Aquaponics Rocks

[Guest]

Fish health is tricky allright.

One thing you could do is practise preventative measures. This is something I've promised I'd get into at some stage.

The biggest problem with caring for your fish is often that the vets bill is worth more than the fish. Even Fishstore bought product costs too much when you factor in the drive, the time, the set-up of a medical tank if it's contagious. Then the possibility of your diagnosis being correct is slim as well...

It's when the fish are worth hundreds, or the whole tank is threatened that fish medicine takes a priority status, often too late.

The best thing we can do for our fish is give them good conditions and be wary of what we introduce to their environment.

Aquaponic systems can easily provide a prime environment for your fish provided your circulation, aeration, bio-filter volume, stocking rates, and temperatures, are correct.

To this extent the first thing we should note in preventative fish medicine is that our fish species temperature requirements should match as closely as possible the temperature ranges associated with hydro and bio growing in your area.

Temperatures too high will also starve oxygen and create conditions for infection.

Water circulation is another good preventative measure. If there are no 'dead spots' in your systems water stream the chances of pathogens housed in anaerobic pockets of film or 'floc' is reduced greatly. It is a commonly held belief that most fish diseases and pathogens are ever present, only requiring the right conditions to proliferate.

Aeration. plants, algae (an ever present and vital part of your bio-filter) and fish all compete for your systems O2 so dont skimp on Aeration.

Many occupants of an established bio-film are active scavengers of pathogens, algae, plant waste, and other bacteria. An established bio-film in a well set up system will work for you forever attacking pests and bad bacteria both entering and within your system. However, if there is not enough filtration to process all the wastes (plants, fish, nutes) in your system, problems will arrive fast.

Stocking rates. High density stocking rates leave little for your system to be able to buffer. Less fish and more water provides stability and any problem within the system is diluted.

Then there's diet. Many fish foods are 'junk food' and the manufacturers have not bothered to research their specific ingredients properly. These foods cause many health and growth problems in fish particularly salmonids.

I'll go get a doob then it's 'anti-nutrient time.

 

[Guest]

Anti-Nutrients

Fish foods containing the following products should be avoided.


Soybean


- Trypsin Inhibitors -
Growth inhibition, higher protein diet (35% plus) reduces inhibiting effects.

- Hemaglutinating Agents - (lectins)
In vitro agglutination of red blood cells. Inactivated by stomachs pepsin - no adverse reaction in fish with true stomach.

- Phytic Acid -
reduced bio-availabilty of proteins and minerals manganese, zinc, molybdenum, calcium, copper, magnesium and iron.


Cottonseed Meal

- Cyclopropenoic acids -
Lesions, carcinogenic.

- Gossypol -
Growth inhibitor, carcinogenic.


Rapeseed Oil - Oilseed Crops

- Erucic Acid -
Cardiotoxic, mortality, pathologies of skin gills, kidneys and heart.

- Glucosolinates -
Antithyroid problems, bio-activity causes products to release thiocyanate ions, isothiocyanates, goitrin, and nitrite.


Shellfish

- Algal and marine toxins -
Widespread mortality.


Dried Shrimp

- mycotoxins, dietary lipids, algal toxins -


Marine Fishmeal

- Arsenic, Mercury -


Oxidative Rancidity occurs when oxidised oils are introduced in fish feed. Oxidation of unsaturated lipids produces free radicals, peroxides, hydroperoxides, aldehydes, and ketones. These may be toxic or react with other diet and reduce the nutritional value. Synthetic or naturally occuring antioxidants in your fishes diet will combat adverse effects of oxidative rancidity.


Thiaminase is a thiamin destroying enzyme present in raw fish. Heating raw fish reduces thiaminase activity.


Freshness is important. Food for fish has a life span, much the same as human food, and should be brought stored and apportioned accordingly.


Polychlorinated Biphenyls (PCBs) are widely used industrially as plasticizers and as heat-transfer, dielectric, and hydraulic fluids. They are poorly biodegraded and accumulate in lipids, and have been found in marine and freshwater organisms from almost all areas of the United States - (If you hate this fact like I do write to your Senator about it)

Can be lethal.

