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Are LEDs Misunderstood?
- Thread starter PetFlora
- Start date
U
unthing
Secontry,
I like your drive for perfection and you're smart, but most people in these threads won't accept accurate info (I really don't know is it ultimately accurate) when it is presented in this way. Please be polite, I know it's frustrating, but social things are that way many times.
I like your drive for perfection and you're smart, but most people in these threads won't accept accurate info (I really don't know is it ultimately accurate) when it is presented in this way. Please be polite, I know it's frustrating, but social things are that way many times.
S
secondtry
Because we know what PPFD offers the highest Pn (rate of photosynthesis), and we know the higher the Pn the happier and generally better yielding the plant. And using PPFD is a very easy way to measure the QE (Quantum Efficiency) of the lamp; while to use yield we need all those other factors I wrote about and I pasted again below. Simply stating yield is like giving us one piece of a puzzle and claiming the puzzle is solved. Do you see what I mean?
Oh, I am not going to report them here, I will do so on my own site, I want to control my own info, and the format of a forum tends to allow info to get lost, especially when mod's won't sticky threads worth being stickied [sic]. And I have a feeling if I did post the info it would get deleted by the mods anyway as I assume the data will not be great for LEDs, tho I could be wrong (like I have written many times). I will not molest the data in anyway, if it turns out LEDGirls new arrays do emit good PPFD then I would even use one...I want to use the best light source possible, and if that is LEDs then I am VERY happy to be a convert. My problem is no one has yet proven LED arrays are worth it; I feel the same as you do, tho my bar for "proving" is a bit higher I think.
I could care less what light system I use as long as it grows the best plants...
Great suggestion!
And that is something I already plan to do, that is why I put together my TLC (Thin Layer Chromatography) method. I will report by comparative assay and once I make my own "standards" I will report weight of cannabinoid (e.g., total THC, CBC, etc) to weight of harvest. That is a very valid suggestion and one often used in cannabis studies. For now I can also find the ratios of different cannabinoids to each other which is great too You measure efficiency using the work of Keith McCree (which needs to be updated for HID white light, he used monochromatic lighting so it's more accurate of testing LEDs), his Quantum Efficny and Quantum Flux Density is basically PPFD adjusted to the SPD. For now I will use PPFD and use the SPD together to rate a lamp's QE because to really weight the PPFD I need a spectroradiometer, I am buying the Ocean Optics brand but that will cost me about $5K so it will take about a year. The Li-Cor quantum sensor is only about $1k.
HTH and thanks for being cool, I am tyring to tone down my posting style.
secondtry: what you refer to is having 1 plant per 2m² at 5m height(maybe more, maybe less, but anyways unpracticable), thats not practical for indoors and just makes the 1 plant grow good, its nothing anyone here aims for, we want yield!! understand that please!
ppfd is connected to ppf, if a light source like a led, which doesnt waste photons by reflections on a reflector emits the same amount of ppf like an hid, which needs an reflector and have losses in absorbs on its own constructions AFTER reflections - there is NO WAY the hid can get a higher ppfd, thats why i think you lack basics of physics, you dont take in consideration all the points!! maybe you are clever but you just ignore rules to make your own theory look like gods law.. which is a fatal error you gonna notice earlier or later
and please stop telling that i lack understanding without any explanation (well.. good luck trying). ppfd is connected to ppf and EASILY calculatable if you got dimensions, and distance is the last you wanna take in consideration - YOU failed to understand that BASIC PHYSICAL RULE - i cant do anything but advise you to deep look the the basics again, im not a professor but im way enough educated to surely, with a good feeling, telling you that you are simply wrong understanding this part of physics!!
