America

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Oh let the thread run.....Seems like quite a few members want to talk about Trump this and Trump that......Hillary/Obama this and that, democrat this and republican that,.....Far Left/Right/Left/Far Right....Communist this and Fascist that.....Socialist this and Progressive that....Black lives matter, White lives matter, Everyone's lives matter, Radical Nazi Extremists, and Radicalized Islamic Extremists (kinda the same thing)....Antifa Marxist/Leninist/Trotskyite snowflakery, and card carrying, jack-booted, goose-stepping, Sieg Heiling Heinrich Himmler fan club members....it's all part of the wonderful world of American politics.

....So long as this political talk doesn't leak out into the other forums to distract the membership from what they do best......I'm all for it.

 

[packerfan79]

Oh let the thread run.....Seems like quite a few members want to talk about Trump this and Trump that......Hillary/Obama this and that, democrat this and republican that,.....Far Left/Right/Left/Far Right....Communist this and Fascist that.....Socialist this and Progressive that....Black lives matter, White lives matter, Everyone's lives matter, Radical Nazi Extremists, and Radicalized Islamic Extremists (kinda the same thing)....Antifa Marxist/Leninist/Trotskyite snowflakery, and card carrying, jack-booted, goose-stepping, Sieg Heiling Heinrich Himmler fan club members....it's all part of the wonderful world of American politics.

....So long as this political talk doesn't leak out into the other forums to distract the membership from what they do best......I'm all for it.

A man who see's value in free speech. That's a breath of fresh air

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

A man who see's value in free speech. That's a breath of fresh air

Well.....I get fed up with trying to boss people about....sanctioning, banning and all that palava.

If members can conduct themselves respectfully and discuss sensitive topics seriously, without having to revert to petty-name-calling-insults that make others retaliate in kind.....then it makes my job much easier.

After all we are supposed to be a part of the most advanced human civilization ever created on the face of the planet....

....so can't we all just be civil towards each other?

 

[mean mr.mustard]

I love this place.

Thanks for the cool digs Gypsy!

:friends:

 

[Bumbatar]

For people living inside the U.S. this topic is driving them insane because we are watching our country descend into a corrupt third world country with a rigged sham democracy, for everyone else this thread is like watching "Japanese bug fights" on youtube.

 

[Hermanthegerman]

Here is one for stoner4life ;-)

and for Ira Hayes.

 

[Hermanthegerman]

 

[igrowone]

For people living inside the U.S. this topic is driving them insane because we are watching our country descend into a corrupt third world country with a rigged sham democracy, for everyone else this thread is like watching "Japanese bug fights" on youtube.

real democracy is what we got
not perfect, but real
trump was elected fairly, america has made some rough choices before
we'll move on in due time, just need to let the illness run its course

 

[Cannavore]

i wouldn't really call the electoral college fair though.

1 person 1 vote. states should be irrelevant in the process. whoever has the most votes should win. plain and simple. and elections should be publicly financed.

50% of Americans don't vote
the other 50% of Americans are hyper partisan loons playing the fake left/right game (democrats and republicans)

 

[igrowone]

i wouldn't really call the electoral college fair though.

1 person 1 vote. states should be irrelevant in the process. whoever has the most votes should win. plain and simple. and elections should be publicly financed.

50% of Americans don't vote
the other 50% of Americans are hyper partisan loons (democrats and republicans)

not that fair, no
but the rules haven't changed, trump had no special advantages
his message, such that it was, got him in
i don't think he's going to be sticking around that long
it's funny, i think he hates the job, but he won't let go

 

[packerfan79]

i wouldn't really call the electoral college fair though.

1 person 1 vote. states should be irrelevant in the process. whoever has the most votes should win. plain and simple. and elections should be publicly financed.

50% of Americans don't vote
the other 50% of Americans are hyper partisan loons playing the fake left/right game (democrats and republicans)

I would say the electoral college is as fair as a progressive tax scheme we have.

 

[armedoldhippy]

I would say the electoral college is as fair as a progressive tax scheme we have.

odd thing about the Electoral College. in most states, the electors are not bound to vote for the candidate which they were elected to support. as for taxes, didn't Trump just "fix" that for everyone he likes...?

 

[moose eater]

The elections in the US are not 'fair elections.' They are scripted to the extent that the person(s) who spends the most, in the majority of cases, wins.

The primary is a matter of bringing in enough cash to be heard, and meeting what ever requirements are set by the parties. We're sometimes talking many millions of dollars to run an effective federal level campaign.

Do you think the uber-expensive third-party attack ads run as a benefit/result of Citizens United are run without quid pro quo requirements or expectations?

By the time someone gives that much money, you can bet your arse there's a reason for the expenditures. And it's NOT altruism or pure and sane ideological quests.