Sublethal effects of PCB exposure in fish include liver enlargement, lesions in the liver ultrastructure, inhibition of hepatic aryl hydrocarbon hydroxylase and other hepatic microsomal enzymes and decreased thyroid activity.

These compounds accumulate in fish tissues, therefore, prolonged feeding of dietary concentrations below the toxicity level may result in tissue accumulation that would be toxic to the fish or are above FDA-approved levels (0.2 mg/kg) for human food.

 

[RM - aquagrower]

one thing that i learned about fish health is to avoid "pictus catfish" like the plague! these are the gray and black, long wiskered cat fishes at most pet stores. they are susseptable (sp?) to a form of ich which will wipe out a tank. i've been thru thi it several times.

as to water quality, imo the most important thing is to simply keep the water moving. i view water (and air for that matter) as being a "living thing" that will die if it stops moving. and death spreads.

i forgot to take the weekly pics last night , so i'll get them tonight, and get them up a day late. been real busy lately!

 

[RM - aquagrower]

here's our Nl bud



door way shot



and a little pic of the ice plant close up



damn, i love aqua!

 

[BakedBeans]

Just wanted to drop a note in here, now that I can finally post, and say that I'm working on a big project. I'm starting off slowly, but I want to get to the point where I have a self-sustaining (or near-sustainable) aqua system, but I want to do it on a larger scale. I'm actually interested in growing berries and other fruits that are hard to grow right without pesticides. I want to sell these to local markets and co-ops here and make a legitimate business venture out of it.

Thing is, I love my pot, and I've always wanted to grow. I'm working on an indoor cabinet right now while I look for some land to start fresh with (greenhouses/growhouses). I've got big plans.

You guys have given me inspiration. I'm a computer engineer by trade, but I'm really tired of the industry (been at it for over a decade now). I'm still young, and I'm much more interested in focusing my attention on learning botany and hydroponic/aquaponic production. I only want to grow small amounts of cannabis, well, unless I get good at it.

I'll be sure to watch this thread. You guys seem to have a big headstart.

I'm actually thinking about ordering that Aussie guy's book/DVD. It's $100, but it might be chock full of useful info.

 

[Guest]

Nice one RM those plants are certainly taking off.

The JH is still fluffy. I blame temps and bad air circulation. The strength is better, it only takes a small amount, but the stone isn't very strong, just long.

I'll definately be seeking better genetics though the next plant will be finished at lower temps with the main buds right on top of the canopy - time will tell.

Nice to have a reasonable stash again though, this town is dry. I think the gangs are removing all their weed from the market to drive prices up but even worse - to sell other products in place of MJ. Another good reason to legalise.

The amount of new drugs coming onto the market is frightening, none of them natural.

A lot of our teens are now up partying 3 days straight and then suffering the other 4 days of the week then they do it again. The yound beautiful 'thin and in' crowd is beginning to resemble a bunch of crack ho's and war refugees.

Overgrowing the place is more important than ever.

Sooner or later the towns going to crash...

@ BB. Welcome aboard. In a commercial operation you will have your livelihood at stake. Spend the $100 it's nothing compared to what you could lose.

Greenhousing yes, controlled environment and good storm insurance.

Feel free to compare notes here we will give you the best possible feedback according to our present knowledge.

If I had your plans I would now be studying -

Why those berries are so difficult to grow.
What pests and diseases affect these and is there organic control.

Also - system designs, there's lots of ways to make it harder....

Grow beds above your fish have several benefits.

One pump - use gravity return.
Thermal Stability - put the fish in the ground.
Save your back - raised beds = less bending.

I wish you all the best.

There are some other techs could make your Greenhouse extremely efficient I have to go to work I'll get to them later today.

