Aliens, yay or nay?

[Hubbleman]

Cherubim tell me that the reason we dont see and interact with aliens on daily basis is that around our solar system is a shield protecting us from outside intrusion

 

[Hubbleman]

Also Who was it that said that the universe is like a big penis ejaculating life in all directions?

 

[DrFever]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEFqrPPFKOM

 

[bombadil.360]

Sure it does, if you say one thing created everything then the next question is who created the creator because it's not rational to say the creator created itself. Even though it's a mix up of Bible scripture the average Christian who believes in creation thinks there was a point where there was nothing and then came the word and the word was God and then from that point on God created everything. Aside from that the Bible casts God as the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end which does not fit with the notion of an eternal being that just always was. So to say God just always was is not an argument that many accept or agree with. In fact I bet most see it as just an easy way to avoid the debate rather then trying to reason thru it based on what's considered accepted knowledge of God.

Nor do I see how this is off topic since many feel there are biblical references to Aliens and I'm pretty sure even you yourself talked about ancient artistic images of god like beings that might be interpreted as aliens.

Think about it too, given where we came from, if we decided to just go crazy with genetic manipulation and we got as far as being able to create a new sentient life form optimized to live in an environment we terraform on another planet. We then install this new life form on this terraformed planet. We would likely also create some sort of deity mythology for them to form a religion around seeing as how having a clear origin and purpose for being and why things are the way they are is so important to us. So to suggest we might be the result of an alien experiment and the whole notion of God was just some story we were given or we came up with to give us a sense of being and purpose (which is what I suggested) Is perfectly in line with this topic.

the complete sentence regarding the 'alpha and omega' thing goes something like: beginning and end of all created things.

that which is created, is conditioned and finite.

on the other hand, that which we have named "the Creator" or "God" for lack of precise terms to describe whatever it is, is said to be itself 'uncreated', 'endless', 'beginningless', 'the unmoved mover' etc... etc... etc...

whether you look in the bible, or philosophy texts on the matter, or religious exegesis, whether Jewish, Christian or Muslim; even Buddhist (specifically Mahayana), Taoist, etc... all share in common these attributes given to this 'sourceless source'.

whether you believe there is such a thing or not is quite another matter, however.

but according to the 'points of reference' in regards said discussion, those being the main texts of the above mentioned traditions and even others (like Vedanta, et all), posit such.

like I said, the info is out there freely available for anyone wishing to look up how the subject is treated dialectically.

be good.

 

[bombadil.360]

as far as something from nothing, the terms are not terribly precise
it's more metaphor than science, for what is nothing?
is empty space nothing? no, i think many would agree that space is something
big bang theories are mostly just that, long on theory, short on data
but it's a hell of a topic to discuss
now with life, we know more, i.e. there is more data
the commonality of genetics is remarkable with some very diverse life forms
but the recent kicker are some of the artificial 'lifes' that have been created
i believe a version of the polio virus was made from scratch so to speak
and there has been an artificial bacterium
a bacteria was gutted of it insides, just preserving the cell wall? something like that
and new genetics were inserted, and life was created, almost, not completely, but a huge step

the processes of genetic engineering that we know of completely rely on already found genetic materials, that is, found by us through scientific observation, and manipulated to the extent of our abilities. per-existing data, lets say.

if this constitutes some sort of primordial 'creation', the standard has been set quite low to say the least.

peace

 

[mrcreosote]

Also Who was it that said that the universe is like a big penis ejaculating life in all directions?

Dunno,

but I do know it wasn't me who posited 'The Splooge Theory'.

 

[HempKat]

the complete sentence regarding the 'alpha and omega' thing goes something like: beginning and end of all created things.

that which is created, is conditioned and finite.

on the other hand, that which we have named "the Creator" or "God" for lack of precise terms to describe whatever it is, is said to be itself 'uncreated', 'endless', 'beginningless', 'the unmoved mover' etc... etc... etc...

whether you look in the bible, or philosophy texts on the matter, or religious exegesis, whether Jewish, Christian or Muslim; even Buddhist (specifically Mahayana), Taoist, etc... all share in common these attributes given to this 'sourceless source'.

whether you believe there is such a thing or not is quite another matter, however.

but according to the 'points of reference' in regards said discussion, those being the main texts of the above mentioned traditions and even others (like Vedanta, et all), posit such.

like I said, the info is out there freely available for anyone wishing to look up how the subject is treated dialectically.

be good.

No the complete sentence goes "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." At least in the King James version of the Bible, Revelation 22:13. You can look it up, the information is freely out there.

