T
Terps
The iso is to dissolve the Ga3 as its in powder form then mix it with water.
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Advanced seed germination techniques
- Thread starter FlaCaEnt
- Start date
The iso is to dissolve the Ga3 as its in powder form then mix it with water.
There's more to consider concerning putting the seeds into your mouth to crack them. The Dirt Doctor says that human or animal saliva is the best rooting hormone.
http://www.dirtdoctor.com/Cuttings-Starting-Plants_vq1120.htm
So if that's true, there's an added benefit to cracking seeds in your mouth. -granger
http://www.dirtdoctor.com/Cuttings-Starting-Plants_vq1120.htm
So if that's true, there's an added benefit to cracking seeds in your mouth. -granger
well. i'll tell you i lick the cut stems on my clones before i put them in the soil/rooting media. i didn't think it would help em grow or anything more like an antibiotic layer to protect them from airborne germs while i put them in the ground or dip em in the rooting powder i use sometimes.
I just reread the instructions for mixing GA3. The stuff I get is 90% and it is recommended to use distilled water. It does also mention that it can be mixed with a small amount of acetone or alcohol before adding water. Either way it is water soluble but takes longer to dissolve if using just water.
But you do know that you don't salivate antibiotics (not quite) and that your mouth is a hatchery for a broad set of bacteria and yeasts (and seldom other microbes as well)?
If you do want to apply something proper and anti-microbial you better poke the cuttings in your eyes cause tears are a lot cleaner (with luck near to sterile) and contain rather hight levels of anti-bacterial lysozyme.
True, saliva contains some of it too but mostly a broad set of enzymes such as amylases which attack the plant matter more easily than they do microbes.
Fortunately, the human mouth does contain mostly opportunistic and saprophytic microbes (in simpler words, no plant pathogens).
Apropos airborne, anaerobic bacteria are more problematic but these are often not airborne. They prefer air-free micro-environments like some hidden places between your teeth and gums
. Luckily, most dwell in soil and water...Anyway, licking (or spitting on) wounds done to plants is a practice which goes back to ancient shamanism and is still practised. It seems to have beneficial effects, maybe due some supernatural mumbo-jumbo (not judging here, just lacking proper words
), maybe due the enzymes which may or may not fight plant pathogens but most likely trigger the plants own immune response. After all, insect saliva is known to do exactly that and thereby also increases resistance against all sorts of micro-organisms and induces wound healing too.The usual microbes attacking fresh cuts are (most?) often moulds and oomycetes. Both should not exist in your mouth but at the same time are also pretty resistant to saliva enzymes. That said, it seems reasonable to assume that saliva on fresh cuts helps by improving the plants response against microbes and by speeding up the healing process.
Still, it's a double-edged sword and depending on enzymatic composition and buccal flora, which BTW are different for every person but astonishingly stable over time, might 'help', do nothing, or even increase infections.
Dang... forgot the 'on topic' comment:
There are no plant hormones in human saliva
. But some saliva enzymes help to break down the seed shell and/or break dormancy by digesting starch (one of the initial step in triggering germination). Both processes play roles in seeds which are meant to be eaten by animals before they germinate. But cannabis seeds aren't amongst those, I guess.
LoL! If that ain't a chemistry joke
.Seriously, the % tells you nothing. It all depends on the final concentration and used additives.
The 90% is likely to be 'pure', meaning that it contains only remnants of the purification process like other gibberellins and derivatives thereof. On the other hand, the 20% has most likely been 'laced' on purpose with something. A good manufacturer might have given that some thoughts and used an additive which increases GA solubility or at least speeds up the solubilising process
.
your spit is full of enzymes. which kill germs. or is it break down food? one of those...
Both .
What I tried to say was:
Your saliva is primarily for digestion but it also kills some microbes (mainly bacteria) BUT at the same time contains bacteria. That's why getting bitten by someone results quite easily in very ugly wound infections.
The difference regarding microbes is, that with saliva the focus is on bacteria and with plants it is on moulds and water moulds. The food digesting effects are more likely to help when spitting on plant wounds than the anti-bacterial activities. (But that's just me being nitpicking...)
Simply wanted to tell you that, should you've made good experience with spitting on freshly taken clones, you might keep that habit. But don't be astonished if you get blamed for recommending it cause it didn't work when others try it on their plants.