 

[RM - aquagrower]

BB,
glad to see that you're intrested in going aqua. sounds like ya got some big plans.

the most importent thing is to start with a sound design. plan, plan, and then plan some more. after that tho, believe it or not, this is a suprisingly simple system to run.

i'm in the process of building a new veg chamber, and i'll be posting pics of my grow stations during construction. same design could easily be scaled back to "cab size".

THS,
glad ya like the pics. so far these are the best looking plants that i've grown to date. mother nature is showing me her wares as well, and i too am impressed!

i know what ya mean about all those other drugs hitting the nieborhood. happened here a couple years ago and cost me most of my family, and all of my friends. evil shit, i tell ya

 

[Guest]

Hmm, lost some links and can't find what I wanted to show.

2 BB. There are heating/cooling devices made these days (ground thermal coils?) that are a coil of pipe underground. In summer they heat in winter they cool. The most efficient of all these systems is a coil under a pond.

Worth searching and looking at...

I just got a mother of an exhaust fan it goes in today fingers crossed I can hook it all up ok. This should solve 2 problems at once. Temperature and humidity.

The plant I left that extra week is WAY stronger. So - JH in Aqua - 77 days flower! It hits immediately but is a creeper and 5 minutes later I was toast - numb face, surging feelng through my head and body, and bliss, all of it you feel bliss, in the strong one you fell bliss-full!

Yummy, I still want couchlock to compliment it. Time will provide.

The next plant is big and beautiful, fingers crossed we lose the fluff with proper ventlation.

 

[BakedBeans]

Wow, great things to start thinking about. Thanks for your comments guys.

I ran across Waterfield Farms at www.bioshelters.com. *That* guy has got it down, though only with Basil and Tilapia.

Just makes me think of what all I could do with something like, peaches. I don't believe you can currently get organic peaches due to bugs. I *have* seen pictures of them done in a hydro/greenhouse setup and it looks amazing!

My state borders Mexico, and we almost never get freezes. When it happens, it's like once a year for a few days or something. The worst thing we have is 105+ degree Summers. The pond idea sounds very interesting though, I'll look into coil heating. That would be awesome if I could run like, a Bass pond and grow championship Bass or something. I could work with the Fish dept to release them into local waters or something like that. Maybe, I dunno.

Tons of possibilities!

 

[BakedBeans]

Has anyone looked into Degassing units for a larger aqua setup? If you had a two building system, one greenhouse and one insulated metal building for fish, you could theoretically degass the fish house (and if you have a lot of fish, that's a lot of CO2!), and inject into the greenhouse. You could use a sensor-fed simple circuit to open and close vents, or perhaps tune how much gas goes to plants and how much gets vented outside using multiple pipes.

The reason for multiple buildings is for temperature and climate control, of course. This would definitely be a commercial operation.


Oh, I was looking at Geothermal heating and cooling and that stuff is the bomb! I want to build my house with that stuff. The ability to heat & cool very efficiently in the moderate temperatures would work wonderful where I am. It stayed around 50-70 for most of the winter with only one slight, brief freeze. Problem is the summer can be over 100, sometimes up to 110. I am considering land in my case, however, and would be very interested in a larger sized pond to hold one of the coils. I bet you could pass the thermal coil first into the pond bottom, and then down 2 x 200 foot deep holes. That would allow you pretty good versatility, I think. I'd need to think about it more, but I'm freaking stoned. I really should be in bed, actually. Got work.

hah

 

[Guest]

Glad you liked the coils. Thermal coils the proper name or Geothermal?

Here's how I'd envision a kick-ass money making eco system with what I've studied to date.

Dream System.

Step by Step. Site constructed to utilise Winters sun as well as possible.

1. Ground coils and circumference drainage placed. - Ground coils for heating and cooling, drainage to keep your site (especially your ponds) safe from subsidence and flooding.

2. Bottom Drainage for ponds to pump housing sites. - Bottom drainage = efficient solids removal, fish wastes ALL eventually sink. Gravity assists pump workloads.

