Are ACE 'pure' strains really pure?

[mriko]

If you want landrace with all the variety that can comes along the RSC is the way to go, but ACE do propose landraces genetics that have been bred and selected for specific traits and expressions (some more than others - Honduras vs. Malawi or Panama for instance), making them more manageable and adaptable to different growing conditions. If not "landraces" per se, those are still landrace genetics and, unless mentioned otherwise, those are pure indeed. Pure, stabilized landraces strains, that's what they are.
Oh, and RSC does offer seeds coming from reproductions made out of the region of origin (Lebanon or Yarkhun).

Irie!

 

[clearheaded]

whats untrue is the phylos galaxy is using genetics and not terpene profiles lol. that is made up. as they do genetics on seeds which as we know dont contain terps. I think thcv got confused as there is talk of chemotype grouping ie terpenoline or myrcene dom var. or finding out what terps come from what genetic backround. anyway not sure where he got his info from but it most certainly is wrong if not misguided.

What they can do is use varified genetic material collected from 70s in different locals. They can compare genetics so u can see if skunk is part of that thai u have. they also can tell genetic variety so when has low genetic variation it likely is a IBL.

Anyway they most certianly use genetics and not terpenes or cannibinoids. and actually make interesting notes of how genetic identical clones can produce varying amounts of CBD for example. As we all have observed taste differences even if come from clone depending on environment it was grown.

phylos also uses genetic to determine sex of plants I assure you they arent using terps. lol prob didnt need to go on for so long. troll got me i guess lol.

 

[therevverend]

The thing is, everything started out as a landrace or close to it at some point. For instance Skunk #1. It's a hybrid of Afghani x Columbian x Mexican bred in the 70s.

It's very comparable to Bangi Haze which is Congolese x (KONGO # 3 x Pakistan Chitrali). I believe Kongo #3 is an African hybrid with a short flowering time but I'm not sure. All three of these strains have been grown in Spain for a while at least since the 80s and 90s.

Pakistan Chitral is in the Hindu Kush mountain range so you could call Bangi Haze a Bangi Kush if you wanted to be a jackass. People get far too caught up in names I think a better idea is to choose strains with effects you enjoy. I don't know if a strain that's true breeding or not has any difference in it's effects. If you want to call a strain 'pure' because it has narrow leaves or wide leaves or whatever that's cool as long as you like it. I like a real dirty bitch every now and then myself..

 

[mriko]

A strain "purity" has nothing to do with leaf shape, where did you get that??

Irie!

 

[Water-]

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[Water-]

whats untrue is the phylos galaxy is using genetics and not terpene profiles lol. that is made up. as they do genetics on seeds which as we know dont contain terps. I think thcv got confused as there is talk of chemotype grouping ie terpenoline or myrcene dom var. or finding out what terps come from what genetic backround. anyway not sure where he got his info from but it most certainly is wrong if not misguided.

What they can do is use varified genetic material collected from 70s in different locals. They can compare genetics so u can see if skunk is part of that thai u have. they also can tell genetic variety so when has low genetic variation it likely is a IBL.

Anyway they most certianly use genetics and not terpenes or cannibinoids. and actually make interesting notes of how genetic identical clones can produce varying amounts of CBD for example. As we all have observed taste differences even if come from clone depending on environment it was grown.

phylos also uses genetic to determine sex of plants I assure you they arent using terps. lol prob didnt need to go on for so long. troll got me i guess lol.

thank you for saving me from having to reply.

aloha

 

[red23]

TBH i don't really know.... i don't have any specific expectations, other than to experience some pure landrace genetics to see for myself.

Hi Igni.Are the seeds,to be grown indoors or outdoors?

 

[therevverend]

A strain "purity" has nothing to do with leaf shape, where did you get that??

Of course you can't tell if a plant is pure breeding or not by leaf shape. I've seen unhybridized Afghans with wide leaves and I've seen hybrids with wide leaves. Narrow leaf plants that are hybrids and narrow leaved plants that are not hybrids. I'm sure you know this I think you misunderstood what I said. Over time and conditions strains of cannabis can change their leaf shape. A narrow leaf strain can develop wider leaves at higher altitudes and latitudes and vice versa. It's not the best way to determine strain type as hybrids are all across the board in leaf shape. On top of that as to whether or not a strain is pure breeding not at all.

'Purity' is a confusing term I can't think of a concept society misuses more. It's got all sorts of ethical and religious baggage. A landrace strain doesn't necessarily equal pure breeding I've certainly seen different phenotypes from a single landrace. Strain or variety are better terms and that breaks down into 'pure breeding' or 'not pure breeding' but that affects the grower and not the consumer.

