Advice, tips or tricks for building and running a sealed room needed.

[Smokin Joe]

It's quite a bit more but you could look into a 2 stage unit and zone controls. Be a little tough to try and regulate 2 different comfort temps with out zoning. I think this is mainly flower rooms.
I would also add the best high merv hepa / electronic filter I could in case you decide to use 1 room for breeding

 

[Treetroit City]

I'm with Galahad, 3 tons is a tad too big and may result in short cycling. But yeah, leaves room for more lights.
Are you going to have a thermostat in each room (veg & flower)?

I think G was talking about the 4 ton being a bit too big. You think a 3 ton will be too big?

I was not planning on having two thermostats although I can't say that I've figured it all out yet either lol.

This is the kind of stuff I need folks with experience to help point me in the right direction.

Maybe I could co-mingle the air from both rooms and just have one tstat?

It's quite a bit more but you could look into a 2 stage unit and zone controls. Be a little tough to try and regulate 2 different comfort temps with out zoning. I think this is mainly flower rooms.
I would also add the best high merv hepa / electronic filter I could in case you decide to use 1 room for breeding

Now you're just getting over my head. Suppose I'll wait and see what hvac comes up with.

 

[guyyug]

lung room

lung room

Having a small lung room would give you some flexibility. Makes flips easier to control as well as veg areas. That way one main thermostat in lung room, then if you add other thermostats they could activate fans blowing into the rooms from lung. Air scrubber could go in there too...

 

[Puscifer]

Sorry, meant to say the 4 ton

 

[Treetroit City]

Having a small lung room would give you some flexibility. Makes flips easier to control as well as veg areas. That way one main thermostat in lung room, then if you add other thermostats they could activate fans blowing into the rooms from lung. Air scrubber could go in there too...

Still trying to wrap my head around a lung room. Could I use the veg room as the lung room?

Sorry, meant to say the 4 ton

No problem man lol. That is good to hear though.

I'm thinking 3 ton myself. I think I could even cool 6K with a 3 ton.

 

[Smokin Joe]

3rd I wasnt really suggesting you zone your system. Wouldn't be economical for you. You would spend 7 or 8 grand on that type set up. If you are just gonna have 2 flower rooms, are you planning on a flip flop? If a flip flop a lung room may be more what you need. A lung room is just a storage space for your air. If you are gonna run both rooms at the same time then 1 tstat will do ya just fine. Your guy can handle things I'm sure. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

 

[mpd]

Gonna need insulation, a vapor barrier and sealing of all corners and wall penetrations. You should think about this as a 3-phase power set-up to maximize your cost-efficiencies. I am loving this project. K++

 

[Treetroit City]

Gonna need insulation, a vapor barrier and sealing of all corners and wall penetrations. You should think about this as a 3-phase power set-up to maximize your cost-efficiencies. I am loving this project. K++

Thanks, The insulation and vapor barrier are on page 1. Still working on the electric.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Why 3 phase?

 

[Puscifer]

Third, it's been my experience that the better insulated the room the less BTU's it takes to cool (and you know how hot it gets where I'm from) Thats obvious but very often over looked. The rigid foam and fiberglass insulation in your build tells me you know whats up. So I firmly believe that you could get away with 3 tons and 6k.
Circulating the air between rooms is one way, or zones as Galahad mentioned is another.
Circulation is the cheapest, zoning is the more precise (and unfortunately expensive.)
I ended up using 2 mini splits, one for the veg room one for the flower room.
Really looking forward to seeing what kind of "kind" you fill that flower room with
Galahad, permission to bugaboo you through PM's on a few things HVAC related

 

[PuReKnOwLeDgE]

Damn glad I seen this. Reminds me of a simliar thread I once seen. Everyone is building polebarns it seems, awesome! I don't have time to read the whole thread right now but I will be back. I made it through some so far. If there is any thing I can help with man let me know. Good shit!

