Advancing Eco Agriculture, Product Science

[HazyBulldog]

Called today to ask for some Rebound Cobolt, as I can't find it anywhere else. I asked the sales guy if this product was volatile.......He said, volatile, this is fertilizer? Then kind of admitted some problems to the west coast........ Then blamed it on the mountains during transit.........Those pesky mountains........


I think I will pass.......... Make my own with fulvics and sulfates.........

Really though, why are you guys still buying from them? All Colorado people? Don't have to travel over as many mountains?...........

 

[Space Case]

Called today to ask for some Rebound Cobolt, as I can't find it anywhere else. I asked the sales guy if this product was volatile.......He said, volatile, this is fertilizer? Then kind of admitted some problems to the west coast........ Then blamed it on the mountains during transit.........Those pesky mountains........


I think I will pass.......... Make my own with fulvics and sulfates.........

Really though, why are you guys still buying from them? All Colorado people? Don't have to travel over as many mountains?...........

This is what I do....I doubt you'll need more than that!

https://www.amazon.com/HiMedia-GRM341-100G-Cobalt-Sulphate-Heptahydrate/dp/B00DYO4YN8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1491950496&sr=8-2&keywords=cobalt+sulfate

grab some Nickel Sulfate while you are at it!

 

[Lightweight]

Hey guys, howzit? I know this isn't the cannabis infirmary, but most if not all of the growers I trust the most participate in this thread or Slownickel's thread and I was wondering if anybody could tell me what these leaf symptoms are? The plants are in ground in normal mineral soil balanced to Astera's recs besides Ca and Mg which I shot for 70% and 10% respectively. I'm guessing this isn't a soil problem. I've been doing light doses of foliar feeding several days a week. For example, today I sprayed per gallon 1 ml of Biomin Calcium, 0.5 ml humic/fulvic acid, 1.25 ml MaxiCrop liquid kelp, 1/12 of a teaspoon of Ferti-Nitro and I think about 6.5 ml. potassium silicate with my weekly neem and Dr. Bronner's spray. Yesterday I sprayed per gallon 1.25 ml SeaCrop, 5 ml PhotoMag, 1.15 ml Pepzyme with about a 1/16th teaspoon of Micro 5000, 0.5 ml humic/fulvic acid and Coco Wet as an emulsifier. And I've been mixing up other stuff too. Basically foliar feeding 1/6th of the recommendations of various things and foliar feeding 6 days a week. I've been alternating Micro 5000 and PZ 1000 and basically using 1/4 teaspoon (total combined) of them for the week with 1.15 ml of Pepzyme each day I use them. And spraying Biomin Calcium or something with calcium in it each day, e.g., I don't mix Biomin Ca with SeaCrop because SeaCrop already has calcium in it. And I top dressed my soil with rabbit manure and alfalfa hay and I water once a week as of right now.

Anyway, I'm going to assume I need to cut back on the spraying, but maybe my plants have a deficiency. I had a phosphorous deficiency and corrected it through foliar feeding and the plants are starting to pick up some steam now.

Here's some pics:




Here's a top view of the plant. You can see besides the light patches the leaf tips are curling up on the affected leaves


Here's a whole plant pic


This is affecting about half my plants in this greenhouse. My other greenhouse is flower and for the most part those plants are looking good. Thanks for any help guys I'll post a couple more pics in the next post since I went past the pic limit.

 

[Lightweight]

Another affected leaf, but earlier stage I'd guess


Crappy pic of a different plant, but you can see the affected leaves near the center of the pic and the up-curled leaf tips

 

[reppin2c]

Looks like leaf burn. I have that sometimes when I use ful power or whatever

 

[Lightweight]

Looks like leaf burn. I have that sometimes when I use ful power or whatever

Thanks a lot r2c! I appreciate your input

 

[jidoka]

Got a soil test? What is temp/humidity? What lights were they under when they went to the gh?

 

[Lightweight]

Got a soil test? What is temp/humidity? What lights were they under when they went to the gh?

Thanks for stopping by Jidoka

I don't have a soil test since I amended the soil. I amended it with prilled CaCO3, CalPhos and Diatomaceous Earth a couple months back to let it start doing its thang and then just amended everything else a few weeks ago. And I put the plants in the ground a couple weeks ago or so.

Here was the soil test from a few months back. It's the test titled "Field":


I know it's not the best starting point for soil, but it's next to my other greenhouse and it was the best place to put it. I'm not worried about it. I can improve it as I go I'm sure. The soil test titled "Greenhse" on that page is the same soil, but it's been worked some.

