are BOTH hydrocarbons/fossil fuels and share the same basic properties.
You should also be careful about the usage of the word organic (natural) and organic (chemical compound primarily consisting of carbon)
Grat3fulh3ad said:
Do you know what the chemical composition of the compounds you are talking about are? Petroleum is made of Hydrogen, Carbon and Water. That's it. All 3. Not just Hydrogen - I never implied that anything containing Hydrogen is a petrochemical.
Who said anything about burning Hydrogen? I'm not sure where you got that from, you clearly didn't read the links I posted above.
Fossil fuel in the ground ------> Hydrogen used for Haber process------> Ammonia. There's no burning involved.
All that aside, there is no denying the following statement:
The Haber process now produces 100 million tons of nitrogen fertilizer per year, mostly in the form of anhydrous ammonia, ammonium nitrate, and urea. 0.75% of the world's annual energy supply is consumed in the Haber process (3.35% of world natural gas production is used for ammonia production, and natural gas represents 22% of world energy production. See also for rough estimate of 1% of energy production.) That fertilizer is responsible for sustaining one-third of the Earth's population, as well as various deleterious environmental consequences. Generation of hydrogen using electrolysis of water, using renewable energy, is NOT currently competitive cost-wise with hydrogen from fossil fuels, such as natural gas, and is responsible for only 4% of current hydrogen production.
Take it how you like, all I've done is presented facts. Everyones hydro nutes are made using a process which requires almost 1% of the planet energy (a huge amount) and uses fossil fuel hydrocarbons - essentially the same chemical composition as petroleum.
Sources you might like to look at:
International Energy Outlook 2007 Chapter on Natural gas
http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/ieo/nat_gas.html
Why are Nitrogen prices so high? from - Oklahoma Bioenergy Center
http://www.noble.org/Ag/Soils/NitrogenPrices/Index.htm
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Kendo The Green
Member
By definition
Rock Phosphates and even petrochemicals fall under the umbrella of organic.
Rock Phosphates and even petrochemicals fall under the umbrella of organic.
Kendo The Green said:
Hey Kendo - in your posted definition you posted all the adjectives as well, we're only interested in the nouns.
As you can see, there are two meanings to the word organic.
A manufactured chemical such as butane (your basic lighter fuel) has never been living and never will be a living organism. It is simply a chemical which contains Carbon. CH3CH2CH2CH3 However it is an organic chemical, the opposite of an inorganic chemical - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inorganic_compound.
because the hydrogen in the haber process comes from natural gas, not the nitrogen or any other element the plant is consuming.
and because if you took the exact same hydrogen molecule that would have been used in the haber process, and instead burn it it combines with oxygen to form water. water synthesized from petrochemical derived hydrogen...
Why do I need to distinguish organic? the second definition you just quoted says an organic compound... that means any organic chemical is organic...
This part of the definition... the ADJ portion which actually is relevant "7. Chemistry Of or designating carbon compounds." means that using the word organic to reference carbon compounds is 100% correct.
you know... I've said my piece, I'm not wrong, and I'm done with this discussion...
That the hydrogen used to make amonia may be hydrogen that is a byproduct of the pertoleum industry is irrelevant, that hydrogen is already going to end up in the environment somewhere... Calling it a petrochemical derived nutrient is just a propaganda word, since a large portion of the water molecules in the world came from burning hydrogen which has been released from natural gas or other carbon compounds which could also be called petrochemical...
I wonder if water bottles need to be labeled as potentially containing petrochemical derived water....
Oh hell... isn't water also an inorganic comound?
and because if you took the exact same hydrogen molecule that would have been used in the haber process, and instead burn it it combines with oxygen to form water. water synthesized from petrochemical derived hydrogen...
Why do I need to distinguish organic? the second definition you just quoted says an organic compound... that means any organic chemical is organic...
This part of the definition... the ADJ portion which actually is relevant "7. Chemistry Of or designating carbon compounds." means that using the word organic to reference carbon compounds is 100% correct.
you know... I've said my piece, I'm not wrong, and I'm done with this discussion...
That the hydrogen used to make amonia may be hydrogen that is a byproduct of the pertoleum industry is irrelevant, that hydrogen is already going to end up in the environment somewhere... Calling it a petrochemical derived nutrient is just a propaganda word, since a large portion of the water molecules in the world came from burning hydrogen which has been released from natural gas or other carbon compounds which could also be called petrochemical...
I wonder if water bottles need to be labeled as potentially containing petrochemical derived water....
Oh hell... isn't water also an inorganic comound?
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