Edit: A 3.0 ton will cool 5 lights no problem. You need 4000btu per light if non aircooled and it doesn't hurt to have some extra BTUS. I use my flower room as a lung room, the AC pushes 2000cfm when it is on. A 14" max fan pushes 1700cfm back into my flower/lung room 24/7. When the AC goes off, the positive pressure from the max fan building in the flower room escapes via the AC intake and vents, recirculating my air 24/7 at a nice rate. Also keeping the temps stable throughout all my space. Also, Excel AC systems are pricey but they are awesome. They work down to -35F, have a great warranty and customer service has been excellent. They have alot of cool addons as well. The stealth is awesome because the compressor can be inside and not be noisey to neighbors or others. My HVAC tech has no problem working on it what so ever. My 5.0 ton is cooling 15 lights plus a co2 burner, 3 t5's, and 3 dehumidifiers flawlessly.

 

[Treetroit City]

3rd I wasnt really suggesting you zone your system. Wouldn't be economical for you. You would spend 7 or 8 grand on that type set up. If you are just gonna have 2 flower rooms, are you planning on a flip flop? If a flip flop a lung room may be more what you need. A lung room is just a storage space for your air. If you are gonna run both rooms at the same time then 1 tstat will do ya just fine. Your guy can handle things I'm sure. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

Just one flower room. When I was talking about two rooms I meant my flower room and my veg room.

Third, it's been my experience that the better insulated the room the less BTU's it takes to cool (and you know how hot it gets where I'm from) Thats obvious but very often over looked. The rigid foam and fiberglass insulation in your build tells me you know whats up. So I firmly believe that you could get away with 3 tons and 6k.
Circulating the air between rooms is one way, or zones as Galahad mentioned is another.
Circulation is the cheapest, zoning is the more precise (and unfortunately expensive.)
I ended up using 2 mini splits, one for the veg room one for the flower room.
Really looking forward to seeing what kind of "kind" you fill that flower room with
Galahad, permission to bugaboo you through PM's on a few things HVAC related

I think I'll try to circulate the air somehow. Though not ideal the goal is to get set up and rolling and then fine tune as I go.

As far as what kind of kind will be gettin flowered you'll just have to wait and see.

Damn glad I seen this. Reminds me of a simliar thread I once seen. Everyone is building polebarns it seems, awesome! I don't have time to read the whole thread right now but I will be back. I made it through some so far. If there is any thing I can help with man let me know. Good shit!

Edit: A 3.0 ton will cool 5 lights no problem. You need 4000btu per light if non aircooled and it doesn't hurt to have some extra BTUS. I use my flower room as a lung room, the AC pushes 2000cfm when it is on. A 14" max fan pushes 1700cfm back into my flower/lung room 24/7. When the AC goes off, the positive pressure from the max fan building in the flower room escapes via the AC intake and vents, recirculating my air 24/7 at a nice rate. Also keeping the temps stable throughout all my space. Also, Excel AC systems are pricey but they are awesome. They work down to -35F, have a great warranty and customer service has been excellent. They have alot of cool addons as well. The stealth is awesome because the compressor can be inside and not be noisey to neighbors or others. My HVAC tech has no problem working on it what so ever. My 5.0 ton is cooling 15 lights plus a co2 burner, 3 t5's, and 3 dehumidifiers flawlessly.

Well shit man, it's about time you stumbled in here. Better late than never, now get up to the podium and let class begin lol.

Yeah, I've spent a few hours(days?) going thru your build thread.

I'm convinced that 3 ton is max what I'm looking for. I went to check out Excel's site and found their unit selector. For my dimensions, 12x13x8 with 4-6K in lighting with a co2 burner and summertime temps of 85-100, to keep it at 80 degrees, their site is recommending a 2 ton.

Obviously if all goes well I will stuff 6K in there.

If you get a minute, where would you place a/c vents and circulation fan/fans to run this set up? Any help would be mucho appreciated.

Edit: Went back through your thread PK, How are you light proofing the 14" Max connection?

 

[jorgecervantes1]

did you say you will start with 4000 watts worth of lights? no way your room will be warm enough unless you are installing day time heater(unless your co2 is always at 1000-1500 depending on your preference). night time deff need some sort of heating unit to keep it at 68F. humidity will deff be your biggest problem here. bring the humidity down to 40% in the later stages if your grow will be your biggest obstacle. you will need 3-4 72 pint dehumids at min.

