-
ICMag with help from Landrace Warden and The Vault is running a NEW contest in November! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!
Advanced seed germination techniques
- Thread starter FlaCaEnt
- Start date
BigBozat
Member
Whew!
Um, not sure where to go with this...
Yes, I've seen Cox' diatribe, and yes I would have liked if he had cited sources for his claim that "several studies" failed to demonstrate that vitamin B1 treatments provide any type of growth response (which studies? lemme see 'em...) (BTW, what is his view re: sulfur that u disagree with?)
... yes, I've seen the 1996 paper - Thiamine (vitamin B1) seed treatment enhances germination and seedling growth of bean (Phaseolus vulgaris L.) exposed to soaking injury... it's one of the few references I've been able to find at all that support the notion of enhancing seed germination via B1/thiamine...
Yes, precisely, concern in re: antagonists (and interactions) are a part of the hesitancy...
And at the end of the day, I end where I started... ambiguity and, as you say, inconclusivity... given limited resources and potentially more promising alternatives to consider, thiamine just didn't make the cut [yet? who knows? maybe if I ever have sufficient beans to a side-by-side controlled germ test, I may find out... but, alas, I'm a poor man with too few beans to spare as it is, so until then...]
Um, not sure where to go with this...
Yes, I've seen Cox' diatribe, and yes I would have liked if he had cited sources for his claim that "several studies" failed to demonstrate that vitamin B1 treatments provide any type of growth response (which studies? lemme see 'em...) (BTW, what is his view re: sulfur that u disagree with?)
... yes, I've seen the 1996 paper - Thiamine (vitamin B1) seed treatment enhances germination and seedling growth of bean (Phaseolus vulgaris L.) exposed to soaking injury... it's one of the few references I've been able to find at all that support the notion of enhancing seed germination via B1/thiamine...
Yes, precisely, concern in re: antagonists (and interactions) are a part of the hesitancy...
And at the end of the day, I end where I started... ambiguity and, as you say, inconclusivity... given limited resources and potentially more promising alternatives to consider, thiamine just didn't make the cut [yet? who knows? maybe if I ever have sufficient beans to a side-by-side controlled germ test, I may find out... but, alas, I'm a poor man with too few beans to spare as it is, so until then...]
MJtheIndicator
Member
I'm don't know this from experience…
I'm don't know this from experience…
I'm don't know this from experience…
Pre 1970s - 1990s maybe the hip approach in gardening was B1 as an answer to root enhancement/starter etc.
Redundant?
MJtheIndicator
Member
I'm don't know this from experience…
I'm don't know this from experience…
Well, I tried in all this. I think its useful if managed within the higher phosphate cycle depending on what strain you feel will respond to it. Outside of a kick in the early cycle of veg I don't feel its crucial. Maybe to cereals and grains it is wise to genetically alter for the human diet's deficiency, but I don't think its a complete myth B1 is overkill. First 2 weeks in a controlled test and I would bet you could find a different brand of root system, exactly what advantage or difference is HEARSAY! ITS HEARSAY, SPECULATION AND BLIND DOGMA EMPTY RHETORIC!!!I'll go for it anyhow, who cares, lets do this.
I'm don't know this from experience…
My guess was his rant was to write off myths wholesale and sulfur got caught in the melee, on the surface he makes it seem useless or an afterthought, he loosely connects his assumptions surrounding sulfur to validate his hating on gypsum. He comes across like he's debunking 18th century methods and much of what he attempts to straighten isn't grounded very well. No harm, no foul. Just skeptical of his axe-grinding.
Well, I tried in all this. I think its useful if managed within the higher phosphate cycle depending on what strain you feel will respond to it. Outside of a kick in the early cycle of veg I don't feel its crucial. Maybe to cereals and grains it is wise to genetically alter for the human diet's deficiency, but I don't think its a complete myth B1 is overkill. First 2 weeks in a controlled test and I would bet you could find a different brand of root system, exactly what advantage or difference is HEARSAY! ITS HEARSAY, SPECULATION AND BLIND DOGMA EMPTY RHETORIC!!!I'll go for it anyhow, who cares, lets do this.