 

[SooperSmurph]

Problem is, Revelations is a metaphorical text written by a madman in isolation on an island, it was tacked onto the end of an otherwise serviceable spiritual anthology (The Bible) by people who wanted to use its scenes of horrific violence and evil to frighten people into paying larger tithes.

If they had tacked on some Gnostic writings instead, the crusades would have been a very different endeavor.

Point being, focusing on that insanity is like a religious person lumping scientists in with foil hat wearers.

 

[igrowone]

SooperSmurph raised the point that creating life from inert matter is still to be shown
that is 'mostly' true, depends on whether you call virus living, it's a fine point
but a virus(maybe more than 1) has been made synthetically, i would call that life, though very limited
bombadil.360 mentioned genetics engineering, and that genetic engineering isn't really creating life, i do agree with that
i was talking about the synthetic bacteria project, which is quite a bit different
a certain bacteria, one that doesn't have a cell wall, had its genetic information completely removed
all new information was built from scratch, in essence a synthetic nucleus
which is beyond typical genetic engineering
it is open to opinion what this means, i believe further progress will continue with cells becoming more and more artificial

 

[SooperSmurph]

A virus is not life.

Any contiguous living system is called an organism. Organisms undergo metabolism, maintain homeostasis, possess a capacity to grow, respond to stimuli, reproduce and, through natural selection, adapt to their environment in successive generations...
...
Viruses are most often considered replicators rather than forms of life. They have been described as "organisms at the edge of life,"[43] since they possess genes, evolve by natural selection,[44][45] and replicate by creating multiple copies of themselves through self-assembly. However, viruses do not metabolize and they require a host cell to make new products.

And what you're speaking of with the bacteria is still taking an existing system, stripping it down, and filling it in with something else that already existed as well, nothing "new" was created.

 

[bombadil.360]

No the complete sentence goes "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." At least in the King James version of the Bible, Revelation 22:13. You can look it up, the information is freely out there.

well, I was thinking more of Isaiah than Revelations.

but even in Isaiah the complete phrase does not go as I said it did, was thinking in exegetical materials; however, the whole point with the 'first and the last' is in regards the concept of the Creator being outside of time, or transcendent.

at least dialectically, and like it was said, whether you believe it or not is another matter.

but to end, arguing that since the Creator is given the title 'alpha and omega' means that he must have been created, doesn't fly. not dialectically.

peace

 

[BushyOldGrower]

Cannabis and shrooms were brought here by aliens.

One of the most amazing things are our genetics. We have hundreds of species of plants and animals bred for thousands of years. Some have questioned where so many finely developed herbs came from. Did we just pick them from nature or did someone else work on some of our genetics.

Scientology has the coolest origin of our species theory but it's no wilder than other theories. I am not a member but the idea that some alien or god created us isn't exclusive to scientologists.

In the bible Adam and eve were different from the other people on the planet because god did some changes. Are scientologists any crazier than Mormons or Catholics?

I see no need for aliens or false gods but I do believe in a sort of God. More like the one Hubbleman described. This life force is like a penis shooting life out everywhere and then it has no responsibility just like a lotta dads.

 

[HempKat]

Problem is, Revelations is a metaphorical text written by a madman in isolation on an island, it was tacked onto the end of an otherwise serviceable spiritual anthology (The Bible) by people who wanted to use its scenes of horrific violence and evil to frighten people into paying larger tithes.

If they had tacked on some Gnostic writings instead, the crusades would have been a very different endeavor.

Point being, focusing on that insanity is like a religious person lumping scientists in with foil hat wearers.

The only people here focusing on revelations seems to be you. I'm just providing supporting evidence as to why so many Christians believe God has a very specific beginning and end.

 

[HempKat]

well, I was thinking more of Isaiah than Revelations.

but even in Isaiah the complete phrase does not go as I said it did, was thinking in exegetical materials; however, the whole point with the 'first and the last' is in regards the concept of the Creator being outside of time, or transcendent.

at least dialectically, and like it was said, whether you believe it or not is another matter.

but to end, arguing that since the Creator is given the title 'alpha and omega' means that he must have been created, doesn't fly. not dialectically.

peace

Yeah but I never said it must mean that I merely said to say one being created everything begs the question of who created the creator because most people who believe in God (Christian God)believe there was a point before God when there was nothingness.

I'm not saying they are correct or incorrect in thinking that. If you study it the Bible is full of things that appear to be false based on our understanding of things today. Which supports the statement I made that man has a history of mythologizing the unknown as being examples of God's influence or work.

Which all goes back to my original point that the whole God Story as told by the Bible could be a mythology to explain something unknown to man but caused by aliens.