I think you said you will have 1000 w? why use 1000w when you can use two 600? IMO i would go with cheaper magnetic ballast as everything in a grow room will need to be replaced indue time! i bought sunlights new hardcore ballast for $75!!!!! i bought 10 for $750 idc what anyone has to say but that was a waaaayyyy better deal then lets say genisus 1000w which is like $3-400 each!!! you must run a tight ship when you do it big or else you will spend tens of thousands with a unit cost of $999 per gram at which you will kick your self!!! trust me i been there!

you must go ductless ac unit. as any other source will pull out your co2 but it seems you obviously know this!!!

PS i saw meijers brand primer. dont skimp on primer get primer 123 it is very important to have that wood sealed or else mold can grow behind the paint and you would never know till its wayyy to late! also what about vents for roof? in between your room ceiling and the roof there will be substantial humid! you will need 2 attic vents that are at least 1500cfm. I keep a close eye on my temp/humid outside of my room cause if its too humid for too long black mold will very easily grow on the walls/ceiling also it will deteriorate very fast if the humidity is high!!

I hope you got all that as i def was all ove the place.


i got a 30x40 room which seems simular to yours and its hard to keep it warm at nighttime when it gets cold outside.



with all the responses on this thread i got a bit confused

 

[Smokin Joe]

did you say you will start with 4000 watts worth of lights? no way your room will be warm enough unless you are installing day time heater(unless your co2 is always at 1000-1500 depending on your preference). night time deff need some sort of heating unit to keep it at 68F. humidity will deff be your biggest problem here. bring the humidity down to 40% in the later stages if your grow will be your biggest obstacle. you will need 3-4 72 pint dehumids at min.

I think you said you will have 1000 w? why use 1000w when you can use two 600? IMO i would go with cheaper magnetic ballast as everything in a grow room will need to be replaced indue time! i bought sunlights new hardcore ballast for $75!!!!! i bought 10 for $750 idc what anyone has to say but that was a waaaayyyy better deal then lets say genisus 1000w which is like $3-400 each!!! you must run a tight ship when you do it big or else you will spend tens of thousands with a unit cost of $999 per gram at which you will kick your self!!! trust me i been there!

you must go ductless ac unit. as any other source will pull out your co2 but it seems you obviously know this!!!

PS i saw meijers brand primer. dont skimp on primer get primer 123 it is very important to have that wood sealed or else mold can grow behind the paint and you would never know till its wayyy to late! also what about vents for roof? in between your room ceiling and the roof there will be substantial humid! you will need 2 attic vents that are at least 1500cfm. I keep a close eye on my temp/humid outside of my room cause if its too humid for too long black mold will very easily grow on the walls/ceiling also it will deteriorate very fast if the humidity is high!!

I hope you got all that as i def was all ove the place.


i got a 30x40 room which seems simular to yours and its hard to keep it warm at nighttime when it gets cold outside.



with all the responses on this thread i got a bit confused

Well I;m not third but do know a thing or 2 about which you speak. 1. If he uses heat pumps it is cheap enough to use programmable t-stat that can be set how ever he needs it. 2 co2 will not be removed from the air in the room with a conventional unit (they can be made air tight so no loss of co2. just spread it better) 3 This is a building inside a pole barn so no attic. Not arguing with ya just pointing some things out you may be confused about.

 

[Treetroit City]

did you say you will start with 4000 watts worth of lights? no way your room will be warm enough unless you are installing day time heater(unless your co2 is always at 1000-1500 depending on your preference). night time deff need some sort of heating unit to keep it at 68F. humidity will deff be your biggest problem here. bring the humidity down to 40% in the later stages if your grow will be your biggest obstacle. you will need 3-4 72 pint dehumids at min.

I think you said you will have 1000 w? why use 1000w when you can use two 600? IMO i would go with cheaper magnetic ballast as everything in a grow room will need to be replaced indue time! i bought sunlights new hardcore ballast for $75!!!!! i bought 10 for $750 idc what anyone has to say but that was a waaaayyyy better deal then lets say genisus 1000w which is like $3-400 each!!! you must run a tight ship when you do it big or else you will spend tens of thousands with a unit cost of $999 per gram at which you will kick your self!!! trust me i been there!

you must go ductless ac unit. as any other source will pull out your co2 but it seems you obviously know this!!!