3. Power and water supply. - Right to where you need it. Plan plan plan!

4. Ponds consrtucted within greenhouse site. - More smaller ponds as opposed to one large one. This means you can - grade fish, isolate diseases and pests, raise conflicting species, run different crops with different nutritional demands. Raise Fry. Experiment. The downside is more feeding each day, more pump maintenance, though in this system you should never need to touch the pump more than monthly.

5. Raised bed construction. - Both on top of the fish and inbetween. I envisage 1 pond per 3 grow beds of similar surface area. Access for harvest replanting, maintenance etc all to be thought of ahead of time.

6. Pumps and plumbing. - External pumps are situated outside and a little below the surface of your pond so gravity works with the pump. A check valve installed between the pond and pump for maintenance. Water pumped up to the beds. Pumps pulverise the solids which settle in the beds and are 'nitrified'. Water then gravity returned from beds to the ponds.

7. Greenhouse construction. - 3 times the surface area needed for adequate ventilation to be used with insect screens. (insect screens reduce airflow by 66%). Fans in larger internal insect screened boxes to ensure high airflow. Lots of gables. Automated gables and ventilation. Good access for harvest and removal of crops. All gables and doors insect screened. External planting around greenhouse - mint, pyrethrum, garlic, pansies, etc.

8. Bio-digestor. - Once you begin harvesting regularly in a large operation you'll have lots of waste - leaf matter and root systems, some dead fish, fish preparation wastes, etc. A portion of this should be used to farm worms as dietary supplements for high-protein demanding fish species. The rest - Use a bio-digestor to turn this into gas for heating and lighting your greenhouse.

9. Shallow ponds system. From the digestor comes waste. This is utilised in green and white water ponds to create plankton for fish feed.

There you have it. Free power, free percentage of high quality organic fish food, zero waste.



My new fan got hooked to the old one with ducting to make a turbo. Dropped the temp 5 degrees and the humidity is gone too. No sweating when I work in there now as opposed to the sauna. The organic stuff I had for thrip and powdery mildew wasn't doing that well, I think it will be much better now conditions are favourable. It even 'feels' nicer in there.

The weed dried right out from 77 days kicks ass. It's fluffy, it could be better, but it kicks ass and is a VERY nice stone. I have it 4 times a day as opposed to 6-8 so it's definately got staying power I'm an absolute pig for weed.

Just a bit of moisture content makes it so much weaker, more so than other strains imo. nice to know the length of grow and when to smoke etc now (crispy!). I have high hopes the next plant in new improved air environment will be chunkier. It looks f'n great must give pics soon this thread has lots of big words.

 

[Guest]

On degassing - I'm not sure if this has been done yet it sounds feasible. A problem you'll face...

Sulphur dioxide - This will need to be scrubbed out of the gas. Metal not good with aqua, stainless perhaps. Things rust very fast I believe it is the sulphur dioxide at work.

 

[BakedBeans]

Wow, lots to think about there. I'll post back soon.

One question though, how to you efficiently tend to your fish ponds when there are planting beds over them? I can see the benefits, but I can also see how temperatures could be affected. Plants might not want to grow so well in the water temps the fish need. You would also have to account for the water running through the plant medium and either heating or cooling (or doing nothing, I suppose.

Man I really want this setup. It would be expensive, I imagine, but not hellaciously so. In fact, seeing as how a crappy package of basic Blueberries at your neighborhood grocery store is $3.50, and that's only 5oz, I'm thinking that between fish harvesting and your produce you could make out pretty well and have it paid off in a few years, assuming marketing and business is well baked.

 

[irie-i]

thseek: i am designing my farm with permaculture and sustainabilty in mind. i like your ideas.
btw what organic stiff do you use for thrips and powderymildew?