 

[SooperSmurph]

Yeah but I never said it must mean that I merely said to say one being created everything begs the question of who created the creator because most people who believe in God (Christian God)believe there was a point before God when there was nothingness.

I'm not saying they are correct or incorrect in thinking that. If you study it the Bible is full of things that appear to be false based on our understanding of things today.

The average person in this country also thinks of Snooki as someone they need to pay attention to, you can't really use their monotone interpretations as the framework for a discussion with spiritual aspects.

When talking about higher concepts, taking a vote is the last thing i'd want to do to make a determination. Maybe you trust the room that much but the crowd looks rough out there to me.

Creator concepts don't really fit the framework of living beings as we think of them even in the most remote sense, when you really think about what it takes to give birth to a reality you're left with concepts that are far beyond us, but it's helped me over the years to stop thinking of spirituality as something that's limited by what i'm comfortable with. What is the nature of infinity? By nature, it is infinite, therefore intelligence must be a part of that infinity, but does it take the form of mere fleeting convergences of concepts in a swirling chaos or is there Will drifting through the ether and shaping its energies?

The average scripture monkey looks at the above and says "huh?" because it doesn't fit the framework of what they're comfortable with, clouds and bearded men and whatnot, combining science and spirituality just isn't possible in the minds of the classically religious, but it's something that is needed if we're to attain progress with balance.

 

[HempKat]

The average person in this country also thinks of Snooki as someone they need to pay attention to, you can't really use their monotone interpretations as the framework for a discussion with spiritual aspects.

When talking about higher concepts, taking a vote is the last thing i'd want to do to make a determination. Maybe you trust the room that much but the crowd looks rough out there to me.

Creator concepts don't really fit the framework of living beings as we think of them even in the most remote sense, when you really think about what it takes to give birth to a reality you're left with concepts that are far beyond us, but it's helped me over the years to stop thinking of spirituality as something that's limited by what i'm comfortable with. What is the nature of infinity? By nature, it is infinite, therefore intelligence must be a part of that infinity, but does it take the form of mere fleeting convergences of concepts in a swirling chaos or is there Will drifting through the ether and shaping its energies?

The average scripture monkey looks at the above and says "huh?" because it doesn't fit the framework of what they're comfortable with, clouds and bearded men and whatnot, combining science and spirituality just isn't possible in the minds of the classically religious, but it's something that is needed if we're to attain progress with balance.

Yes but all of that just goes to support what I'm suggesting. If basically we are the simple minded people you describe that think what Snooki says and does is important then it is hardly surprising we would create a god mythology to explain an alien encounter/contact. Accepting there are other more advanced races of beings elsewhere in the universe, that were responsible for our creation would be too difficult for us to grasp. Especially if said contact happened back when we were just first emerging as a species. Which is all I've been suggesting.

 

[SooperSmurph]

But, in accepting both science and spirituality, we're confronted again with probability and Mr. Fermi, visceral concepts like extraterrestrial life require the objective confirmation that spiritual reassurances do not, supposing that Aliens created us leaves us with only that supposition, and while this idea has been explored, we still haven't found that lost outpost, hidden message in our genetics, fossilized alien fatality, etc, leaving the more ephemeral origin concepts on even footing with the intellectual.

 

[HempKat]

But, in accepting both science and spirituality, we're confronted again with probability and Mr. Fermi, visceral concepts like extraterrestrial life require the objective confirmation that spiritual reassurances do not, supposing that Aliens created us leaves us with only that supposition, and while this idea has been explored, we still haven't found that lost outpost, hidden message in our genetics, fossilized alien fatality, etc, leaving the more ephemeral origin concepts on even footing with the intellectual.

Alien Life requires no more proof then God does. As demonstrated by the poll very few people doubt the existence of alien (to us) life forms elsewhere in the Universe based on the notion with so many stars and planets out there that might have spawned life, it's mathematically improbable that we are the only planet with life in the Universe. Yet there is no proof of this just a gut feeling based on the science of math.

 

[SooperSmurph]

Actually, by nature, spirituality is subjective, rather than objective, the existence of an alien race is a matter that can easily be measured by tangible means, whereas the only yardstick we have upon which to measure spiritual concepts are their effects upon people.

 

[bombadil.360]

Actually, by nature, spirituality is subjective, rather than objective, the existence of an alien race is a matter that can easily be measured by tangible means, whereas the only yardstick we have upon which to measure spiritual concepts are their effects upon people.

I could argue that spirituality (don't like the term) can be proven and tested through individual gnosis.

a good example would be the dimension of knowing turned on by various psychedelics, including cannabis; which cannot be passed unto another.

peace