As far as temps and humidity yesterday, I don't have the exact numbers inside the GH. Outside the high was 84 and the low was 69 and the humidity was probably 85-90% I'd guess. The humidity is 91% right now, just FYI. I have the Luminance greenhouse film which helps block IR light and keep it from turning into a sauna. That film has 55% light diffusion and I think 87% light transmission. It's generally pretty comfortable in there to me unless there's no wind, but then it's not that comfortable outside in the sun either. Also I keep the side vents rolled up and the roof vent rolled up. And we generally have some decent wind blowing during the day and I have horizontal air flow fans blowing 24/7. I need to get some batteries for one of my thermometer/hygrometers, but I'll put one in there once I do.

And these plants were mostly under T5HO's with some side lighting under a Spectrum King 450 watt LED. They might have got a little time directly under the LED light, which has some good intensity, before going in the GH. I don't remember. On a side note, my friend let me borrow the SK LED light perpetually. It works and I like it, but I wouldn't pay that much for a light. There's better cheaper versions of LED for less money IMO.

What's your thoughts behind your questions Jidoka?

 

[maxmurder]

the 5th pic down looks like some kinda residue like a snail would leave,

not saying it looks like snails but maybe some other kinda critter?

 

[MrBungle]

Leaf Hoppers

 

[jidoka]

What, exactly, did you put in it? If it is right in the ground how big is the gh and how many plants?

The glaring problem I see is Cec. None of the carbonate is gonna be available, it is just going to create a calcareous soil

Slow Nickel is your best bet right now. Some kind of biotic fertilizer and gypsum is what you need

 

[Lightweight]

Leaf Hoppers

Thanks for your input MrBungle. I haven't seen any leaf hoppers, but I do have some small variety of grass hopper that's in the GH. They generally just eat the leaves a little, but I'll keep an eye out to see if they're the culprits.

 

[Lightweight]

the 5th pic down looks like some kinda residue like a snail would leave,

not saying it looks like snails but maybe some other kinda critter?

After reading your post, I went out and took a closer look at that residue and I think reppin2C might have hit the nail on the head. The residue kind of looks like some of the humic/fulvic acid that maybe didn't dissolve in the water all the way. Thanks for pointing out that it looks like a residue because it made me take a closer look at it. I'm leaning toward it being some burn or something from the hum/fulvic acid.

Besides slugs and snails, the only other bug we have here that leaves a residue that I can think of off of the top of my head is one that is called a spit bug. I don't know if that's a common name or not. It leaves a clear loogie looking residue so it's easy to tell if it's been around, but I'll be keeping my eye out for critters just in case

 

[Lightweight]

What, exactly, did you put in it? If it is right in the ground how big is the gh and how many plants?

The glaring problem I see is Cec. None of the carbonate is gonna be available, it is just going to create a calcareous soil

Slow Nickel is your best bet right now. Some kind of biotic fertilizer and gypsum is what you need

The plants are direct in ground and this is the first run in this GH. It's 800 sq. ft. and it's a sawtooth style greenhouse that's about 13 ft. tall to the top of the roof vent. Right now there's 14 plants in the ground, but there will be 21 total in 3 rows of 7 so they each get about 5.7ft x 6.67ft.

I amended the soil with:
71 lbs Lilly Miller Super Sweet Lime
10 lbs Epsom Salts
I think I did about 50-55 lbs of CalPhos
0.05 lbs Borax
0.47 lbs Manganese Sulfate
0.6 lbs Copper Sulfate
1 lb Zinc Sulfate
about 80 lbs of basalt rock dust
about 24 cu. ft. of horse manure
and 7.25 lbs Diatomaceous Earth

Also I weed whacked the grasses that were growing there a couple times and let them dry out and tilled it all in with the amendments. And I know the CalPhos is a higher number than would show up on paper, but I don't think CalPhos breaks down fast enough the first year so I added about 50% more CalPhos, I believe, to what numbers I was shooting for.

So I must have missed a memo somewhere. I thought I was supposed to use lime if the pH is low. Or is CaCO3 the wrong kind of lime to use? I can top dress with gypsum too though.

The low CEC is why I decided to top dress with the rabbit manure and alfalfa hay. I'm guessing the CEC will bump up with a rise in pH and additional organic matter. We will see I guess. Thanks for the help Jidoka

 

[MrBungle]

Leaf Hoppers are tricky lil buggers.. They will actively hide from you.. Almost have to catch em moving out of the corner of your eye... Good Luck

 

[reppin2c]

LW- Even with a low CEC less then 42 Sqft per plant isnt much. Are you depping them?