BigBozat
Member
Thanks...
Actually, I think we're probably pretty much on the same page... I, too, think there' sprolly some benefit to to B1 in early veg...
But that's a different thing than whether it benefits germination, *per se* (which is the topic of the thread after all)
St. Phatty
Active member
I have to read the whole thread and do a site search to find related threads.
But, I am very interested in learning to germ 10 to 14 year old seeds.
I always thought my seed storage techniques treated the seeds like sacred little infant plants.
But, then I realized, there have been times when my seeds were at 'ambient', indoor, and since I've been through some 80 to 100 degree summers without A/C, that means that some of my old seeds have too.
I'm hoping yield will decrease without falling off completely.
One thing I learned, just because a vigorous seedling can lift up small pebbles and pieces of bark in the process of growing out of the cotyledon, doesn't mean that an old less vigorous seedling can.
They need lots of TLC, no seedling boot camp.
But, I am very interested in learning to germ 10 to 14 year old seeds.
I always thought my seed storage techniques treated the seeds like sacred little infant plants.
But, then I realized, there have been times when my seeds were at 'ambient', indoor, and since I've been through some 80 to 100 degree summers without A/C, that means that some of my old seeds have too.
I'm hoping yield will decrease without falling off completely.
One thing I learned, just because a vigorous seedling can lift up small pebbles and pieces of bark in the process of growing out of the cotyledon, doesn't mean that an old less vigorous seedling can.
They need lots of TLC, no seedling boot camp.
I've done the same when soaking barley for sprouted seed teas. It definitely speeds up germination, even in new seed and longer to germinate things like carolina reaper peppers (can take uo to 60 days to germ... I've gotten sprouts in 6 days in my best case)... the germinating seeds give off growth hormones, growth enzymes, secondary metabolites and cytokinins.... all seeds will work. however, the seed coats contain growth inhibitors, for this reason the first days wash should be tossed and the second days wash water used as the soak. for excessively older seed, scarification helps a lot as well.
T
Terps
Hope you guys dont mind me asking a quick question..i have some stubborn ass seeds that wont germinate. I tried the usual methods with no success then i got some 9% H202 put a teaspoon in about 150ml of water, soaked the seeds overnight now they in tissue thats been moistened with the same solution they were soaked in but they still wont crack!
I got some giberrellic acid on the way as a last ditch attempt, how much should i dilute?
Cheers
I got some giberrellic acid on the way as a last ditch attempt, how much should i dilute?
Cheers
depends... I got the 90% Ga3... soluble in alcohol... I'd recommend the weaker water soluble kind... some seed have unusually thick seed coats... scarification can help... sand down the backside or "hinge" side of the seed so its thinner and the seed can push through... I've taken my thumbnails after 3-4 days soaking and cracked the seed.. not open... but it cracks. I replaced it in the cloth I used at the time and 1/10 actually sprouted... it was a seed known to have very thick coats... you very well may have seedlings trapped in cages... It's a rather tricky thing cracking the seed without really damaging the membrane holding the shell to the cotyledon, but it can be done.
T
Terps
I got the little kit thing off eBay which comes with iso alcohol and you dissolve a vial then mix it with 500 ml. They recommend 100 - 250 ppm for stubborn seeds does that sound about right?
T
Terps
Thanks Seaf0ur i'll give 250 ppm a try. The hydrogen peroxide soak didn't seem to work, think i may of made it a tad too strong.
i just put it in my mouth and use my teeth. 100x more precise imho.
What's the iso for? I’ve always used distilled water with GA3. It can take some time to thoroughly dissolve so mix ahead of time.
MJtheIndicator
Member
I appreciate this information as I've been putting together a soak solution and feel a hormonal jump start foundational. Have you tried it in conjunction with kelp? I'm considering something like barley or a closer relative for pre-soak while including kelp and possibly blue-green algae. However, I've ran across an article which addresses germination regarding the latter and it also includes some info loosely related to the earlier mention of Ethephon.
Effects of Spirulina platensis and C-phycocyanin on seed germination and seedling growth of two monocot and dicot plants