PS i saw meijers brand primer. dont skimp on primer get primer 123 it is very important to have that wood sealed or else mold can grow behind the paint and you would never know till its wayyy to late! also what about vents for roof? in between your room ceiling and the roof there will be substantial humid! you will need 2 attic vents that are at least 1500cfm. I keep a close eye on my temp/humid outside of my room cause if its too humid for too long black mold will very easily grow on the walls/ceiling also it will deteriorate very fast if the humidity is high!!

I hope you got all that as i def was all ove the place.


i got a 30x40 room which seems simular to yours and its hard to keep it warm at nighttime when it gets cold outside.



with all the responses on this thread i got a bit confused

Well I realize at this point you have been banned(probably for the collective good) but let me answer a few questions in case you're reading this.

You say my room will need daytime heat. Really with 4-6K in light you think I'll need additional heat. Huh.

Unless I'm running co2 levels at 1000-1500 huh? What does my tank and regulator have to do with temp?

3-4 dehumidifiers in a 12x13 room? Are you fucking serious?

Why use 1000 watters? Cause I like big buds and I can not lie!

I've given you enough of my time. If you get back on a new handle please stay out of my thread!

P.S. Thank you to the mod that cleaned up this assholes skidmark on my thread.

 

[PuReKnOwLeDgE]

The 14" max fan is high in the veg room and the lights never get that high. The ducting is kind of long, and I use the negative pressure plus a little tape to hold a 20x20 1500 allergen furnace filter to the end of it. No light leaks to speak of from it, if you look down the ducting you can see the light a bit. Having the ducting way up in the air helps. If it leaked or caused a problem I would put a bend in it and filters on both sides.

I wouldn't go as low as 2.0 but 2.5-3.0 will be great and leave you room. The systems work like a dream you won't regret it.


I would put the ac unit in the top center of the veg room. I would have two intakes w/filters sucking in from the bottom plenum. One filter would actually go through the flower room wall and be the flower room intake. This will save you some space in flower so you can pack it with greenery. The other intake would suck in from the veg room. I would have a top plenum going into the flower room with alot more out ducts, to ensure the majority of the ac is being direceted to flower. Another side of the top plenum would supply the veg.

A fan in the flower room on a speed control blowing into the veg to keep everything balanced, you would most likely have to turn it down a bit and dial that in as well so you don't over pressure either room. I use my panda poly as my pressure meter. If you are using a hvac tech he/she should be able to calculate how many duct holes for each room as far as fresh ac. Disperse the fresh air as evely as possible and further away from the intake the better. Hope it makes sense. Basically use your veg for a lung room if space in flower is an issue. If you get an excel you will be cheesin, enviroment just dialed to a T. Good insulation and a good seal and the 100F days won't matter anymore. I was cooling 15K when it was -15 or more outside this winter in what would be considered a VERY windy spot. Last summer the temps never touched me and it was record hot. The weather controlling your success will ebe a thing of the past except for power outages. Generator is in my near future.

 

[Treetroit City]

Thanks for that PK. I must admit that the sticker price for the excel air systems was a little shocking.

Not as shocking as my quote from the HVAC guy. $5600 for a 3 ton installed.

I see I can get the excel for 2.5 ton for $4000, or I could get a mini-split for about $2000 plus vacuum pumps and what not to do the install myself.

Guess I got some thinking to do...

On the good end of thing, framing is done and doors have been hung. Going to spray with some mold/mildew resistant primer next and decide between Reflectix or Orca film for the walls.

 

[Puscifer]

I've got Reflectix on walls right now, and while it reflects as well as giving me a tad of insulation, Orca film is night/day diff in brightness.
I'm rebuilding in a month and Orca is whats going on my walls.

 

[Treetroit City]

Good to hear. The orca is actually about the price so I'm leaning that way.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Holy shit!!!!!!!!!!! He must have 200% mark up or else he thinks his labor is worth 225 an hour. I could do this set up for 3500 and still put 1500 in my pocket and do the compleat set up in about 6 hours with no help. With a good helper would maybe take 4 hrs. I hope you don't call this guy a friend. More like a bandit. The going rate for a new construction home (turn key) is 2200 per ton around here and you can find it for 1500 a ton. That is for an entire house. You only need about 60 feet of duct work total, a 25', 3/4 and 3/8 line set. 20 feet of 3/4 pvc. Tell ya what, you buy the stuff and pay my expenses and I'll do it for ya just because. J/K I know this is against tou. Dose this guy work for someone else or his self?