When you over plant you cut your own throat

 

[maxmurder]

I'll be keeping my eye out for critters just in case

shouldn't have to look too hard, I imagine a critter that's been munchin on those foliars will be some big ass yoked mofo scaring pitbulls away!

 

[Lightweight]

@MrBungle, thanks for the knowledge and the well-wishes.

@reppin2c, I'm actually doing kind of a reverse dep, ha ha. In Hawaii we don't have the light hours to keep indicas, hybrids and even a lot of sativa dominant varieties vegging and especially from clone, which all of these are from clone. So I actually pull a tarp to turn the lights on in the middle of the night for the vegging plants and to block the light so it doesn't interfere with the flowering plants in the other GH. Tropical varieties or maybe varieties acclimated and bred will stay vegging here from spring to fall and it would have to be really tropical to veg as a clone with our light hours which I have had some varieties that would do that, but none of the varieties I have now will stay vegging without the supplemental light so I just have to turn the lights off to start flowering them which is the plan in about 6 weeks-ish. I just have the two GH's alternating veg and flower.

@maxmurder, HA HAHA HA HA HAHAHAH HA!

 

[jidoka]

The plants are direct in ground and this is the first run in this GH. It's 800 sq. ft. and it's a sawtooth style greenhouse that's about 13 ft. tall to the top of the roof vent. Right now there's 14 plants in the ground, but there will be 21 total in 3 rows of 7 so they each get about 5.7ft x 6.67ft.

I amended the soil with:
71 lbs Lilly Miller Super Sweet Lime
10 lbs Epsom Salts
I think I did about 50-55 lbs of CalPhos
0.05 lbs Borax
0.47 lbs Manganese Sulfate
0.6 lbs Copper Sulfate
1 lb Zinc Sulfate
about 80 lbs of basalt rock dust
about 24 cu. ft. of horse manure
and 7.25 lbs Diatomaceous Earth

Also I weed whacked the grasses that were growing there a couple times and let them dry out and tilled it all in with the amendments. And I know the CalPhos is a higher number than would show up on paper, but I don't think CalPhos breaks down fast enough the first year so I added about 50% more CalPhos, I believe, to what numbers I was shooting for.

So I must have missed a memo somewhere. I thought I was supposed to use lime if the pH is low. Or is CaCO3 the wrong kind of lime to use? I can top dress with gypsum too though.

The low CEC is why I decided to top dress with the rabbit manure and alfalfa hay. I'm guessing the CEC will bump up with a rise in pH and additional organic matter. We will see I guess. Thanks for the help Jidoka

So tell me what mechanism/chemistry/physics will convert hay and rabbit shot into Cec?

A few yrs ago I started with a lightweight mix at 9-10 cec. Today it is 45 and weighs 1/5 top soil. It is the absolute key to making these light medias work. No mulch or rabbit shit was ever involved. In fact unless r shit is super high N did you even move the bar on c:n. Mighta worked on field soil but?

 

[Lightweight]

So tell me what mechanism/chemistry/physics will convert hay and rabbit shot into Cec?

A few yrs ago I started with a lightweight mix at 9-10 cec. Today it is 45 and weighs 1/5 top soil. It is the absolute key to making these light medias work. No mulch or rabbit shit was ever involved. In fact unless r shit is super high N did you even move the bar on c:n. Mighta worked on field soil but?

I can't get super scientific on the method of organic matter raising CEC, but I thought OM eventually breaks down to colloidal humus and has exchange sites for both anions and cations so it raises CEC. I know it's not a fast process, but I don't think I'm going anywhere anytime soon so I can work on building my soil for the long haul.

I also thought as pH increases the CEC raises because more exchange sites are freed up as hydrogen gets knocked off. Is that not correct?

And I thought the basalt dust could help raise the CEC too. I'll get a better idea on the next soil test which I plan to send in in a few weeks.

This is all just normal field soil. There's no lightweight media mixed in. I was considering adding vermiculite or peat or something to raise the CEC, but I didn't want to add peat because it sounds like microbes waste their time on it outdoors and I have enough iron so I dismissed the vermiculite, though I might be exaggerating how much iron vermiculite has for it's volume, and there's not a lot of other options here. I could maybe have one of the ag. stores special order me something.

I haven't tested my rabbit manure, but from looking online at a few different test results of rabbit manure it generally did show to be high in nitrogen (for manure) and has a decent amount of phosphorous (for manure) and has a good P to K ratio.

I'm open to whatever input you have.

Also, why won't the calcium from the lime become available in this soil?

Thanks Jidoka for you input