you saying you are a scientist so please act like one .. you should know what im referring to if you was as clever as you pretend
ppfd is connected to ppf, if a light source like a led, which doesnt waste photons by reflections on a reflector emits the same amount of ppf like an hid, which needs an reflector and have losses in absorbs on its own constructions AFTER reflections - there is NO WAY the hid can get a higher ppfd, thats why i think you lack basics of physics, you dont take in consideration all the points!! maybe you are clever but you just ignore rules to make your own theory look like gods law.. which is a fatal error you gonna notice earlier or later
and please stop telling that i lack understanding without any explanation (well.. good luck trying). ppfd is connected to ppf and EASILY calculatable if you got dimensions, and distance is the last you wanna take in consideration - YOU failed to understand that BASIC PHYSICAL RULE - i cant do anything but advise you to deep look the the basics again, im not a professor but im way enough educated to surely, with a good feeling, telling you that you are simply wrong understanding this part of physics!!
you saying you are a scientist so please act like one .. you should know what im referring to if you was as clever as you pretend
S
secondtry
I totally agree I do get kind of upset, and I am trying to be better about it. I get upset because I spend so much time studding and trying to help others when someone disregards proven science which took me years to learn and hours to post it kinda bothers me.
But your totally correct, I need to chill out and I am trying...I am not perfect at all, but I want to be.
S
secondtry
+1 billion on the documentation!
And I have tried to be nicer since your last appeal, I hope that has not gone unnoticed...
U
unthing
MeanBean,
You too, spare us from the hatred of the bulb as it's not constructive. People can pull qp with 150w hid in ventilated cupboard (search barnt, pipedream for example) and you've seen what people like VG can do with a 250 watter, so they're not useless. Not at all.
Just share your positive experiences and upward learning curve with leds
You too, spare us from the hatred of the bulb as it's not constructive. People can pull qp with 150w hid in ventilated cupboard (search barnt, pipedream for example) and you've seen what people like VG can do with a 250 watter, so they're not useless. Not at all.
Just share your positive experiences and upward learning curve with leds
hey..
Isn't light penetration one of the biggest problems with LEDs ..as it is also with cfls? ..so great 'scrog-lights', but..?
i have never ownd any led-panels, so i dunno..
I don't mind LEDs or compact fluoros at all, i think these are great for certain types growing ...and i'm a bit of a techno-geek (not the worst kind, and not too snobby, but still..), so all these gadgets are pretty cool to me ..LOL
Isn't light penetration one of the biggest problems with LEDs ..as it is also with cfls? ..so great 'scrog-lights', but..?
i have never ownd any led-panels, so i dunno..
I don't mind LEDs or compact fluoros at all, i think these are great for certain types growing ...and i'm a bit of a techno-geek (not the worst kind, and not too snobby, but still..), so all these gadgets are pretty cool to me ..LOL
oh, so now we see the agenda, you are here to spam up some traffic for your own site, you have hijacked and smothered two threads here, trumpeting some holy grail of tests that you are going to do (with a piece of equipment that you havent bought yet, and with lights and reflectors you seem to think that the manufacturers are going to give you - good luck with that) - yet IC are not worthy of the actual results of your tests! - you are unbelievable! .
no info? - you mean apart from the two very detailed grow diaries i have kept here where i show people how i grow actual plants and answer everyone's questions? that is what convinces the majority of people about these lights one way or the other - thats why i have been given a 205w unit to replace the 250cmh in my bigger cab - because my results with the 63w (that you are so dismissive of) have persuaded many people to buy a light. LEDGirl is very brave to give lights to people to run public tests with, she has a confidence in her product which i respect.
LMFAO - such is the level of your narcissism that you will presume an apology i addressed to freezerboy was meant for you. that takes the cake that does!. after you left a few months back in a fit of pique I was one of the few people that tried to persuade you to come back because i thought you had some useful contribution to make, and then you show up again with a different nick. and a short time later start sending me rude and accusatory PM's. well you have taught me something - that some people arent worth trying to help because dealing with their odious attitude and childishness is never going to be worth the contribution that they might make. you are a frustrated grower. if you had any great experience of growing actual plants then you would realise the value of it and reference that experience along with the scientific data you throw at us.
fool me once - shame on you. fool me twice - shame on me.