Bernie filled amphitheaters and stadiums in ways not seen in a long time.. Polls showed him beating Trump, repeatedly. Even Trump has eluded to, if not outright stated the D's should have won that election. But the Ds rigged the primary against Bernie (See Donna Brazille, the fake/erroneous accounts of chair throwing in Nevada, Wasserman-Schultz BS allegations of misuse of the D voter data bases by Bernie's crew that took nearly 7 months to clear <but the bell had been rung>, WikiLeaks <which even the feds have begrudgingly admitted were vetted as real/legitimate docs> and more..

To sit and hear the Ds bitch about 'fair elections,' in a country where they colluded with media, twisted and connived, and bent the truth, in a country where we've screwed with elections in 46-47 other countries that we know of <Regime change and meddling anyone, from Ukraine to South America, to Central America, to Egypt and beyond>, where our covert ops from the State Dept stir up shit in other countries for our own economic and strategic military benefit, is more than a little bit rich. Like Al Capone complaining someone became violent or took something that wasn't theirs...

One of the marks of Nationalism in particular, but humanity in general, is a seemingly stark void where self-awareness of hypocrisy is concerned.

What we have is "the best government money can buy." And if you're not an insider, the system from both main parties' sides, as well as their Oligarchs, and others, will screw you so hard you'll want to buy stocks in KY Jelly. The bottom line and mandate is to not upset the boat for those who run government indirectly via lobbyists, who give to BOTH primary parties, and whose often successful expectations are "business as usual" please, no matter -who- wins..

They give you a limited menu to choose from, so you'll think you had a choice, then pat you on your head, and tell you "Thank you for fulfilling your civic obligation/duty. But what you were offered was a pre-approved list of the folks who had access to partisan and corporate cash, and posed little to no threat to the real power-brokers in this country.. Period. Plain and simple.
------------------------------------------------
Bumbatar, I gave you rep for your comment, but I'd add that the US has invaded more countries and engaged in more wars than any other country on the planet at this time. Foreigners watch what we do very closely, just as I watch some of those whose history and propensities near me have merited or gained my attention, even if I have no immediate control over their direction.

I suspect Betsy Ross and her cohorts would vomit if they saw what influence is suffered in our 'fair elections' today.

Now I've gotta' pack for a trip to the mountains, where the most offensive thing I encounter is overflow under the snow on the ice, a lynx stealing my toothpaste (real occurrence), the remnants of a wolf-pack killing of caribou or moose, or, despite the seclusion and desolation out there, the occasional headache caused by someone sitting on one of my favorite lake trout or burbot fishing spots... But they're big lakes out that way....;^>)

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Great post moose eater.....I couldn't agree with you more....

....and I wish that I could take a nice long stroll in the mountains right now too, it certainly sounds idyllic......just to get away for a good while...compose my thoughts in step with nature.

Enjoy that time in the wilderness man.......as I have enjoyed it, just thinking about it.

 

[St. Phatty]

Elections implies that the US has a Democracy.

It doesn't.

It goes through the motions of a Democracy, but the choices are always along the lines of choosing between Vanilla and Chocolate ice cream.

 

[igrowone]

Elections implies that the US has a Democracy.

It doesn't.

It goes through the motions of a Democracy, but the choices are always along the lines of choosing between Vanilla and Chocolate ice cream.

democracy has never provided complete freedom of choice
go back in history, democracies have never done that
now we do see a process heavily influenced by money, likely because there's more money than ever, there is obscene wealth
i say fair in the sense there aren't physical barriers to what a voter can do in the voting booth
so what's the next evolution in democracy? if there is one

 

[packerfan79]

Great post moose eater.....I couldn't agree with you more....

....and I wish that I could take a nice long stroll in the mountains right now too, it certainly sounds idyllic......just to get away for a good while...compose my thoughts in step with nature.

Enjoy that time in the wilderness man.......as I have enjoyed it, just thinking about it.

I could go for a strole through the forest

 

[Mick]

A man who see's value in free speech. That's a breath of fresh air

Hey, I'm wondering where you draw the line between free speech and hate speech, or if there is a line? Nothing to do with the conversations here btw, just curious.

 

[Mick]

I could go for a strole through the forest

I just got back an hour or so ago from walking dog up in the mountains and it's a beautiful experience.

 

[coldcanna]

Hey, I'm wondering where you draw the line between free speech and hate speech, or if there is a line? Nothing to do with the conversations here btw, just curious.

There is no line because that would mean a person of authority could arbitrarily draw lines, and that is how we get totalitarian censorship. The downfall and beauty of free speech is you have to put up with what the people you disagree with want to say.

Let me play devils advocate.

Trump might say we should deport illegal immigrants. Some people view that as economically sound and that following laws is important. Some people see it as un-humane and hateful of minorities. "hate speech".

Other folks might view calling police pigs, or country people "deplorables" or ignorant hicks as hate speech, while others view it as an accurate assessment.

If a leader was in power from either side and had the ability to silence the opinion he didn't share.... what kind of slippery slope would that bring us down?