 

[RM - aquagrower]

hey fellas, time for the weekly update. buds are starting to fill in a bit now.

we're at about 6 weeks flowering

 

[RM - aquagrower]

seems that the ice likes aqua a bit more then the NL. she's gonna end up a monster. i'm thinking she'll produce 4-6 oz easily. probably get 2-3 oz from each NL. next run will be all ice.

i'm getting a bit of "bleaching" in the fan leaves directly under the lights. more so on the NL. i gave them 3 oz of pure blend bloom (bubbled for 24 hours) the other day. so we'll see what happens.

seeing that the bleaching is just in the area under the lights, it leads me to believe that it's just too much light this late in flowering. the plants "thinks" that it's fall, and thus the sun wouldn't be quite as intense.

maybe one of these days i'll pick up a couple of conversion bulbs, and put the girls under MH for their final week as an experiment. them fuckers are spendy tho.

 

[Guest]

Niiice! or is that NiiICE!

Err - organics first. I use a local product with a garlic base Irie-I. This will control but not eradicate thrip as they hide in the tiniest places. I also have hanging sticky strips. These are yellow which is meant to be bad as it attracts thrip... They've kept whitefly and fungus gnat populations down so well they stay. (and a good clean growroom made a HUGE difference).

The product is called Aquaticus glow, requires 3 applications, and imo TLC around fish as it contains oils that may have oxidised. I'll be looking into antioxidants for fish shortly, stay tuned!

Best would be predators - can't justify the expense till I have a greehouse sized garden to wory about.

BB - Get fish local that are - edible and - like the water at a temperature your plants like. For water cooling you could easily make a trickle tower as part of your filtration process. Water MUST circulate constantly through your entire system to maintain it's health and quality. RM is more an expert on these matters - any ideas on a larger cooling unit using water flow as opposed to power RM?

Blueberries grow in small shrubs and only provide 1 harvest a year. This can be fairly substantial for the plants size but factor in the blueberries will only provide cheques 2-3 months of the year.

Part of your planning should be a marketing plan and a budget.

ALWAYS leave surplus budget for emergencies and get as little backing as possible to maintain control, and sleep at night.

RM - keep those temps good, easy with the supplements (I don't know PB, just be sparing, you know...) and nature will provide the goods.

I have 11 new fish.

My creek dried up completely I searched the bed and under a rock right in the centres of two previous pools lay these fish, side by side head to toe like sardines, praying for water. They were all high and dry. I got them and sprinted home and put them in the native tank. Added about 150 shrimp for a bit of sport, very lively tank and they aren't killing each other (yet). All are those native trout I raise that grow too slow for commercial viability. Nice ornamentals though, very oscar like in behaviour and looks.

2 other species noticeably missing that used to live in my creek - goddamn building contractors bastards let slurry run into the stream 2 years ago. Only the fish that come in from the ocean have repopulated. Fuck i hate ignorant stupid fat cunts like that. HATE THEM!

Govt should force them to repopulate the stream not just pay a fine.

Rant ends. Weeds great!

 

[BakedBeans]

THSeek: I thought about getting compatible fish/plants too, and I guess I could do that by splitting up crops/fish and paring like with like. Hmmmm... something to think about.

My problem right now is I'm trying to learn about fish, but it's hard getting started. I've been to the various forums and the amount of information is either more geared to aquarium enthusiasts, or is for super-size commercial fishing.

I need to find more commercial/hobby aquaculture related stuff.

Perhaps it's time to hit Amazon.com. I should buy some growing books anyway.


Hey, on Blueberries, couldn't you stagger crops and adjust 'seasons' using complimentary indoor lighting? I wonder if the ability to produce year round crops would outweigh the extra cost associated with the lights.

 

[BakedBeans]

Oh, and yeah, Marketing and Business plans are way up there on the list.

I've just never done one. I need to get a book for that too.

 

[Guest]

There is a book called "How To really Write A Marketing Plan". It is GOLD!

You would need a cashflow forecast and accurate figures on power consumption off season market prices etc to determine the viability of off season berries.

Off season produce gets premium prices. Get friendly with a local greengrocer, I have one, very valuable for predicting market trends and holes as they are the folk who know what sells when. Rarities are a great idea too, but is there a local market.

Go to go to work. Have anice day all.