.What I tried to say was:
Your saliva is primarily for digestion but it also kills some microbes (mainly bacteria) BUT at the same time contains bacteria. That's why getting bitten by someone results quite easily in very ugly wound infections.
The difference regarding microbes is, that with saliva the focus is on bacteria and with plants it is on moulds and water moulds. The food digesting effects are more likely to help when spitting on plant wounds than the anti-bacterial activities. (But that's just me being nitpicking...)
Simply wanted to tell you that, should you've made good experience with spitting on freshly taken clones, you might keep that habit. But don't be astonished if you get blamed for recommending it cause it didn't work when others try it on their plants.
Hydrogen peroxide can but not necessarily does have positive effects on seed germination. Its main effect is on breaking seed dormancy. If the seeds are weak, this alone won't suffice
.Furthermore, H2O2 is highly concentration dependent; not enough has no effect, too much is harmful.
Nitrogen monoxide has been shown to reduce negative effects and shows synergistic effects regarding germination (both with regard to hydrogen peroxide). That's why some add nitrate or nitrite to the H2O2 solution. I tried nitroprusside sodium (one of the best direct NO donors) and had a positive outcome. Again NO is highly concentration dependent!
For seed germination in scientific studies, H2O2 is often used at about 20 mM and nitroprusside sodium at 0.2 mM
.You might find THIS FREE ACCESS ARTICLE helpful.
BigBozat
Member
Summary - Plant hormone interactions during seed dormancy release and germination
Summary - Plant hormone interactions during seed dormancy release and germination
FWIW, found this to be a nice jumping off point for thinking about advanced germination techniques:
http://seedbiology.de/pdf/SSR0150281.pdf
Summary - Plant hormone interactions during seed dormancy release and germination
FWIW, found this to be a nice jumping off point for thinking about advanced germination techniques:
http://seedbiology.de/pdf/SSR0150281.pdf
IntelliGeneS
Member
Interesting, thanks.
N
NewAgeGenetics
anyone tried plagron seedbooster drops?
BigBozat
Member
Have not tried...
sorbitol/sugar, cellulase enzymes, pectinase enzymes
Pectinase enzymes have long commonly been used in the fruit industries to speed up extraction of juice. Wine-making industry has been using it since the 60s. Basically, the enzymes degrade plant matter (specifically, pectin, which is found in plant cell walls). extracted from fungi such as Aspergillus niger.
Cellulases break down the cellulose molecule into simple sugars (again, with the plant degrading).
I'm assuming the sugars are plant food for the emerging seedling...
If applied directly to the seed coat, makes sense to me that it might be effective at expediting germination of viable seeds. I don't know about being effective at, e.g., improving the frequency with which seeds successfully pop (as opposed to the speed at which germination completes, once popped).
I'd bet O-O has a deeper take...
i'm still having a shit time with germinating my seeds. i don't fucking get it. even going back to the old schoo l paper towel method. the fuckin seeds crack, or start to crack and some even show the beginning of a taproot. i plant em. and then nothing comes up. i have a heated dome, and heated, unheated, in the dark, in the light, nothing. i've just lost a lot of my most valuable seeds and at this point i'm becoming quite irate. just lost my last 5 berry sour cream. those were fucking one off's
just tried superthrive on some 30+ random seeds i don't care about i bet those all sprout, but the shit i actually want gets turned into fungus food.
just tried superthrive on some 30+ random seeds i don't care about i bet those all sprout, but the shit i actually want gets turned into fungus food.
I wouldn't use sorbitol as it isn't recognised as sugar, hence no sugar response. It may be metabolised by plants but it's mostly only increasing osmotic pressure. It has it's values for boron application but that's beyond germination....
I'm quite critical with enzymes. As you said, they digest plant matter and may attack the cell walls of living cells and that ain't good. For some plant seeds, enzymes are indeed used to soften the shell but is this really necessary with cannabis? Isn't it easier to just break them open if need be?
My gut feeling tells me that pectinase is the last one I'd try because it's predominant in cell walls of younger tissue (seedling) whereas the seed shell contains more cellulose and lignin. It's the latter which makes the shell so hard and which is more difficult to digest and break down. If I wanted to add an enzyme, I'd go with the one closest to nature: Amylase, which is released by the aleurone layer and breaks down starch into sugar. It's arguably the most important function of the aleurone layer. The latter is also the first 'organ' to suffer from old age.