VG.
S
secondtry
I doubt it, but you could call Ocean Optics and ask them about it. This is the unit I plan to buy, it's better than the one Sanjay Yoshi uses, he was the one to suggset Ocean Optics to me
http://www.oceanoptics.com/products/usb2000+rad.asp
HTH and GL!
MB makes a good point. the 250 hps cab in my loft has a temp controlled 4" fan which has 4 speeds. even having used sound damping tape to isolate vibrations i can still hear it on it's lowest speed in my bedroom which is on the floor below.
VG
U
unthing
4" sounds bit small=noisy. But I really don't know your loft-situation so can't comment. Damn you british people with paperthin walls
Regarding that 80cfm thing, could you explain it little more, I mean don't those fans in the panel move air even more than that? 6 fans make noise on their own. Bigger fans make lower hum which is easier to mask. Even the ufo made more noise than I've ever used to cool hid. I opened it up and it had 3x8 centimeter fans blasting at 15 volts(high rpm)= high pitched noise. I'm just confused about this as the couple of ledproducts I've seen aren't that quiet. Please explain in detail.
Regarding that 80cfm thing, could you explain it little more, I mean don't those fans in the panel move air even more than that? 6 fans make noise on their own. Bigger fans make lower hum which is easier to mask. Even the ufo made more noise than I've ever used to cool hid. I opened it up and it had 3x8 centimeter fans blasting at 15 volts(high rpm)= high pitched noise. I'm just confused about this as the couple of ledproducts I've seen aren't that quiet. Please explain in detail.
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VG, you might want to look into sound proofing your fan and air if noise is a concern or anything like that..
I have my 6" in a box with sound proofing foam, and silencers on both sides and it is very quiet on full speed.. come to think of it, I don't even know why I have a 6" fan....
Its all about the money argue till your blue in the face, LEDS could grow monster buds with BLUE RESIN, but the simple truth is, you buy whats available and you buy the better deal.
Until big company takes notice and the prices drop dramatically i dont see them being mainstream at all, not even close.
Are Leds Misunderstood , yes i believe they are, but so are teenagers.
Until big company takes notice and the prices drop dramatically i dont see them being mainstream at all, not even close.
Are Leds Misunderstood , yes i believe they are, but so are teenagers.
unthing, the fans on the LED units from hydro grow are very quiet - almost silent.
my exhaust fan is a 4" inline fan - a ruck temperature controlled one - very expensive but worth it to keep the environment stable
it has 4 sets of windings and a temperature sensor so it is unlike a fan speed controller it doesnt hum or anything. the fan is isolated from the cab using rubber chords and the cab is isloated from the floor using sounddamping foam tape. but u can still hear it in the room below - not loud but you can hear it on its lowest setting. not such a problem to me because it is my bedroom and i own my own house - but if you are looking for an ultra stealthy setup then that level of extraction may be a problem that is rmoved by using LED'S .
habeeb - yeah its not a problem to me but may be to other people who want a super stealth setup.
my exhaust fan is a 4" inline fan - a ruck temperature controlled one - very expensive but worth it to keep the environment stable
it has 4 sets of windings and a temperature sensor so it is unlike a fan speed controller it doesnt hum or anything. the fan is isolated from the cab using rubber chords and the cab is isloated from the floor using sounddamping foam tape. but u can still hear it in the room below - not loud but you can hear it on its lowest setting. not such a problem to me because it is my bedroom and i own my own house - but if you are looking for an ultra stealthy setup then that level of extraction may be a problem that is rmoved by using LED'S .
habeeb - yeah its not a problem to me but may be to other people who want a super stealth setup.
U
unthing
Um, I have the 126w and it's not silent at all so I'm confused even more. Imagine 6 fans of overheated laptop blasting at full speed, that's what it sounds like. Not that it cannot be hidden but there's no stealthy advantage.