 

[therevverend]

If you want landrace with all the variety that can comes along the RSC is the way to go, but ACE do propose landraces genetics that have been bred and selected for specific traits and expressions (some more than others - Honduras vs. Malawi or Panama for instance), making them more manageable and adaptable to different growing conditions. If not "landraces" per se, those are still landrace genetics and, unless mentioned otherwise, those are pure indeed. Pure, stabilized landraces strains, that's what they are.

I've already said this but almost all strains are 'pure stabilized landrace genetics'. OG Kush is Afghan Indica landrace x Lemon Thai landrace. Northern Lights is pure landrace genetics Afghani x Thai. By your and Ace's definition you can claim any strain is landrace. It's very misleading.

I've been avoiding getting into how hybridized Ace's strains are, what they've used to shorten flowering times, increase crystal size and density because it gets contentious. For whatever reason people have decided that 'Indica' or 'Afghani' are bad words and 'impure'.

I've looked at the genetic analysis of Ace's strains and they show genetic variation too much to be called pure breeding. But pure breeding strains are very rare.

What the genetic analysis shows that makes Ace attractive to me is that a lot of their genetics are different then the more common ones. Ace's Panama is a good example. It's genotype is fairly uncommon. Not super rare like some landrace genotypes but quite a bit different then most of the other strains out there.

This makes it attractive to me as a consumer and breeder. Strains containing genes from Central America have never been common among cannabis growers. This is where Ace excels, collecting genetics from less common varieties and making them accessible to the cannabis community.

This is where the 'Afghani landrace' genes become a problem so many strains contain these genes it's become difficult to find strains without it. It's not that these genes are impure or not landrace or whatever it's that they're found everywhere. For a good reason they excel at lowering flower times and increasing resin coverage but it's a good idea to have strains that either don't contain these genes or have a small amount. To maintain genetic diversity.

And I'm guessing this is what people are trying to express when they say something is descended from landraces or is a landrace or is pure. It's come to mean varieties that don't contain very many Afghani genes.

 

[Infinitelight5D]

It's very comparable to Bangi Haze which is Congolese x (KONGO # 3 x Pakistan Chitrali).

Can you show me where you got this info? I thought it was congolese x nepalese

 

[zif]

I've already said this but almost all strains are 'pure stabilized landrace genetics'.

That's a very odd statement.

Most 'strains' at this point are the result of many generations of 1:1 crosses of polyhybrid 'elites' of unknown (but likely high) heterozygosity. Few have even one parent from a stabilized line. And almost none are derived exclusively from stabilization of a single landrace variety.

Landrace preservationists *should* seek 'unstabilized' region of origin seed lots.

People just interested in experiencing what landrace genetics can offer at their best, will probably prefer the worked lines companies like ACE offer.

In both cases, though, they'll be getting something super different from the hype chuck of this picosecond.

 

[willydread]

I believe that ACE has landraces, worked but not hybridized, and put on the market ...
However, it must be specified that almost no one in the catalog has real landraces, ie varieties collected in the field (if I'm not mistaken even some RSC strains are reproduced in Europe), it is also true that seeds collected in Colombia (for example) is not said to be pure , maybe they were hybridized ten years ago ...
Ps indica is not the devil, but if I take a south Indian variety it should not contain indica, and vice versa an afghana can not have mexican genes

 

[EvergreenState]

I'm just guessing here but from what I've read about "PURE" strains is that they take a great deal of work and usually crossing them with other strains, just to get them to the point that they are somewhat stable enough to create seeds that growers could actually grow. In other words if you got some pure landrace seeds, the odds are that you wouldn't be able to grow them, at least indoors. They might also take so long to flower as to be almost totally impractical outdoors as well; except in specific climates.
The Ace Nicaragua shows high landrace genetics and is pretty true breeding. Give them a shot because they are probably as close as you are going to get to pure landrace that you can actually grow.
If you are gagging to try pure landraces then you would be better off to travel to the countries where they are grown.

 

[willydread]

At the moment I have a female from Honduras who is much wilder than oldtimer haze x thai or any other variety she has had ...
I repeat, I'm not a fan boy of ACE or other sb, but I've never seen differences between the descriptions and the plants themselves ...

 

[OnceUpon]

hey all
having smoked and grown a lor of ace in the past 2 years. i would say if you want a good tast of what an african, or central american variety is like... compared to the hype clone domnated market....ace has a diverse representation of different place of origin cannabis varieties.

i have also always found dubi to be up front about where his stock was obtained from.

it seems most true sativa vareties... at least from the major cannabis cultivation areas. were hybridized in the 70's

i grew cannabiogen mangobiche indoor... and it was wild... but also, has some tight nuggies i didnt expect

"landrace" is grey area... does it only apply to feral or wild cannabis?....heirloom and cultivar may be more appropriate sometimes

there is a wide gap between ever flowering never been touched NLD varieties from grandmas farmin the jungle.... to seed picked from brick weed, that may have been hybridized on lacation... then passed down the generations.

all cannabis lineage is sketchy at best
but i appreciate the ones who at least try their best to tell the story how it came to them

i think the guy who said what are your expectations was spot on

cheers

 

[Ignignokt]

As i haven't really been too concerned with 'landrace' or 'pure' genetics in the past i think that my idea of what that actually is, is a little bit misguided or misunderstood.