I'm quite critical with enzymes. As you said, they digest plant matter and may attack the cell walls of living cells and that ain't good. For some plant seeds, enzymes are indeed used to soften the shell but is this really necessary with cannabis? Isn't it easier to just break them open if need be?
My gut feeling tells me that pectinase is the last one I'd try because it's predominant in cell walls of younger tissue (seedling) whereas the seed shell contains more cellulose and lignin. It's the latter which makes the shell so hard and which is more difficult to digest and break down. If I wanted to add an enzyme, I'd go with the one closest to nature: Amylase, which is released by the aleurone layer and breaks down starch into sugar. It's arguably the most important function of the aleurone layer. The latter is also the first 'organ' to suffer from old age.
That's what we discussed in the Chocolate Thai revival. The issue is not initial germination but subsequent growth or rather lack thereof.
The only things I can think of are listed in the other thread. It's basically B vitamins (including pseudo-vitamins), sugar (1-3%!), cytokinins, and/or in vitro culture.
Maybe later this year I find the time to play around with the Armenian landrace seeds which are a PITA to get going and have the same issue.
What you might try is to artificially age some trash seeds. Dip them in boiling water or hold them under an infrared heater. This will first damage the outer layer (the aforementioned aleurone layer) and let's you simulate old age. That way, you can try without losing
.
excuse me for fucking in here, i have a bad mouth today. but i know a little bit about germination
sugars i do not really know about, so OO or someone if you can use this knowledge? maybe! i'm not paying too much attention beyond "i can say something!"
trehalose!!!!
okay, i know it's like tree, ha, lose, but trehalose is some kinda fancy sugar used by tardigrades and resurrection plants... things that regenerate tissue... i guess health nuts buy it hoping it will make them live forever and have the energy of wasps..
again, excuse me for interjecting so floridly, but if you're talking sugars and venerable seeds, i become happy and type.
sugars i do not really know about, so OO or someone if you can use this knowledge? maybe! i'm not paying too much attention beyond "i can say something!"
trehalose!!!!
okay, i know it's like tree, ha, lose, but trehalose is some kinda fancy sugar used by tardigrades and resurrection plants... things that regenerate tissue... i guess health nuts buy it hoping it will make them live forever and have the energy of wasps..
again, excuse me for interjecting so floridly, but if you're talking sugars and venerable seeds, i become happy and type.
Trehalose might work but not in the way waveguide thinks . Most resurrection plants are actually half to pretty much dead... anyway, the trehalose in there is an osmoprotectant which protects proteins from drying out too much when drying out (please read again ) and hence, they remain 'viable' and so does the 'plant' which usually isn't a plant but just a 'bud'. Your seeds don't need that as they float in excess water after they've been on the dry without trehalose. Adding too much trehalose afterwards actually protects the water from the seeds (osmotic stress and that's not good).
Adding trehalose will decrease the seeds energy and free sugar content, they will germinate even less and starve to death even with all the starch around! There's a trick with trehalose and adding sugar with it (way more sugar than trehalose!) restores the depleted energy and causes a pronounced positive sugar signalling. The latter in turn increases germination (which, as we know, works fine with your seeds) but alas, likely won't promote initial growth. But it might be worth a try. Trehalose can also be used as natural sweetener for diabetics, it's about half as sweet as sugar . Still waiting to get my hands on it to try some stuff...
. Most resurrection plants are actually half to pretty much dead... anyway, the trehalose in there is an osmoprotectant which protects proteins from drying out too much when drying out (please read again ) and hence, they remain 'viable' and so does the 'plant' which usually isn't a plant but just a 'bud'. Your seeds don't need that as they float in excess water after they've been on the dry without trehalose. Adding too much trehalose afterwards actually protects the water from the seeds (osmotic stress and that's not good).Adding trehalose will decrease the seeds energy and free sugar content, they will germinate even less and starve to death even with all the starch around! There's a trick with trehalose and adding sugar with it (way more sugar than trehalose!) restores the depleted energy and causes a pronounced positive sugar signalling. The latter in turn increases germination (which, as we know, works fine with your seeds) but alas, likely won't promote initial growth. But it might be worth a try. Trehalose can also be used as natural sweetener for diabetics, it's about half as sweet as sugar
. Still waiting to get my hands on it to try some stuff...