I imagined that there were still pockets of wild cannabis that was basically untouched, which were probably scraggly looking but had 'cleaner' smoother effects (or something like that), and that they would be able to be identified by connoisseurs/experts by the effects alone, even if they never saw the herb they were having.

Uninformed fantasy?

 

[MrFecund]

Quote:
Originally Posted by therevverend
It's very comparable to Bangi Haze which is Congolese x (KONGO # 3 x Pakistan Chitrali).
Can you show me where you got this info? I thought it was congolese x nepalese

those are congos genetics not bangi haze

 

[therevverend]

Of course we're lumping Ace's many many different strains together. Their catalog is diverse they have Indicas, Sativas, Autoflowers, hybrids. A strain like their Nicaraguan line or Mangobiche standard is much much closer to the original landrace then Bangi Haze or Malawi. Their Lebanese is another one that is very very similar to the original landrace. I wish their catalog would tell people this instead of calling everything they have landrace.

Originally Posted by therevverend
''I've already said this but almost all strains are 'pure stabilized landrace genetics'.''

That's a very odd statement.

Most 'strains' at this point are the result of many generations of 1:1 crosses of polyhybrid 'elites' of unknown (but likely high) heterozygosity. Few have even one parent from a stabilized line. And almost none are derived exclusively from stabilization of a single landrace variety.

The original poster meant 'stabilized' as in easy for the novice grower, shorter flowering times, unlikely to reverse sex, etc. Achieved from hybridization and selection of 'pure landrace varieties'. If you think it's an odd statement that is my entire point. Take it up with Ace and the earlier poster because I already said I think it's misleading. Once you start crossing multiple landrace strains over multiple generations they cease to be landraces.

Can you show me where you got this info? I thought it was congolese x nepalese

those are congos genetics not bangi haze

Sorry Bangi Haze is a mash up of strains I forgot about the Nepalese. It's actually (Congolese x (KONGO # 3 x Pakistan Chitrali)) X Nepalese). I got it from the Cannabiogen description of it. It's the Congo you're thinking of crossed by Nepalese. Most Ace descriptions omit the Kongo #3 x Paki Chitrali part just list it as Congo x Nepalese probably because it's easier..

I don't like this exercise because I like Ace and I like their strains. Most of them are poly hybrids that have been bred using the same methods as all the other strains out there. They've been worked and bred on and crossed for many years before Ace got a hold of them. There's other people who know more about their histories then me I'm not qualified to get into each one individually.

They've been selected for shorter flowering times, bigger buds, etc. All the stuff that most landraces are not. A big difference is that many of their selected lines are focused on narrow leaf strains instead of wide leaf strains. Which means a completely different range of effects then people are used to and that many people enjoy.

Keep in mind that many landraces cause couch lock, lack of energy, inability to communicate, in some people. These are often from the Middle East, Central Asia, and to a certain extent, Columbia. The lines used for Ace's strains contain very little of these genetics which is another reason people including me like Ace's strains.

 

[therevverend]

Uninformed fantasy?

Or idealism? I think there was a Fabulous Furry Freak Brother comic about that.

The place you want to go is Kazakhstan. Most supposedly 'wild' cannabis around the world is actually feral escapees from cultivation. There's a region called the Chui Valley the size of France in Kazakhstan that contains over 30,000 hectares of true wild cannabis. It contains around 4% THC which is very high for wild ganja. It's not much by modern standards but if you make it into hashish it's plenty strong.

There's stories about men riding horses through the fields and coming out completely covered in hand rubbed hashish. The Kazakh government has been struggling with what to do about it. They've tried eradicating it but it's too much. They've tried to get Western drug companies interested and no one was interested. They're trying to turn it all into hemp, making paper out of it which has potential but would be very destructive.

http://enews.fergananews.com/articles/2569

I'm amazed that it hasn't been studied or explored by Westerners or researchers. The genetics are priceless if all the cannabis in the world is descended from it. Amazing that Phylos hasn't studied it for instance. I'd love to get my hands on some seeds. If it really is the Mother of all Cannabis the region should be made into a reserve much like they've done for the area where apples originated. Which is also in Kazakhstan.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/arti...appear-to-have-been-planted-in-kazakh-capital

 

[beta]

Unless you're a breeder, you have no reason to hold and grow landraces - They're usually trash when it comes to the traits we care about. The reason breeders like them is that they *might* have unique individual traits somewhere in their genome that we can combine with modern cultivars.